Regardless, I think you had the base HP for Air Speeders just right to begin with.

I call it a win!

😁

53 minutes ago, salamar_dree said:

Regardless, I think you had the base HP for Air Speeders just right to begin with.

I call it a win!

😁

You want to try the at-te to go with the laat/c? I expect Walkers to need a lot of revision.

And the bomber speeder from stay on target.

8 minutes ago, EliasWindrider said:

You want to try the at-te to go with the laat/c? I expect Walkers to need a lot of revision.

I posted the AT-TE right before the LAAT/i revision. It's on the previous page sandwiched between some other stuff. 😁

It actually came out okay because of the Gunship Hull.

12 hours ago, salamar_dree said:

AT-TE

Sil 4, Spd 1, Handling -2, Def 0, Armor 4
HTT 40, SST 35

Crew 8, Passengers 20, Enc 40

Weapons 5, Custom HP 2

Walker Frame (HP 10+1, HTT 15+1+24, Enc 5+, Crew 1+1+2+4, Pass 0+; Larger Scope, Reinforced Construction, Extra HP, Passenger Quarters ×5, Integrated Improvement [Pass])

Single Ion Coil (-2 HP, Spd 1, SST 8+12+3+12; Incr SST by 4 ×3, Fine-Tuned Circuits ×3)

Gunship Hull (+8 HP, Armor 3+1, Handling -2; Armor Increase, Add 4 HP & double crew ×2)

Assembly (+1 HP, Integrated Systems [Reinforced Frame ×1])

Mothership Docking Clamp (0 HP)

Auxillary Generator ×3 (-6 HP)
Reinforced Frame ×6 total (-10 HP)

Weapons ×5, Custom HP ×2 (-7 HP)

Needs 5 more HP, or more options to increase HTT and SST.

However, the LAAT/i might work better with the Gunship Hull, as it could increase the HP and Crew with mods (potentially 8 more HP).

Whichs means you might not need to tweak things as much. You might even be able to leave the Airspeeder HP at 2+(Sil×2).

Let's give the Walker frame the special feature that reinforced frame costs 1 hp instead of 2 hp, and increase it's enc to 10.

AT-TE stats https://star-wars-rpg-ffg.fandom.com/wiki/All_Terrain_Tactical_Enforcer

Crew: 1 x 2(larger scope) x 4 (gunship hull + 8 hp)=8

Passengers: (0x2+2+2+2+2+2)x2(integrated improvements)=20

So frame needs 9 advantage or 7 advantage +1 triumph or 5 advantage + 2 triumph

Hull needs 1 cargo pod, 1 layered plating, 1 hp, 1 integrated systems for auxiliary generator (5 advantage and 1 triumph)

Single ion coil + 3x fined tuned circuits +3x mod to increase sst by sil

After frame hull & engine we have 17 hp, 15 HTT, 27 SST, 40 enc

use 4hp for 2 auxiliary generators to bring hp to 13 and SST to 35.

We need 25 htt, but settle for 24 so 6x reinforced frame

So we're at 39 htt and 7 hp

Weapons and customization hp =7

Need 1 hp life support (these things can work in space)

And you can get the hp from assembly

So it differs by I think having a speed of 2 and 39 rather than 40 HTT.

Edit: trade down speed from 2 to 1 for +2 hp, drop the integrated systems and purchase the auxiliary generator for 2 hp.

Do you want to try an AT-AT and AT-ST and those little 1 person walkers from the prequels?

I'm thinking of giving a Walker the ability to add 2 hp by reducing it's speed from 2 to 1.

Eyeballing the AT-AT relative to the AT-TE

At-AT stats https://star-wars-rpg-ffg.fandom.com/wiki/All_Terrain_Armoured_Transport

Need another integrated improvements , 3 cargo pods instead of 1, 2 layered platings instead of 1, 2 weapons instead of 5, so 3 less hp needed, trade the speed down for another 2 hp, and only use gunship +Sil hp

Edit: Removed drop the hp from assembly because the at-te has 2 customization ho and the at-te has 3.

You get 4 crew instead of 5.... the at-at seems like a much less sophisticated walker than the AT-TE

19 minutes ago, EliasWindrider said:

I'm thinking of giving a Walker the ability to add 2 hp by reducing it's speed from 2 to 1.

Sounds good. I like it.

BTW: The AT-AT has a Handling of -3. None of the frames that can apply start that low.

2 minutes ago, salamar_dree said:

Sounds good. I like it.

BTW: The AT-AT has a Handling of -3. None of the frames that can apply start that low.

Flies like a brick -1 handling on the hull crafting table (2 threat) ... the designer must have had 2 ranks of the shipwright talent creative design

Glancing at AT-RT stats https://star-wars-rpg-ffg.fandom.com/wiki/All_Terrain_Reconnaissance_Transport

Using elegant design, raceship hull, and single ion coil gets you in the close vicinity of it. Hp needs to be checked... btw it should have folding design.

Glancing at AT-ST stats https://star-wars-rpg-ffg.fandom.com/wiki/All_Terrain_Scout_Transport

seems pretty easy to get to as well hp needs to be checked though

AT-AT

Sil 4, Spd 1, Handling -3, Def 0, Armor 5,
HTT 40, SST 35

Crew 5, Passengers 40, Enc 100
Weapons: 2
Customization HP: 3

Walker Frame (10+1 HP, HTT 15+1, Crew 2+2+4, Passengers 0+10+10+20, Enc 5+90; Extra HP, Larger Scope, Reinforced Construction, Passengers Quarters ×5, Integrated Improvement [Double Passengers])

Single Ion Coil (-2 HP, Spd 1, SST 8+12+3, Increase System Strain by Sil ×3, Fine-Tuned Circuits ×3)

Gunship Hull (+9 HP, Armor 3+, Handling -2-1, Add Sil HP & Double Crew ×2, Cargo Pod ×3, Extra HP, Integrated System [Auxillary Generator], Flies Like a Brick)

Assembly (+1 HP, Extra HP)

Weapons & Custom HP (-5 HP)
Reinforced Frame ×6 (-6 HP)
Passenger Berth ×2 (-6 HP)
Auxillary Generator ×3 (-4 HP)

Limit Max Speed to 1 instead of 2 (+2 HP)

With your new mods (1 HP Reinforced Frame, and Extra HP for reducing max Spd to 1), this build works, except for the Crew being 8 instead of 5.

Something to consider would be adding Officers Quarters, Passengers Quarters and Integrated Improvement to the Assemble table as well (with the caveat to both descriptions for Frame & Assembly that it can only be taken once per vehicle).

This would take some of the Advantage strain off of the Frame roll.

3 hours ago, salamar_dree said:

AT-AT

Sil 4, Spd 1, Handling -3, Def 0, Armor 5,
HTT 40, SST 35

Crew 5, Passengers 40, Enc 100
Weapons: 2
Customization HP: 3

Walker Frame (10+1 HP, HTT 15+1, Crew 2+2+4, Passengers 0+10+10+20, Enc 5+90; Extra HP, Larger Scope, Reinforced Construction, Passengers Quarters ×5, Integrated Improvement [Double Passengers])

Single Ion Coil (-2 HP, Spd 1, SST 8+12+3, Increase System Strain by Sil ×3, Fine-Tuned Circuits ×3)

Gunship Hull (+9 HP, Armor 3+, Handling -2-1, Add Sil HP & Double Crew ×2, Cargo Pod ×3, Extra HP, Integrated System [Auxillary Generator], Flies Like a Brick)

Assembly (+1 HP, Extra HP)

Weapons & Custom HP (-5 HP)
Reinforced Frame ×6 (-6 HP)
Passenger Berth ×2 (-6 HP)
Auxillary Generator ×3 (-4 HP)

Limit Max Speed to 1 instead of 2 (+2 HP)

With your new mods (1 HP Reinforced Frame, and Extra HP for reducing max Spd to 1), this build works, except for the Crew being 8 instead of 5.

Something to consider would be adding Officers Quarters, Passengers Quarters and Integrated Improvement to the Assemble table as well (with the caveat to both descriptions for Frame & Assembly that it can only be taken once per vehicle).

This would take some of the Advantage strain off of the Frame roll.

If on the frame roll you go for the 2nd integrated improvements rather than the 1 extra hp (2 advantage for either), you get to 40 passengers, avoid the need for 2 passenger berths, thereby avoiding the need for the second + sil hp from the gunship hull, thereby ending with 4 crew rather than 8 (4 is closer to 5 than 8), and making the hull crafting check a little easier because you don't need the extra 2 advantage for an hp on that check.

Something I've been thinking of is having passengers round down when halving, and crew rounds up when halving, then giving a sil 3 walker 1 passenger, which would save an hp on this and the at-te walker frame (you only need 10 advantage or 8 and 1 triump or 6 and 2 triumph) . It also seems realistic as a sil 1 air speeder (elegant design) would end up with 1 passenger rather than 2 (you end up with something like a small speeder bike with 1 person in front of the other which is kind of justifiable... 2 passengers aren't)

@salamar_dree

does this have everything I promised on the last 2 pages?

http://www.mediafire.com/file/2w9oicv7s63dhmg/TheNubianDesignCollectivesWholeVehicleCraftingHandbook.pdf/file

also there's a lot of TBD for passengers enc etc of the larger ships... did I resolve any of them earlier in the thread and not update them?

I added mass production ready to the assembly table too (that's something that I had promised a long time ago).

I replaced the files on mediafire so the first post should now link to the latest version.

@EliasWindrider

Looks good except for these:

I wasn't sure if you were going to allow Integrated Improvements more than once for Airspeeders (and/or Walkers).

The Modular Pod Docking Clamp was going to be revised to Silhouette -1.

P.S.: Have you had thoughts on pricing for the MPDC and Mothership Docking Clamps?

1 hour ago, salamar_dree said:

@EliasWindrider

Looks good except for these:

I wasn't sure if you were going to allow Integrated Improvements more than once for Airspeeders (and/or Walkers).

The Modular Pod Docking Clamp was going to be revised to Silhouette -1.

P.S.: Have you had thoughts on pricing for the MPDC and Mothership Docking Clamps?

I think that's spelled out explicitly under the special section of airspeeders and walkers (walkers go onto the next page), perhaps you have a suggestion for alternative phrasing.

Yup I forgot about the modular pod docking clamp hp cost reduction, thanks.

I also forgot to give the basic walker 1 passenger and the frame crafting table integrated improvements wasn't changed to round crew up and passengers down.

No thoughts on pricing it's a big TBD other than setting up a big least squares problem with hundreds of official ships with crafting details in the basis function to determine the price of every option. And then rounding the solut components to nice numbers.

@EliasWindrider

Sorry, I missed the Integrated Improvements note in ther entries, so that's all good!

The only suggestion might be to either bold them, or give them their own paragraphs. Both are a little questionable from a layout perspective, so leaving them as is works.

😁

My memory which may not be accurate or maybe there was errata that this was sil 3

https://star-wars-rpg-ffg.fandom.com/wiki/PTB-625_Heavy_Bomber

Can you try this, the at-rt, and the at-st?

Just checked the errata. The PTB-625 is Sil 4.

And it's next on my list to stat. 😁

I'll work on the AT-ST and AT-RT after that!

PTB-625 Heavy Bomber

Sil 4, Spd 2, Handling -2, Def 0, Armor 3,
HTT 15, SST 15

Airspeeder, Sensors: Medium, Crew 5,
Passenger 1, Enc 100
Weapons: 4
Custom HP: 2

Airspeeder Frame (10 HP, HTT 15, Crew 1+3+1, Passenger 3+9-1, Cargo 5; Larger Scope×2, Officers Quarters [+1 Crew/-1 Passenger],

Note: I'm going to assume that you can always reduce the passengers by any amount without spending Advantage. There is no mechanical benefit to doing so.

Single Ion Coil (-2 HP, Spd 1+1, SST 8+4+3; Increase Spd by 1, Increase SST by Sil; Fine-Tuned Circuits ×3)

Basic Hull (Armor 1+2, Handling -2; )

Sensors (-1 HP)
Life Support (-1 HP)
Weapons ×4 (-4 HP)
Custom HP ×2 (-2 HP)

This is relatively easy to build, just using the base HP.

AT-ST

Sil 3, Spd 2, Handling +0, Def 0, Armor 3,
HTT 15, SST 12

Crew 2, Pass 0, Enc 18
Weapons: 3
Customization HP: 1

Walker Frame (8 HP, HTT 10, Crew 1, Pass 0, Enc 10, Reinforced Construction ×2, Officers Quarters ×1)

Single Ion Coil (-2 HP, Spd 1+1, SST 6+6, Incr Spd ×1, Incr SST by Sil ×2)

Basic Hull (Armor 1+2, Handling -2+1+1, Incr Armor ×2, Incr Handling ×1; Maneuvering Fins ×1, Cargo Pod ×1)

Reinforced Frame ×1 (-1 HP)
Weapons & Custom HP (-4 HP)

Actually had 1 HP left over!
(Only uses 7 HP)

However, by dropping an Incr SST engine mod and instead adding +1 HP to any sep that allows it, you can add an Auxillary Generator to have the HP come out just right.

Simple build!

The only thing off is 20 cargo vs. 18.

AT-RT

Sil 2, Spd 3, Handling +1, Def 1/0, Armor 0,
HTT 4, SST 8

Crew 1, Pass 0, Enc 7
Weapons: 1
Customization HP: 2

Walker Frame (6 HP, HTT 5-2+1, Crew 1, Pass 0, Enc 10, Elegant Design, Reinforced Construction ×1)

Ion Turbine Engine (-3 HP, Spd 1+1+1, SST 5+5-2, Def 1/0, Incr Spd ×1, Incr SST ×2, Fine-Tuned Circuits ×1)

Race Ship Hull (-1 HP, Armor 1, Handling +1)

Assembly (+1 HP, Extra HP)

Weapons & Custom HP (-3 HP)

Issues:
Enc = 10 vs. 7 (Minor, not worth altering.)

Armor 1 vs. 0 (Who would take Armor 0 over 1? Perhaps the Basic and Race Ship Hulls should start at 0 and have an additional +1 Armor mod?).

Or: It has an "Exposed Cockpit". Perhaps make this a mod applicable to non-spaceships. Trades 1 Armor for +1 HP.

Upon further reflection about Ambiguous Silhouette, I think it should either be a 2 Triumph option, or removed altogether.

I realized that it could add 5 or more HP for 2 Advantage (for Elegant Design) + 3 Advantage.

Way overpowered, considering a single +1 HP (limit 1) is 2 Advantage.

(The fact that I really wanted to keep it as written is reason enough to change it.)

5 hours ago, salamar_dree said:

Upon further reflection about Ambiguous Silhouette, I think it should either be a 2 Triumph option, or removed altogether.

I realized that it could add 5 or more HP for 2 Advantage (for Elegant Design) + 3 Advantage.

Way overpowered, considering a single +1 HP (limit 1) is 2 Advantage.

(The fact that I really wanted to keep it as written is reason enough to change it.)

What about ambiguously large silhouette at 1 triumph and no requirement for elegant design but now it does

ambiguously large silhouette: This frame is only slightly smaller than the next larger silhouette, and its characteristcs are somewhere in between the two size classes. Effect: double crew and passengers, add sil htt and sil hp.

(It's mutually exclusive with deceptive advertising) maybe deceptive advertising should be renamed to ambiguously small silhouette and be made generally available.

I'm thinking of the kst-100 for this (because it's a very large sil 3)

https://star-wars-rpg-ffg.fandom.com/wiki/KST-100_Kestrel_Light_Executive_Transport

Transport frame with elegant design, ambiguous silhouette, extra hard point; has 2 crew, 4 passengers, 16 hp, 18 htt, 20 enc (4 advantage, 1 triumph)

Ion turbine engine, 3x enhanced output, 1x fined tuned circuits, (8 advantage, or 6 advantage & triumph)

speed 4, 11 sst, def 1/-/-/0, 13 hp, 40 enc,

Modded for 3x increase sst by sil, 1x increase def by 1 in 1 arc

20 sst, def 1/-/-/1

Transport hull 2x cargo pods, 3x maneuver fins (8 advantage, or 6 advantage and a triumph): 1 armor, +1 handling

Modded to increase armor by 1, 2x increase consumables by VSL days (20 days)

Assembly: extra hardpoint (2 advantage) => 14 hp

2x reinforced frame => 10 hp, 24 htt

Life support modded 3x => 9 hp & +40 days consumables = 60 days consumables (2 months)

Dedicated: cargo bay -1hp (+30 enc => 70 enc)

Weapon -1 hp

Hyperdrive -1 hp

Navicomputer -1hp

Sensors -1 hp

Customization: 4hp

This only misses RAW stats by 1 point of htt (RAW is 25 htt)

15 minutes ago, EliasWindrider said:

What about ambiguous silhouette at 1 triumph but now it does

ambiguous silhouette add sil/2 round down crew, sil htt; up to (sil/2) round down passengers

I'm thinking of the kst-100 for this (because it's a very large sil 3)

https://star-wars-rpg-ffg.fandom.com/wiki/KST-100_Kestrel_Light_Executive_Transport

Transport frame with elegant design, ambiguous silhouette, extra hard point, 1x passenger quarters, has 2 crew, 4 passengers, 13 hp, 18 htt, 20 enc (5 advantage, 1 triumph)

Ion turbine engine, 3x enhanced output, 1x fined tuned circuits, (6 advantage)

speed 4, 11 sst, def 1/-/-/0, 10 hp

Modded for 3x increase sst by sil, 1x increase def by 1 in 1 arc

20 sst, def 1/-/-/1

Transport hull 3x maneuver fins integrate system (reinforced frame)(6 advantage, 1 triumph) : 1 armor, +1 handling, 21 htt

Modded to increase armor by 1, 2x increase consumables by VSL days (20 days)

Assembly: extra hardpoint (2 advantage) => 11 hp

reinforced frame => 9 hp, 24 htt

Life support modded 3x => 8 hp & +40 days consumables = 60 days consumables (2 months)

Weapon -1 hp

Hyperdrive -1 hp

Navicomputer -1hp

Sensors -1 hp

Customization: 4hp

I like that much better!

On the frame crafting table add the 1 advantage crafting upgrade.

Ambiguously small silhouette : this frame is only slightly larger than the next smaller silhouette and its characteristics are somewhere in between the two size classes. Effect : halve the crew (round up) and passengers (round down) and determine enc from cargo pods and bays as if the frame were 1 silhouette smaller.

On the frame crafting table have a 1 triumph crafting upgrade

Ambiguously large silhouette : This frame is only slightly smaller than the next larger silhouette, and its characteristcs are somewhere in between the two size classes. Effect : double crew and passengers, add sil htt and sil hp.

Larger scope is 2 advantage, elegant design is 3 advantage.

On the assembly crafting table add

A 1 triumph crafting upgrade.

Deceptive advertising: after assembly is complete you may reduce the listed silhouette of a vehicle with an ambiguously small silhouette by 1 or increase the listed silhouette of a vehicle with an ambiguously large silhouette by 1.

@salamar_dree

On each of the 3 core component crafting tables I'm going to add a 1 triumph crafting upgrade

Mass Producible: The character devises a manufacturing process that allows the exact reproduction of this core component (including crafting upgrades and defects but not modifications) with simple success at base difficulty (difficulty reduction from Schematic applies to reproduction of the core component and modifications to it by anyone with the schematics and manufacturing process which are transferable). No additional crafting upgrades/defects can be applied to a mass producible core component during reproduction, neither can silhouette be altered. The character may still apply normal crafting rules to different core components with the same core component template.

on the the assembly table there is a 1 triumph crafting upgrade.

Mass Production : The character devises a manufacturing process that allows exact reproducion of the assembly (including crafting upgrades and defects but not modifications of attachments) of 3 specific Mass Producible core components (consisting of a frame, engine, and hull) with simple success at base difficulty (difficulty reduction from Assembly Plans applies). No additional crafting upgrades/defects can be applied during the reproduced assembly. The character may still attempt a different assembly of these Mass Reproducible core components using the normal crafting rules.

This suggests a corporation development process like repeated crafting attempts to drive difficulty to simple through schematics, then repeated crafting attempts against simple difficulty to get the advantage and triumph necessary for the crafting upgrades including Mass Producible for each core components. Once all core components are Mass Reproducible, repeated assembly attempts to drive the difficulty down to simple and then to get the crafting upgrades including Mass Production.

At that point you only need to succeed at simple difficulty for those 4 checks, but having excluded the modifications allows for other "manufacturing defects" which is realistic and is kind of necessary because modification of a core component takes place after it is crafted so there's no mods applied by the time the crafting check takes place, but the difficulty of those mods is reduced as per schematic.