In the document, the ship's have the following prices:

Sil 6 frame is 1,000,000 credits.

Sil 7 frame is 2,500,000 credits.

Sil 8 frame is 10,000,000 credits.

So, maybe use those to develop the frame prices for space stations?

Maybe Sil 9 for 25,000,000 credits, and Sil 10 for 100,000,000 credits.

Just spit-balling here.

On 11/13/2018 at 9:34 PM, salamar_dree said:

In the document, the ship's have the following prices:

Sil 6 frame is 1,000,000 credits.

Sil 7 frame is 2,500,000 credits.

Sil 8 frame is 10,000,000 credits.

So, maybe use those to develop the frame prices for space stations?

Maybe Sil 9 for 25,000,000 credits, and Sil 10 for 100,000,000 credits.

Just spit-balling here.

I kind of think that an immobile station should be cheaper than a mobile starship of the same silhouette but a mobile "space station" should cost more than a space ship of the same silhouette. And I could do a "see description" or "varies by silhouette" for the table entry.

Yeah, that sounds good.

The immobile space station can have "Speed limited to 0" as a feature.

I like the "Varies by Silhouette".

The difference is a "mobile platform" crafting upgraded that doubles the cost and increases max speed to 1 (you can apply high output ion turbines to get it to 2, push the specs, full throttle do apply)

That works. What kind of Advantage/Triumph cost are you thinking about?

6 hours ago, salamar_dree said:

That works. What kind of Advantage/Triumph cost are you thinking about?

1 triumph or 3 advantage

I've been working through the design document and I've read across some questions, and possibly some ideas.

(and I am a noob here...so noob that other noobs are vets by comparison....)

1) where is base handling set? I would think it'd be set by either frame...or after hull application...but nothing in the document sets the base for modification. - as far as I can see it can only go positive? what am I missing? (is that it is set by the hull?)

2) given how I am seeing engines work, should those go in after the hull? may not matter...

3) would highly automated include any of the droid brains in it? (astrogation, pilot, gunnery)? or could as mods on highly automated? the description (and canon) would indicate it could be an option. additionally, another mod could include a ships engineering droid/astromech. what about the slave circuit?

4) new item: cargo handling system 1 HP, efficiently load/offload cargo. cargo holds *might* include this...but might not either.

5) on the bays and such...I am looking at them and thinking some are overkill at scale. maybe a half bay (half med bay/ half vehicle bay etc). the thought here is you can have space for a bacta tank and a automed bed along with a wall mounted medical droid and have most of the functionality of a full med bay, but not be able to operate on a dozen at a time. for vehicles this could be seen as a bare garage as opposed to a pit race refit facility. a half repair bay could hold tools and such, but not the vehicle. a half hanger could be external docking clamps (but affect shielding or hyperdrive travel times)..and so forth.

6) ambiguous wording for cargo pods under spending when crafting hulls - is this free, when purchasing a cargo hold, or must be purchased separately? (if so, cost?

anyhow still crunching through this. thanks for the good document.

@Kencyr

I'm not the creator of the document, but I can help with a few of these:

1) Base Handling is a function of the ship's Hull (listed with each Hull desciption).

2) Components should be done in order. Frame - Engines - Hull - Assembly.

3) No, but nothing would stop you from purchasing the Droid Brain Attachments.

4) EliasWindrider might consider adding that.

5) Again, something EliasWindrider would have to consider.

6) Cargo Pods are free, other than the Advantage cost presented in the table.

Cheers!

6 minutes ago, salamar_dree said:

@Kencyr

I'm not the creator of the document, but I can help with a few of these:

1) Base Handling is a function of the ship's Hull (listed with each Hull desciption).

2) Components should be done in order. Frame - Engines - Hull - Assembly.

3) No, but nothing would stop you from purchasing the Droid Brain Attachments.

4) EliasWindrider might consider adding that.

5) Again, something EliasWindrider would have to consider.

6) Cargo Pods are free, other than the Advantage cost presented in the table.

Cheers!

@salamar_dree answered correctly

4) if there were game mechanics behind "quickly" I might consider it but as a general principle I don't make narrative fluff attachments without game mechanics, and honestly loading and unloading cargo should be handled narratively in my opinion

5) docking clamps a free by RAW and a repair bay is my idea of half a hanger bay. These are dedicated bays, as in significant parts of ships. Anyone can always just buy a bacta tank and medical droid and keep them on their ship. Scale is what makes it important enough to be a function the ship was designed to fulfill

@EliasWindrider

There are still quite a few TBD's in the document.

What still needs work?

(It might take me a while, but can I help with anything in particular?)

20 hours ago, salamar_dree said:

@EliasWindrider

There are still quite a few TBD's in the document.

What still needs work?

(It might take me a while, but can I help with anything in particular?)

costing is the big TBD. and hard points, passengers, crew. basically stuff that needs to be tuned to be inline with official vehicles.

I should have some time between Dec 24 and Jan 1 to work on this.

I have a question.

When two mods that double crew size are applied, how do they stack?

For instance: If I have a starfighter with a crew of one, I double the crew size to two. If I apply a further double crew mod, does the crew size go from

A: two to three, or

B: two to four?

1 hour ago, Prometheus878 said:

I have a question.

When two mods that double crew size are applied, how do they stack?

For instance: If I have a starfighter with a crew of one, I double the crew size to two. If I apply a further double crew mod, does the crew size go from

A: two to three, or

B: two to four?

2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, 2048, 4096, 8192, 16384, ...

Those are the powers of 2 I can rattle off (excepting 1 which is anything to the zeroth power)

10 minutes ago, EliasWindrider said:

2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, 2048, 4096, 8192, 16384, ...

Those are the powers of 2 I can rattle off (excepting 1 which is anything to the zeroth power)

Thank you, that's how I thought it would work.

12 minutes ago, Prometheus878 said:

Thank you, that's how I thought it would work.

You're welcome. It has to work that way to capture the variety of performance in officially statted starship (it's also simpler). The encumbrance provided by cargo b"ays are powers of 3 or 4 (bulk freighter only) rounded to "nice numbers" and tabulated because even without rounding powers of anything other than 10 or 2 (and even then only low powers of 2) are useful in ruleset intended for the masses

Thanks for the work put into this set of rules, I have been finding them very useful. Although a few things are unclear that I think could use clarification. First, although the section on silhouette and speed mentions attachments, it doesn't mention mods. Can an engine be modded once installed to surpass the normal silhouette cap for speed? Second, the engine profiles seem a bit bizarre in that due to the nature of silhouettes and speed, a competent crafting character would most likely always choose low end engines that are cheaper, faster, and easier to make and simply applying more advantageous results due to those factors (Either due to lower difficulty, or the lower time meaning more opportunities to repeat the roll looking for a good one). Third, could we perhaps seem some guidance on refit costs? At the very least refits should point to the construction table as a starting point, currently it says you can refit an engine but nothing beyond the hardpoint cost. And beyond engines, some PC's might find a badly damaged ship and want to refit the nav computer or hyperdrive, by RAW attachments and modding them have some suggestions but in the case of a ship refit of removing the nav computer to replace with a new one, it would be nice to have some suggestions. Fourth, the sensor attachment doesn't indicate if refitting a ship would refund a hard point. Our crafted ships could take the close range sensors for 0 hardpoints, but say I want to refit my YT-1300 with the sensor option provided, it would be a straight upgrade after mods (allowing my ship to reach extreme sensor range) is this intended?

First. Short answer is "no." Modding an engine was deliberately left off the list, it's part of starship construction and simply delaying a mod to an engine does NOT let you bypass the limitations on starship construction. Besides which you can't do that for stock ships and parity/a level playing field is a design goal, I admit to selfishly deviating from that design goal slightly because I wanted to make it possible for a sil 5 ship (patrol ship) to punch it. However, modding an engine after a ship's construction and could increase within it's normal limits (for EXAMPLE increasing the speed of a sil 4 crafted ship from 2 to 3 BY MODDING A CRAFTED ENGINE AT A POST CRAFTING DATE is allowed)

Second: In my opinion the ion turbine engine is the, when all factors are considered, best engine in the game for a competent gear head that's true (imho) in the official rules and my minimum-neccessary-departure-from-official-rules house rules. The others have niche applications.

Third. Refitting a ship is replacing attachments, usually installing them is fairly simple, quick and inexpensive compared to buying them. Off the top of my head I'd say an install cost (if you hire it done) of 1/4 the cost of the attachment, but no less than 100 credits. Time would be something like 1 sentient hour per 100 credits, with the maximum number of sentients who can simultaneously work on it equal to the silhouette of the vehicle. Also the time can not be reduced to less than an hour.

Fourth. The official rule is that stripping out attachments does NOT refund hardpoints with the only exceptions (given in fully operational) being the engine and hull. My hulls are much more capable and are co-designed with and as an extension of frames so they can't be replaced.

Replacing any component with the same model has zero hard points cost. If you crafted a ship you know what it is. Otherwise choose the version of the component that is capable of replicating the official performance that occupies the fewest hard points (so basic sensors for ships with close range sensors).

But you can mod the replacement if applicable, without increasing the hard points cost. So yes, getting a yt-1300 with extreme sensor range is intended (to the best of my recollection, but at one point I considered limiting it to long, and I'd have to check the current state of the rules to confirm specifics), and it wouldn't cost you any hard points (because the stock YT-1300 has short rather than close range). This was done for parity between official and crafted ships... you can mod any attachment with available mods on a crafted ship after it's construction, because you could just mod advanced sensors already installed on a crafted ship to do the same for no additional hp.

what's the minimum (as in pulled out ALL of the stops, integrated improvementsx2, highly automated systems attachment modded) crew a silhouette 6 space station should have? I'm thinking something like 25 or 50, what are your opinions?

@salamar_dree I'm working on the space station TBD's now getting an answer to this is a blocker on them (I've still got all the other TBD's to address)

@EliasWindrider

Howdy!

First off, there are no Sil 6 Space Stations yet to use as a reference, so I looked at all the starships (BTW: I use http://swrpg.viluppo.net/ as my source to find the ships).

There are twelve Sil 6 vessels, ranging from the Kaminoan Observation Ship (Disciples of Harmony) with 6 crew all the way up to 3770 for a Mon Cal ship.

The average is 733.

However, the lowest (non-outlier) seems to be 50 (on a freighter).

The 6 crew ship has to be automated beyond belief.

If I throw out the highest and lowest, the average is about 500.

That being said, I think that you are on the money with 25 as the ultimate minimum crew.

1 hour ago, salamar_dree said:

@EliasWindrider

Howdy!

First off, there are no Sil 6 Space Stations yet to use as a reference, so I looked at all the starships (BTW: I use http://swrpg.viluppo.net/ as my source to find the ships).

There are twelve Sil 6 vessels, ranging from the Kaminoan Observation Ship (Disciples of Harmony) with 6 crew all the way up to 3770 for a Mon Cal ship.

The average is 733.

However, the lowest (non-outlier) seems to be 50 (on a freighter).

The 6 crew ship has to be automated beyond belief.

If I throw out the highest and lowest, the average is about 500.

That being said, I think that you are on the money with 25 as the ultimate minimum crew.

If 25 is the absolute minimum for a sil 6, that makes the baseline crew for a sil 8 be 1600, the golan has 5000 that means we need to convert 900 passenger to crew and then double the crew via integrated improvements if passengers were 1900 or 950 (applying integrated improvements to double passengers first) we could match the golans crew and passengers exactly. We could also match them with 4400 (move 3400 over to crew) 2200 (double passengers move 3400 over to crew) or 1100 (double twice then move over 3400).

If we went with 1600 crew and 2200 passengers, that sounds like a decent out of the box, baseline station, which if highly automated with the mod would be 400 crew to potentially 8800 passengers which sounds about right (and that's without adding dedicated passengers bays) a highly automated sil 10 could have 1600 crew and 35,200 passengers and add 2000 passengers per dedicated passenger bay.

So what should the max number of passengers on a sil 10 station be if it's in the vicinity of 100K then the baseline station should have 1600 crew and 4400 passengers

I couldn't find any Sil 10 ships/bases for comparison, but the max passengers that I found for a Sil 9 ship is 20,000.

Does that help?

https://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Supremacy

Is at least as sil 10, might be a sil 11.

It doesn't list passengers but it's crew is 2,250,000

Supposing the passengers were 4400 and all were converted to crew, that would be 6000 times 16 for 2 larger scope and 2 integrated improvements would be 96,000 which is too small by a factor of 23.43... in other words we're not going to be able to replicate the supremacy or death star with these rules without adding more frame types. But I'll choose 4400 passengers to get a little closer to it.

Sounds good!

Besides, when you get that big, it's less of a ship/base and more of a set piece (the Death Star has a write-up like a planet, with a "population" of 1.2 million).

I’ve been working on vehicle creation for Genesys , and noticed something interesting.

For the most part, vehicles have a cap of 1 weapon per silhouette. Large vehicles (silhouette 5+) instead have a cap of one weapon emplacement per silhouette. An emplacement, it seems, can have up to 15 identical weapons in one fire arc.

of course, some military ships break this cap—most notably the ISD and the LAAT/I. But that’s could be a “military chassis” that increases the limit by 50% (which would allow for about 80% of the vehicles I checked this against).

22 hours ago, c__beck said:

I’ve been working on vehicle creation for Genesys , and noticed something interesting.

For the most part, vehicles have a cap of 1 weapon per silhouette. Large vehicles (silhouette 5+) instead have a cap of one weapon emplacement per silhouette. An emplacement, it seems, can have up to 15 identical weapons in one fire arc.

of course, some military ships break this cap—most notably the ISD and the LAAT/I. But that’s could be a “military chassis” that increases the limit by 50% (which would allow for about 80% of the vehicles I checked this against).

I've got a weapon banks attachment in the pdf. Going from memory here so actual results may vary, by default each weapon in a bank has 1 fire arc but they don't have to be all the same fire arc, and there is a mod to add extra fire arcs to weapon banks. Weapon banks are restricted to sil6+ ships or sil5 ships with the "ship of the line" hull. Each weapon bank cost 1 hp and supplies sil weapon mounts which can be linked if desired, then it's just a question of do the ships have enough hard points to get enough weapon banks to get enough weapons and all the other systems that they need, putting in turned restrictions for which there are exceptions... I didn't want that kind of complexity