I remember this used to be a big topic on the old AEG boards. As I've thought about it, I think I might have an idea about his true name and I'd love to hear the opinion of other Rokugani.

We know that with the Crane, Doji's son that entered the Shadowlands and returned with white hair, he was given leave to form his own family, the Daidoji 'Protectors of Doji'.

Moving on to the book Secrets of the Shadowlands, it was said that a hint of Fu Leng's true name was hidden in the book. Much of the book talks about Daigotsu's reign in the Shadowlands, which gave me my theory.

Would Daigotsu mean 'Protector of Gotsu' and therefore be Fu Leng's true name?

I think I may have heard that theory before. It's definitely a good one!

(Through a frickin' ugly name. I know pronunciation among L5R players ranges all over the place, but "Gotsu" should basically sound like the English "Goat-Sue.")

(And now I'm imagining a Goat Sue as a weird variant on a Mary Sue.)

"Life ain't easy for a boy named sue"

Jonny Cash was singing about Fu Leng......I can dig it.

10 hours ago, Kinzen said:

(Through a frickin' ugly name. I know pronunciation among L5R players ranges all over the place, but "Gotsu" should basically sound like the English "Goat-Sue.")

My Japanese is way out of practice, and I'm also willing to concede that there may be regional variations in pronunciation, but that pronunciation is not (always) what I would hear. Assuming you're giving the name alone, I think it would be closer to Go-ts (or Goats, but with a glottal stop at the end for the swallowed 'u'). However, in a sentence, followed by a word with a voiced consonant (anything but t, s, or k), I would agree with your substitution.

I lived a bit north of Tokyo at the time, and I don't know enough about regional dialects to know how different their pronunciation was, but swallowing i's or u's at the end of a word or between voiceless consonants was very strong in that area.

My understanding is, apart from words lifted verbatim from Japanese (bushi, samurai, gunso, etc) that pronunciation of L5R names basically defaults to westernized "sound it out" style?

Most proper names should also follow Japanese pronunciation, I think. Some Unicorn names are clearly foreign to Rokugan, so they follow other conventions.

High-duh Key-su-duh!!!

The closest thing we ever had for Fu Leng's true name was the name he had when demoted to a mortal: Furumaro.

5 hours ago, agarrett said:

My Japanese is way out of practice, and I'm also willing to concede that there may be regional variations in pronunciation, but that pronunciation is not (always) what I would hear. Assuming you're giving the name alone, I think it would be closer to Go-ts (or Goats, but with a glottal stop at the end for the swallowed 'u'). However, in a sentence, followed by a word with a voiced consonant (anything but t, s, or k), I would agree with your substitution.

I lived a bit north of Tokyo at the time, and I don't know enough about regional dialects to know how different their pronunciation was, but swallowing i's or u's at the end of a word or between voiceless consonants was very strong in that area.

You are definitely correct about Tokyo dialect; sometimes a "u" (particularly for verbs at the end of a sentence) is barely pronounced, if at all.

That being said, in textbook Japanese the whole symbol (3 letters Romanized) would be pronounced "tsu" with the u. It would not be intended to sound like "sue," but to an English speaing person's ear, it could; however, there would be a short "t" sound before the "s"

Edit: Just to be clear, I am no expert of the Japanese language, and my skills are very rusty, but this is my understanding. I would be happy to hear a clarification if I'm not entirely correct.

1 hour ago, Tetsuhiko said:

The closest thing we ever had for Fu Leng's true name was the name he had when demoted to a mortal: Furumaro.

I'm totally in favor of someone tying to discover his name during the FFG story arc.............maybe something like a tatt'd up Dragon monk that goes crazy in the process and starts killing his own clanmates...............

just spitballin

I was simplifying a bit, it's true. The T belongs to the tsu syllable, not the go one, and the U would be partially devoiced, but "Goat-Sue" was the best way I could think to communicate that it isn't "Gots-You" or any of the other things I've heard which are nothing like Japanese pronunciation.

5 hours ago, LionOfwinter said:

My understanding is, apart from words lifted verbatim from Japanese (bushi, samurai, gunso, etc) that pronunciation of L5R names basically defaults to westernized "sound it out" style?

The vast majority of the non-Unicorn names follow Japanese phonology, and some of them are straight-up Japanese names or at least Japanese name-elements. So it makes sense to pronounce all the Japanese-looking ones as if they were indeed from that language.

(Especially since Japanese pronunciation is simpler than the Anglophone "sound it out" method tends to produce. None of this nonsense about vowels having two or three or four different pronunciations, etc.)

3 hours ago, Kinzen said:

None of this nonsense about vowels having two or three or four different pronunciations, etc.

To be fair, and as a non-native speaker, the whole English language is a complete and utter nonsense. I mean, you can straight up make up words and nobody says a thing! (I once heard somebody using “coconuting” several times during a conversation, I swear). And it’s basically impossible to know how a word is pronounced the first time you see it. You have to wait for somebody to say it to know!

In spanish there's only one way to pronounce each vocal, and we already have all the words we need, as it should be in any decent language, no need to make up new ones!

What the Fu Leng is "coconuting?"

I'm too scared to look it up on urban dictionary after my wife's niece told us her ex-roommate tried to get her into "unicorning."

Spoiler Alert: It has nothing to do with the Unicorn Clan or My Little Pony

Also, WTH is wrong with people?

Back on topic:

I heard that if you read a 12 volume series called "The Black Scrolls" you get to learn Fu Leng's true name.

26 minutes ago, Tabris2k said:

To be fair, and as a non-native speaker, the whole English language is a complete and utter nonsense.

Yup. And in fact, Spanish speakers have a leg up when it comes to pronouncing Japanese, because the vowels are essentially the same.

4 hours ago, Ishi Tonu said:

I'm totally in favor of someone tying to discover his name during the FFG story arc.............maybe something like a tatt'd up Dragon monk that goes crazy in the process and starts killing his own clanmates...............

just spitballin

Why stop with his clanmates? Maybe by mixing the blood of the direct descendants of the seven kamis we can create a Tatoo that allows you to stare into the Heavens and get the answer you seek. Better get started with the blooshed right away.

Careful. Meddling with noble blood tend to attract the Shuten Doji.

Well ...my Dark Lord name appears to be Chinese more than Japanese.

Otherwise it would had been without an F and L is R in his name! U Reng? “Nope I just SMSd” ?

On 4/4/2018 at 9:37 PM, Yogo Rye X said:

Well ...my Dark Lord name appears to be Chinese more than Japanese.

Otherwise it would had been without an F and L is R in his name! U Reng? “Nope I just SMSd” ?

I always interpreted this as being the commoner’s sobriquet for the Dark Kami from the first Day of Thunder. But in the Rokugans I have usually run, the heimen and hinin typically spoke a different language than the samurai, with some crossover specifically in writing and words for concepts which were post Kami. The samurai speak a language which is modeled after the language the Kami spoke when they fell, while the rest of Rokugan speak the traiditional Rokugani language.

It is worth contemplating why the original writers for the setting decided to have one of the only Chinese names to ever appear within the entire setting ever be the name the villain is called.

Seriously, why name everything up and down the line in Japanese and give everyone either Japanese or Japanese-sounding names.

Then when they go to name the big bad, that is the one and only place they decide to resort to Chinese.

I mean, I do get and even kind of like the idea that the dark power managed to erase the name of a demi-god entirely so that even those who did know it can no longer remember it because the darkness can simply affect the world in that manner...

But why is he given a Chinese name?

Originaly shugenja were call shang tsung or some variation of that. It was only in the original add blurb that predated imperial. So maybe it had more Chinese at some point in design and Fu Leng is just a carry over?

I'll point out that there's more non-Japanese influence sneaking back into the game, particularly in the RPG. Dao and Jian are apparently weapons used by the Dragon sometimes; Crab use Crossbows and repeating crossbows on the wall; there are non-Japanese names for some NPCs.

My theory is that Fu Leng owes his name in part to fellow villain Fu Manchu with a chance of association with H.P. Lovecraft's Plateau of Leng.

There are a few Chinese-sounding names among Unicorn characters going almost all the way back to the beginning of the CCG. I think it was around Gold Edition when AEG directed Unicorn more towards Mongolian influence.

55 minutes ago, BCumming said:

There are a few Chinese-sounding names among Unicorn characters going almost all the way back to the beginning of the CCG. I think it was around Gold Edition when AEG directed Unicorn more towards Mongolian influence.

It was after WotC took over (so yes around Gold Edition) when we were seeing the rise of the Moto as the dominant faction, following Shinjo's purge of the Kolat during the Hidden Emperor arc, that the Mongolian aspects really started to be played up, versus having been a quietly mentioned sub fact that wasn't really explored.

It should also be mentioned that in the old lore Fu Leng was not his true name, it was the name he adopted after he fell to Jigoku.

Heck his name could be Bob for all we know. He didn't fall to Jigoku with the name of Fu Leng. He emerged from Jigoku with the name. Maybe he wanted to rock a name that was not rokugani for a purpose.

Schmoozies beat me to it