Got to play my first 800 point game tonight, here's what went down.

Rebel Troopers on Standby

Speeder Bike activates just outside range to Trigger the standby attack and does a compulsory move

It is now in range of the Troopers, and does a ranged attack.

This attack does damage.

My friend and I agreed that since there wasn't any language noting an interrupt that the speeder bike attack happened before the standby triggered.

Now that the attack was successful in doing damage which of the following happens:

A) The troopers receive a suppression token thus removing their standby token

B) The standby attack goes off before the suppression token is added and the troopers get to use their standby token to move.

We took it to a roll off and the interpretation more favorable to me won (block vs surge), but we're curious about next time.

Did the compulsory move put the speeders at range 1-2 of the troopers? If so, standby should have triggered at that point, before the speeder’s attack.

With regards to your real question: we need clarification because, RAW, two passages in the RRG explicitly contradict each other. It really could go either way.

edit: found the passages

pg 15: During an attack, if at any point the attack dice in an
attack pool produce at least one hit (?) or critical (?)
result and the defender is a trooper, the defender gains a
suppression token.

pg 42: After an attack, if the attack dice produced at least
one hit (?) or critical (?) result, the defender gains a
suppression token.

Personally, I think their intent is your option “B”, only because the rule on page 42 is more verbose, with additional bullet points. This suggests to me that more thought was put into it than the passage on page 15. But it certainly needs an FAQ.

Both Standby and supression (above) occur "after an attack".

Standby specifically says:

"A standby token may be spent before any effects that trigger after an attack , attack action, move, or move action."

So, with the caveat above about supression timing being unclear, Standby should go off before the supression token is gained.

6 hours ago, nashjaee said:

Did the compulsory move put the speeders at range 1-2 of the troopers? If so, standby should have triggered at that point, before the speeder’s attack.

With regards to your real question: we need clarification because, RAW, two passages in the RRG explicitly contradict each other. It really could go either way.

edit: found the passages

pg 15: During an attack, if at any point the attack dice in an
attack pool produce at least one hit (?) or critical (?)
result and the defender is a trooper, the defender gains a
suppression token.

pg 42: After an attack, if the attack dice produced at least
one hit (?) or critical (?) result, the defender gains a
suppression token.

Personally, I think their intent is your option “B”, only because the rule on page 42 is more verbose, with additional bullet points. This suggests to me that more thought was put into it than the passage on page 15. But it certainly needs an FAQ.

I'm actually inclined to think the Pg. 15 wording is intended. If shots are on target enough that they're stopped by cover instead of wildly missing, I'd believe that would trigger suppression. Think about a classic shootout scene, with people firing from behind corners, or ducking behind tables or counters or fallen trees or whatever to pop up and fire. Suppressive fire represents the instinct to duck back when fired upon. That's why suppression tokens also give additional cover. Now imagine those movie scenes again in your head, and what happens when a bullet ricochets off that corner, or table, or tree? The guy using it for cover ducks back further behind the shelter it's providing.

@kaffis Yeah, but if "realism" is the criteria we can come at it from the other side: if a unit is on stand-by, the troops are likely staring down the sights with itchy trigger fingers ready to fire. So they may get some shots off before getting suppressed and ducking behind cover.

I think we just need an FAQ.

I think both @nashjaee and @svelok covered it well.

1st if the compulsory move put them in range that would have triggered standby

Pg41:

After an enemy unit attacks, moves , or performs an action , if that unit is at range 1–2 and in line of sight of a trooper unit with a standby token, that trooper unit may spend that standby token to perform a free attack action or a free move action

The Example in the RRG provides help to understand that moving into range counts, not just starting the move:

For example, Darth Vader performs a move action to move into range 2 of a unit of Rebel Troopers that have a standby token. Before Vader can trigger relentless to perform an attack with the “Saber Throw” upgrade card, the Rebel Troopers spend their standby token to perform a move, taking them beyond range 2 of Darth Vader. With no enemy unit in range 1–2, Darth Vader can no longer perform an attack.

if we are just using the attack itself value as mentioned

Pg41:

A standby token may be spent before any effects that trigger after an attack, attack action, move, or move action

Pg42 clearly defines suppression as after the attack action

After an attack , if the attack dice produced at least one hit (?) or critical (?) result, the defender gains a suppression token.

» The defender gains the suppression token after the attack action is resolved

50 minutes ago, nashjaee said:

@kaffis Yeah, but if "realism" is the criteria we can come at it from the other side: if a unit is on stand-by, the troops are likely staring down the sights with itchy trigger fingers ready to fire. So they may get some shots off before getting suppressed and ducking behind cover.

I think we just need an FAQ.

I was speaking toward the conflict between whether or not a dodged or cover-cancelled hit would suppress or not. The two passages quoted would result in a yes and a no, respectively. This is entirely independent of the timing of whether or not standby shots interrupt the application of suppression (which, I agree, they appear to).

Oh I see, I misread your comment, my bad. Actually, both passages grant a suppression because both require a hit or crit result on a die. There's no contradiction between the two passages in this sense.

14 hours ago, Zrob314 said:

Got to play my first 800 point game tonight, here's what went down.

Rebel Troopers on Standby

Speeder Bike activates just outside range to Trigger the standby attack and does a compulsory move

It is now in range of the Troopers, and does a ranged attack.

This attack does damage.

My friend and I agreed that since there wasn't any language noting an interrupt that the speeder bike attack happened before the standby triggered.

Now that the attack was successful in doing damage which of the following happens:

A) The troopers receive a suppression token thus removing their standby token

B) The standby attack goes off before the suppression token is added and the troopers get to use their standby token to move.

We took it to a roll off and the interpretation more favorable to me won (block vs surge), but we're curious about next time.

The standby can be triggered after an enemy unit performs a move, an attack or any other sort of action as long as the unit is at range 1-2 of the standby unit after this action is performed.

In your example, the speeder bikes compulsory move is still a move, and after this move is completed they are at range 1-2 of the rebel troopers who could spend their standby token and perform an attack before the speeder bikes would continue their activation and perform their attack.

What I wonder is what happens if (for example) a stormtrooper unit performs a move action, gets shot at by a standby unit which results in them receiving a suppression token? Do they lose their remaining action?

I assume NO since the effect of suppression is checked when a unit rallies at the beginning of its activation but I might be wrong?

1 hour ago, nashjaee said:

Oh I see, I misread your comment, my bad. Actually, both passages grant a suppression because both require a hit or crit result on a die. There's no contradiction between the two passages in this sense.

Page 42 could be argued to only accept uncanceled hits or crits, was my point.

42 minutes ago, Soulless said:

The standby can be triggered after an enemy unit performs a move, an attack or any other sort of action as long as the unit is at range 1-2 of the standby unit after this action is performed.

In your example, the speeder bikes compulsory move is still a move, and after this move is completed they are at range 1-2 of the rebel troopers who could spend their standby token and perform an attack before the speeder bikes would continue their activation and perform their attack.

What I wonder is what happens if (for example) a stormtrooper unit performs a move action, gets shot at by a standby unit which results in them receiving a suppression token? Do they lose their remaining action?

I assume NO since the effect of suppression is checked when a unit rallies at the beginning of its activation but I might be wrong?

Panic is checked at the start

This section of suppression looks to me to be a constant check, meaning you’d lose your second action

” During the “Perform Actions” step of a trooper unit’s activation, if it has a number of suppression tokens assigned to it that is equal to or greater than its courage value, a player can perform only one action instead of two (plus any number of free actions)”

4 minutes ago, Thoras said:

Panic is checked at the start

This section of suppression looks to me to be a constant check, meaning you’d lose your second action

” During the “Perform Actions” step of a trooper unit’s activation, if it has a number of suppression tokens assigned to it that is equal to or greater than its courage value, a player can perform only one action instead of two (plus any number of free actions)”

Indeed, but at pg. 21 under "Courage" it says:

"After the “Rally” step of a trooper unit’s activation, if that unit has a number of suppression tokens assigned to it that is equal to or greater than that trooper’s courage value, that unit is suppressed. A suppressed unit performs one fewer action during its activation."

Just under this paragraph it also dictates the conditions required for "Panic" in a similar wording.

That has me assuming the intention is that when a unit activates, if necessary it performs a "Rally" and effects tied to this is applied. But in an "interrupt" situation such as described above, while it could make sense to have the troopers lose their second action it just doesnt feel in line with how the rest of the rules are written.

That doesnt mean im right but for a game trying to be streamlines, it would make sense that what is determined during the Rally is what stands for the duration of the units activation.

1 hour ago, Soulless said:

Indeed, but at pg. 21 under "Courage" it says:

"After the “Rally” step of a trooper unit’s activation, if that unit has a number of suppression tokens assigned to it that is equal to or greater than that trooper’s courage value, that unit is suppressed. A suppressed unit performs one fewer action during its activation."

Just under this paragraph it also dictates the conditions required for "Panic" in a similar wording.

That has me assuming the intention is that when a unit activates, if necessary it performs a "Rally" and effects tied to this is applied. But in an "interrupt" situation such as described above, while it could make sense to have the troopers lose their second action it just doesnt feel in line with how the rest of the rules are written.

That doesnt mean im right but for a game trying to be streamlines, it would make sense that what is determined during the Rally is what stands for the duration of the units activation.

Fair enough, I didn't notice that section (I'm still torn on whether I like rules being spread across fifty different sections or not...).

That definitely could be a hard limit on when its checked. I'd be interested to hear anything official.

1 hour ago, Soulless said:

Indeed, but at pg. 21 under "Courage" it says:

"After the “Rally” step of a trooper unit’s activation, if that unit has a number of suppression tokens assigned to it that is equal to or greater than that trooper’s courage value, that unit is suppressed. A suppressed unit performs one fewer action during its activation."

Just under this paragraph it also dictates the conditions required for "Panic" in a similar wording.

That has me assuming the intention is that when a unit activates, if necessary it performs a "Rally" and effects tied to this is applied. But in an "interrupt" situation such as described above, while it could make sense to have the troopers lose their second action it just doesnt feel in line with how the rest of the rules are written.

That doesnt mean im right but for a game trying to be streamlines, it would make sense that what is determined during the Rally is what stands for the duration of the units activation.

In my mind the check for suppression for that unit already happened. At the start of that units activation, the next check for suppression and it’s effects is not till that units next activation.

2 hours ago, azavander said:

In my mind the check for suppression for that unit already happened. At the start of that units activation, the next check for suppression and it’s effects is not till that units next activation.

But the Actions section specifies during the unit activation when it comes to suppression.

9 minutes ago, TallGiraffe said:

But the Actions section specifies during the unit activation when it comes to suppression.

Hey which specific section are you referring too? Just wanted to look it up

23 minutes ago, azavander said:

Hey which specific section are you referring too? Just wanted to look it up

Pg11

30 minutes ago, TallGiraffe said:

Pg11

You actually make a good point that maybe quite useful use of standby. Opponent moves triggering standby, you fire and hit/crit and give a suppression token, when opponent goes to make a 2nd action he no longer can because he is now suppressed. Since you are already in Step 3 you can't go back to step 2 and Rally.

PG11

Suppression and damage can reduce the number of actions a unit can perform during its activation

Pg12:

During the Activation Phase, players take turns activating their units.

• When a unit activates, that unit can perform up to two actions.

• The steps of unit activation are as follows:

1. Start of Unit Activation: If the unit has an ability that triggers “when” it activates or “at the start” of its activation, the ability triggers during this step.

2. Rally: If the unit has one or more suppression tokens, it rolls one white defense die for each suppression token it has. For each block (?) or defense surge (�) result the roll produces, the unit removes one of its suppression tokens.

3. Perform Actions: A unit that is not suppressed can perform up to two actions and any number of free actions. A unit that is suppressed or that has lost an action due to being damaged can perform only one action and any number of free actions.

» After a player activates a unit, that player places its order token facedown (rank side down) on the battlefield near the unit leader.

Pg42

» During the “Perform Actions” step of a trooper unit’s activation, if it has a number of suppression tokens assigned to it that is equal to or greater than its courage value, a player can perform only one action instead of two (plus any number of free actions).

pg21

After the “Rally” step of a trooper unit’s activation, if that unit has a number of suppression tokens assigned to it that is equal to or greater than that trooper’s courage value, that unit is suppressed. A suppressed unit performs one fewer action during its activation.

I really dont see the problem. If the trooper already had the standby token, they are already in standby. They already used their actions and are just waiting for a trigger.

If any unit comes into range 1-2 to this standby unit, the unit can spend the token to do a free attack action or free move action. It really does not matter if this unit has 0 or 100 suppression token at this time.

35 minutes ago, Tokra said:

I really dont see the problem. If the trooper already had the standby token, they are already in standby. They already used their actions and are just waiting for a trigger.

If any unit comes into range 1-2 to this standby unit, the unit can spend the token to do a free attack action or free move action. It really does not matter if this unit has 0 or 100 suppression token at this time.

The debate is what happens to the unit that moved into range of the stand by unit. If it becomes suppressed during its activation, does it still lose an action.

Majority seems to be leaning towards yes.

2 minutes ago, Thoras said:

The debate is what happens to the unit that moved into range of the stand by unit. If it becomes suppressed during its activation, does it still lose an action.

Majority seems to be leaning towards yes.

Ahh, i see. Missed this, because in the first post it was about speeder bikes. For these it does not matter.

5 hours ago, Tokra said:

Ahh, i see. Missed this, because in the first post it was about speeder bikes. For these it does not matter.

yeah the topic took a pivot action...

The wording is once more ambiguous. I hope the interpretation will be "standby friendly" as the standby action is weak enough already and walking in range of a troop several millenia after the invention of the machine gun ought to be punished. Miniature games should be about using terrain.

I'm reviving this cause something similar just happened. A compulsory move from an Air Speeder at a Standby Fleet Trooper unit, which was argued that the speeder's compulsory move does not trigger the Standby because the compulsory move is not an action.

page 41 of the RRG (as someone quoted earlier) states: "After an enemy unit attacks, moves , or performs an action, if that unit is at range 1–2 and in line of sight of a trooper unit with a standby token, that trooper unit may spend that standby token to perform a free attack action or a free move action."

Note that it says move, not move action, so I think that means the readied action is triggered. It also says it in an odd way that can only include a non-action move, "...After an enemy unit attacks, moves or performs an action ...". Movement and attacks are normally actions and would be included just by saying "After an enemy unit performs an action...", but it is very specific in saying "...attacks, moves, or performs an action...".

Just the way I read it.

The above argument will make it hard for a Standby unit to gain suppression, since the Standby should be triggered before it gains suppression, unless an enemy unit is already at attack range and just attacks the unit with Standby (not doing any other action or move prior), but if they're that close, just don't do a Standby.

46 minutes ago, JediPartisan said:

I'm reviving this cause something similar just happened. A compulsory move from an Air Speeder at a Standby Fleet Trooper unit, which was argued that the speeder's compulsory move does not trigger the Standby because the compulsory move is not an action.

page 41 of the RRG (as someone quoted earlier) states: "After an enemy unit attacks, moves , or performs an action, if that unit is at range 1–2 and in line of sight of a trooper unit with a standby token, that trooper unit may spend that standby token to perform a free attack action or a free move action."

Note that it says move, not move action, so I think that means the readied action is triggered. It also says it in an odd way that can only include a non-action move, "...After an enemy unit attacks, moves or performs an action ...". Movement and attacks are normally actions and would be included just by saying "After an enemy unit performs an action...", but it is very specific in saying "...attacks, moves, or performs an action...".

Just the way I read it.

The above argument will make it hard for a Standby unit to gain suppression, since the Standby should be triggered before it gains suppression, unless an enemy unit is already at attack range and just attacks the unit with Standby (not doing any other action or move prior), but if they're that close, just don't do a Standby.

The way you read it is correct. A compulsory move does trigger standby because it is a move. As you said, it does not have to be a move action .