The AT-ST has Arsenal 2, which says that each mini in a unit can use up to 2 of it's weapons. General Weiss also grants Arsenal 2. From what I've read, this means each Arsenal stacks, giving an ATST Arsenal 4, effectively meaning it can use all of its weapons.
Units can also split fire for each uniquely named weapon it has.
So does this mean that, if possible, the ATST can shoot up to 4 units in a single attack?
As far as I know, thats exactly right!
The ATST can be crazy but all that awesomeness will cost you!
19 minutes ago, Soulless said:As far as I know, thats exactly right!
The ATST can be crazy but all that awesomeness will cost you!
Yeah, people keep saying that the drawback to the AT-ST is its cost, but I don't think that really matters when it has infinite range with the mortar with auto suppression and can still put three other shots down the line as well.
I think the most effective weapon that the Rebs have against the AT-ST is the T-47, and even with that I'm starting to wonder if I need to bring in two Snowspeeders just to take 1 AT-ST down. Some have suggested ignoring the AT-ST but when the AT-ST basically gets 4 attacks, it's hard to ignore it because doing so generally results in moderate casualties.
Don’t forget that you have to exhaust Weiss. This means that the AT-ST will have to spend its first action readying, leaving the AT-ST tokenless and not able to move.
31 minutes ago, Imperial Citizen said:Don’t forget that you have to exhaust Weiss. This means that the AT-ST will have to spend its first action readying, leaving the AT-ST tokenless and not able to move.
Good reminder I forgot to do that yesterday in my first game!
3 hours ago, Imperial Citizen said:Don’t forget that you have to exhaust Weiss. This means that the AT-ST will have to spend its first action readying, leaving the AT-ST tokenless and not able to move.
Thank you. The AT-ST walker I've been playing has not done this. Ever.
So people say the the Arsenal 2 that General Weiss provides stacks with the Arsenal 2 that the AT-ST already has, giving it Arsenal 4. I can’t find anywhere in the rules where this is stated. Can someone point me in the right direction?
Edited by REYxISxBAEWeapon keywords page 15 -Weapon keywords are cumulative, although in this case it uses Impact as it's example the rule isn't specifying Impact in the rule, only the clarification, the devs I believe have clarified it also. confusion comes about when you look at Precise or Inspire, for example, which isn't a weapon keyword. There is a list of weapon keywords in the full rules.
25 minutes ago, syrath said:Weapon keywords page 15 -Weapon keywords are cumulative, although in this case it uses Impact as it's example the rule isn't specifying Impact in the rule, only the clarification, the devs I believe have clarified it also. confusion comes about when you look at Precise or Inspire, for example, which isn't a weapon keyword. There is a list of weapon keywords in the full rules.
Arsenal X is a unit keyword as described on page 13 of the Rules Reference. Not a weapon keyword. I’m not finding anything that states that unit keywords are cumulative, in the Learn to Play or the Rules Reference.
I’m just trying to understand this. Plus we all know that one player who won’t accept anything that’s not printed in black and white.
3 minutes ago, REYxISxBAE said:Arsenal X is a unit keyword as described on page 13 of the Rules Reference. Not a weapon keyword. I’m not finding anything that states that unit keywords are cumulative, in the Learn to Play or the Rules Reference.
I’m just trying to understand this. Plus we all know that one player who won’t accept anything that’s not printed in black and white.
Unit keywords do not stack per RAW. However, the TO I talked to said it's a known error. Unit keywords are supposed to stack and the FAQ will fix it.
Obviously this does nothing for the game right now.
If you need it in black and white, this is pulled from the AT-ST unit preview article posted by FFG on January 12th, 2018. Link below.
QuoteYou can attack with even more of your weapons if you have General Weiss filling the pilot upgrade slot on one of your AT-STs. General Weiss can pilot any Imperial ground vehicle, and his expert coordination of fire grants his vehicle the Arsenal 2 keyword. If you stack this with the AT-ST’s pre-existing Arsenal keyword, you gain Arsenal 4—enough to make an attack with every single one of the AT-ST’s weapons!
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2018/1/12/massive-destruction/
Haha awesome! Thanks guys!!
On 3/31/2018 at 4:29 PM, Xiervak said:I think the most effective weapon that the Rebs have against the AT-ST is the T-47
Oh, the MPL-57 Ion can nicely ruin any chicken's day for 32 points only :-)
5 hours ago, cserz said:Oh, the MPL-57 Ion can nicely ruin any chicken's day for 32 points only :-)
In what way?
If they Ion the ATST, it loses an action -so if it wants to shoot it can't also ready Weiss, move, or aim.
If two squads Ion the ATST, it can't do any of the above
or even fire its guns
. Rebel infantry can turn it into an expensive paper weight if used correctly.
15 hours ago, Undeadguy said:Unit keywords do not stack per RAW. However, the TO I talked to said it's a known error. Unit keywords are supposed to stack and the FAQ will fix it.
Obviously this does nothing for the game right now.
Unit keywords do not stack as in once per mini.
A unit, with the keyword Impact (weapon Keyword), could change one die to crit for each mini that fired this weapon (for example: Speeder Bikes). But a unit with a Precise keyword can only add the effect once for the whole unit, and not once per mini that shot the weapon.
For most "X" keywords it does not matter if they stack.
Precise for example. There is no difference if you have two times precise 1 or if this count as precise 2. You can just reroll two additional dice when you use an aim token.
And even for Arsenal it really does not matter if Weiss and and the AT-ST stack.
When choosing weapons during the “Form Attack Pool” step of an attack, each mini in a unit that has the arsenal x keyword can choose a number of its weapons equal to the value of x. Each chosen weapon contributes its dice and keywords to the attack pool.
You can even handle the two Arenal 2 separately.
At the "When choosing weapons..."
You choose two weapons for Arsenal 2 from the AT-ST and two other weapons for Arsenal 2 from Weiss. And you are firing all 4 weapons at whatever targets you want.
It does not need to be Arsenal 4.
2 hours ago, Tokra said:Unit keywords do not stack as in once per mini.
A unit, with the keyword Impact (weapon Keyword), could change one die to crit for each mini that fired this weapon (for example: Speeder Bikes). But a unit with a Precise keyword can only add the effect once for the whole unit, and not once per mini that shot the weapon.
For most "X" keywords it does not matter if they stack.
Precise for example. There is no difference if you have two times precise 1 or if this count as precise 2. You can just reroll two additional dice when you use an aim token.And even for Arsenal it really does not matter if Weiss and and the AT-ST stack.
Impact is a weapon keyword, and per RAW, weapon keywords do stack dependent upon minis.
Precise and Arsenal are unit keywords, and per RAW, do not stack at all.
Stacking matters because you will get people who argue you take the highest value of the keyword. Precise says you roll X. So if you have Stormtroopers with scopes, you have 2 cards with Precise 1. No where does it say it becomes Precise 2.
What you're describing is resolving the same effect multiple times from different sources. It's not addressed in the RRG, so perhaps it's legal. But you don't have to convince me while playing, it's the other guys.
7 hours ago, MattShadowlord said:If they Ion the ATST, it loses an action -so if it wants to shoot it can't also ready Weiss, move, or aim.
If two squads Ion the ATST, it can't do any of the above or even fire its guns . Rebel infantry can turn it into an expensive paper weight if used correctly.
Right, bit the ATST has armor, which cancels all non crits. Ion has impact 1. So at the end of the day, at least in my experience, Ion guns only result in one crit which is easily evaded. Does the ATST still get ion'd even if they roll evades?
52 minutes ago, Xiervak said:Right, bit the ATST has armor, which cancels all non crits. Ion has impact 1. So at the end of the day, at least in my experience, Ion guns only result in one crit which is easily evaded. Does the ATST still get ion'd even if they roll evades?
No damage, no ion token.
• A vehicle that suffers wounds after defending against an attack that includes a weapon that has the ion x keyword gains x ion tokens.
But remember, the weapon keyword : ion 1, applies to the dice pool... so a lucky blaster rifle Crit is enough, as long as they are firing at the same target at the same time as the ion gun.
20 hours ago, NeonWolf said:If you need it in black and white, this is pulled from the AT-ST unit preview article posted by FFG on January 12th, 2018. Link below.
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2018/1/12/massive-destruction/
To be fair, anybody experienced with FFG news articles knows they average at least one blatant error per article, so I wouldn't cite news articles as a RAW source, and I'd be hesitant to have any confidence that they represent RAI, either.
However, if you have that experience with FFG news articles, you also probably have enough experience with other FFG games to know that the "Keyword #" nomenclature is very standard FFG fare, and I can think of only one example where it doesn't stack from multiple sources, and even that's an exception to the game's normal rule. (It's Overgrow in Rune Wars Minis that takes the highest source instead of stacking -- and they got it wrong in one of their Latari articles, IIRC) So folks with FFG experience are in pretty broad agreement that we will find out that unit keywords stack, and I have yet to play somebody who disagreed with playing it that way for Precise and Arsenal in anticipation.
1 minute ago, Drasnighta said:But remember, the weapon keyword : ion 1, applies to the dice pool... so a lucky blaster rifle Crit is enough, as long as they are firing at the same target at the same time as the ion gun.
Ooh. This does bring up a useful point for unit stacking -- even if you anticipate unit keywords stacking, there are multiple different ways unit keywords could apply to split fire: either the stacked total would apply to either pool, or the stacked total would have to go towards one pool or another, or it could perhaps be split among pools. This is the interesting point to watch for, to me, since I consider the stacking question itself to be a foregone conclusion.
Unit keywords must stack because otherwise the cards in the core are actually useless for Stormtroopers, as they already have Precise and scopes give them Precise as well. They would have included something different if they didnt work for both sides.
53 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:Unit keywords must stack because otherwise the cards in the core are actually useless for Stormtroopers, as they already have Precise and scopes give them Precise as well. They would have included something different if they didnt work for both sides.
Exactly. Though Stormtroopers aren't the example for it, Weiss is. The argument could be made that Stormtroopers get Targeting Scopes "built in" for their cost even if they didn't stack, and that the upgrade is neutral because other Imperial units will be able to take it meaningfully in their equipment slot. It would be kind of lousy core box selection (why not include the Grappling Hooks in core, instead, then, for instance?) but it's not enough to declare them useless if the mechanic doesn't work a specific way. General Weiss, on the other hand, was literally printed solely to stack with the AT-ST's natural Arsenal.
That too.
We've also seen this in other FFG games where Keyword X mechanics stack unless explicitly told otherwise, and the only time ive seen the Legion RR mention directly "does not stack" are keywords without an X value (blast for instance) because they wouldnt add anything anyway.