Conflicting rules on performing a compulsory move, dealing with edge of battlefield is different between the compulsory move section and the speeder x section that also provides how to perform a compulsary move, the first defeating the unit the second allowing the unit to cut short with wounds.

Why don't we add an example for Force Push off of terrain? I know how I would rule it if I was a TO, but that doesn't mean I'm interpreting the rules correctly.

2 hours ago, Caimheul1313 said:

No, the 50% is supposed to be checked before the game, as the rules on Page 8 clearly state.

Not doubting your rules but thats just silly as 50% covered its totally dependent on the elevation one is looking at. An AtSt can be 20% or 80% covered depending on what height the model looking at it is.

Ergo, you determine 50% on a case by case basis when shooting like any wargame which uses true los.

4 hours ago, Big Easy said:

Since there's nothing posted here yet, thought I would start with this. This isn't a rule discussion thread, but a repository of issues that are widely agreed upon to be unclear based on rules currently published. Comment with any additions!

Vehicle LoS and Cover - Is the page 8 RRG guideline of 50% more important than the clear directive to draw a line from base to base to determine cover for all units? We have interpretations but could use clarification.

Compulsory Move ending on barricade or other uneven terrain under height 1 - can a vehicle with Speeder X ignore the barricade if it takes a compulsory move and no other move in its turn? Does it stop short of the barricade despite it being a compulsory (full) move? Do you swap out the barricade and replace? Do you take damage equal to speed?

• EDIT : Alex Davy responded with "You are not allowed to place a Speeder if you cant fit your base on it. So if you land on a barricade, you do not pick it up and mark it. You just put the model on the closer side. This fulfills the compulsory move, so you don't take damage from crashing."

Compulsory Move ending on Objective Tokens -

EDIT: Needing clarification doesn't mean we are completely lost. I imagine most of us will get by just fine with interpretations that will likely get confirmed by official rulings--I'm just trying to catalog the rules that would benefit from that final ruling!

Compulsory Move (page 21)

If it is impossible for a unit to perform a full move, it can perform a partial move instead, but the partial move must end as far along the movement template as possible.
» If the unit performs a partial movement because it cannot perform a full movement, the unit immediately su ers a number of wounds equal to its maximum speed.

Speeder X (page 40)

» A repulsor vehicle’s final position after performing a move cannot overlap another unit unless it is performing a compulsory move. If it is performing a compulsory move, its final position can overlap trooper minis. If
its final position after performing a compulsory move would overlap one or more trooper minis, those trooper minis are displaced.

Movement (page 33)

While moving a mini along a path created by a movement tool, if the base of the mini is impeded by an object, that mini must stop its movement prematurely unless the mini can legally move through, over, or on top of the obstructing object.

Seems cut and dry. Overlap on final movement for vehicles is invalid, this makes it a partial move (forced) which causes the vehicle to suffer its movement speed damage.

8 hours ago, Undeadguy said:

I saw a lot of people give blatantly wrong answers to rules questions and try to tell the TO on how the rules are supposed to be read. Combine that with a huge player base and you've created

... a pretty normal games workshop tabletop game tournament experience.

1 hour ago, DerBaer said:

... a pretty normal games workshop tabletop game tournament experience.

Basically. That’s where I cut my teeth on Rules interpretation... @Undeadguy Knows where that has brought me these days ??

i wont be doing the same for Legion ?

Just waiting for the first tournament report to tell us, that everyone s cheating on line of sight, cover and movement ...

... I hope that I'm wrong.

11 hours ago, Derrault said:

Compulsory Move (page 21)

If it is impossible for a unit to perform a full move, it can perform a partial move instead, but the partial move must end as far along the movement template as possible.
» If the unit performs a partial movement because it cannot perform a full movement, the unit immediately su ers a number of wounds equal to its maximum speed.

Speeder X (page 40)

» A repulsor vehicle’s final position after performing a move cannot overlap another unit unless it is performing a compulsory move. If it is performing a compulsory move, its final position can overlap trooper minis. If
its final position after performing a compulsory move would overlap one or more trooper minis, those trooper minis are displaced.

Movement (page 33)

While moving a mini along a path created by a movement tool, if the base of the mini is impeded by an object, that mini must stop its movement prematurely unless the mini can legally move through, over, or on top of the obstructing object.

Seems cut and dry. Overlap on final movement for vehicles is invalid, this makes it a partial move (forced) which causes the vehicle to suffer its movement speed damage.

The issue is that Speeders X ignore terrain height X or lower. But you can't ignore being physically unable to place a mini, and while we all have an answer to this it's not clear in the rules yet (and the section on climbing is not sufficient as this is not a climb).

4 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

Basically. That’s where I cut my teeth on Rules interpretation... @Undeadguy Knows where that has brought me these days ??

i wont be doing the same for Legion ?

I'll be doing it instead haha

52 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

I'll be doing it instead haha

Knowing both you and Dras from the Armada boards, I think it'll be fine.... ?

2 hours ago, Undeadguy said:

I'll be doing it instead haha

Well, if you need any assist, shoot me a message- but I’m focusing mostly on just enjoying them as s paint option right now... really playing will wait for Battle Droids - but that also means I’m looking at rules unsullied by play shortcuts ?

Re-posting from another discussion:

" Here's what I'm stuck on: (in regard to the movement tools) "placed against a unit’s leader and adjusted freely only during that unit’s activation" So, what if I don't place it against the base? What if I place it next to the base? What if I place it against the base of a miniature other than that group's leader? According to RAW those are all legal?"

Please specify when, if ever, I am allowed to pre-measure using the moment tool so long as I am NOT placing it against a unit leader's base.

Or...something like "Movement tools may only be placed against unit leader bases and may not be placed on the play area in any other way, or used to measure for any unit or miniature other than during that units activation."

This came up last night while playing. I apologize beforehand for the wall of text.

Engaged-

While a trooper unit is in a melee with another trooper unit,
those units are engaged. A unit that is engaged cannot perform
moves, cannot be displaced, cannot perform ranged attacks, and
cannot be targeted by ranged attacks.
•
Trooper units can be only engaged with other trooper units.
Trooper units cannot be engaged with vehicles, and vehicles
cannot be engaged with other vehicles, even if both units are
in a melee.
•
To exit an engagement, a unit must withdraw by using
its entire activation to perform a speed-1 move. A unit
that is withdrawing cannot do anything during the
“Perform Actions” step of its activation except perform this
speed-1 move.

Free Card Action-

A free card action is a type of free action. If an ability is
preceded by a free card action icon, that ability is a free
card action. Free card actions do not count against the two
actions that a unit can perform during its activation.
•
Each free card action is a unique action; a unit can perform
different free card actions during its activation. However, a
unit cannot perform the same free card action more than
once during its activation.
•
Card actions can allow units to gain aim, dodge, and
standby tokens. If a card action specifically instructs a
unit to gain an aim, dodge, or standby token, that effect is
different than performing an aim, dodge, or standby action
and therefore does not trigger abilities that occur after aim,
dodge, or standby actions are performed.

Relentless-

After a unit that has the
relentless keyword performs a move
action, it may perform a free attack action.
•
This attack action is a free action and therefore does not
count as one of the unit’s two actions.
•
A unit that has already performed an attack action during its
activation cannot perform a free attack action.
•
A unit that has already performed a free attack action during
its activation cannot perform another attack action.

And finally The Golden Rules.

We had an interesting issue. We have a few archways for terrain. Now when an AT-ST is up against an archway 85% is visible and from any of those points you can see the targeting model, but due to the archway size, from the top of the ATST you can't see the models. So does that mean that line of sight is blocked even though the windows of the AT-ST, the weapons and 85% of the body are capable seeing or due to the 'draw from top' override that?

@smccaughan and @Gridloc

You should probably start new topics for your specific questions. This thread has grown beyond the scope of what @Big Easy had intended.

Creating a new topic will make it easier to keep track of the discussion for your specific issues and for other to find.

3 minutes ago, NeonWolf said:

@smccaughan and @Gridloc

You should probably start new topics for your specific questions. This thread has grown beyond the scope of what @Big Easy had intended.

Creating a new topic will make it easier to keep track of the discussion for your specific issues and for other to find.

It's okay, I'm updating the top post with additions so that will always be the meat of it. The discussions keep it bumped!

9 minutes ago, Gridloc said:

We had an interesting issue. We have a few archways for terrain. Now when an AT-ST is up against an archway 85% is visible and from any of those points you can see the targeting model, but due to the archway size, from the top of the ATST you can't see the models. So does that mean that line of sight is blocked even though the windows of the AT-ST, the weapons and 85% of the body are capable seeing or due to the 'draw from top' override that?

Great point, this was added in the original post, item 1.

15 minutes ago, smccaughan said:

1. engage specifically says trooper units, so does that mean commanders are not trooper units or they are trooper units?

2. Does withdraw trump free card actions and card text or is it the other way around.

1. Commanders are troopers, it says so on their card. Trooper is a designation to distinguish them from vehicles etc.

2. I believe withdraw wording says "entire activation" which precludes using any free actions or card abilities. You move speed 1 and then it's your opponent's turn to activate a unit.

20 minutes ago, Big Easy said:

1. Commanders are troopers, it says so on their card. Trooper is a designation to distinguish them from vehicles etc.

2. I believe withdraw wording says "entire activation" which precludes using any free actions or card abilities. You move speed 1 and then it's your opponent's turn to activate a unit.

To add to this, the word CANNOT is absolute. The rule states you CANNOT do anything except the withdraw move....so that's ALL you can do.

1 hour ago, Darth Lupine said:

To add to this, the word CANNOT is absolute. The rule states you CANNOT do anything except the withdraw move....so that's ALL you can do.

Like I said we played it like Vader could not do it but (and here is the Devils Advocate in me) the Golden rule says If a card effect uses the word "cannot" that effect is absolute. The argument then becomes the rule about withdraw is not a "Card Effect" and therefore that part of the Golden Rule does not apply.

@Big Easy explanation is more in line with what we determined during game play. Like I said afterwards however we started to overthink and came up with these questions. But this does bring up a different question, (and bear with me I may talk my way into my own answer) Engaged says While a trooper unit is in a melee with another trooper unit, those units are engaged. A unit that is engaged cannot perform moves, cannot be displaced, cannot perform ranged attacks, and cannot be targeted by ranged attacks.

With that being said Engaged does not say anything about losing the ability to Dodge, Aim, Standby, Recover, Attack, or Card Action. So my question is then Could Vader have still used his free card actions and take an Aim action to give him Force Choke(if a trooper unit is in range), Jedi Reflexes(dodge token so he can get defensive surge), and an Aim token?

2 hours ago, smccaughan said:

Does withdraw trump free card actions and card text or is it the other way around.

Here are the rules.

PG 46

• A unit that is withdrawing cannot perform any other actions, including free actions, or resolve any abilities during its activation. It can only resolve the withdraw.
• If a game effect triggers by a unit moving, that game effect cannot be triggered by withdrawing

23 minutes ago, smccaughan said:

But this does bring up a different question, (and bear with me I may talk my way into my own answer) Engaged says While a trooper unit is in a melee with another trooper unit, those units are engaged. A unit that is engaged cannot perform moves, cannot be displaced, cannot perform ranged attacks, and cannot be targeted by ranged attacks.

With that being said Engaged does not say anything about losing the ability to Dodge, Aim, Standby, Recover, Attack, or Card Action. So my question is then Could Vader have still used his free card actions and take an Aim action to give him Force Choke(if a trooper unit is in range), Jedi Reflexes(dodge token so he can get defensive surge), and an Aim token?

Yes, you can take free actions or other actions during engagement, except for the ones the rules say you can't do. So Aim before you swing.

55 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

Here are the rules.

PG 46

• A unit that is withdrawing cannot perform any other actions, including free actions, or resolve any abilities during its activation. It can only resolve the withdraw.
• If a game effect triggers by a unit moving, that game effect cannot be triggered by withdrawing

Yes, you can take free actions or other actions during engagement, except for the ones the rules say you can't do. So Aim before you swing.

@Undeadguy Yeah I see that now. It looks like I need to print this rules reference out for the LGS so we can look at it instead of just the Learn to Play book.

39 minutes ago, smccaughan said:

@Undeadguy Yeah I see that now. It looks like I need to print this rules reference out for the LGS so we can look at it instead of just the Learn to Play book.

I wouldn't print it out. I expect a rules update in the next week or two.

16 hours ago, Undeadguy said:

I wouldn't print it out. I expect a rules update in the next week or two.

I keep it on my tablet, which goes with me everywhere. Easy update!