Collex said:

I can understand. I didn't really watch much Buffy growing up, so I don't have a great knowledge of the character.

Perhaps for the stake, it should ignore Physical Resistance instead of having the blessing effect against undead. That way, it's a bit more usable.

I still think max Lore 2 is crippling, but perhaps it'll make the character unique.

I think you should playtest this character several times. See how well she does overall.

Amiral142: Thanks for the tips! I'm going to try them, will see what the result is, and then I'll re-post it. As for the original movie, I just bought it and watched it again last week (I had seen it on T.V. once before). It's quite funny for a lousy movie. I even put a reference to it on the back of the card ("keen fashion sense is one of the quote from the movie")

Deadguywalking: For the stake, do you mean ignore physical resistance against undead or against all monsters? Because I had thought of making the crossbow works like that, but the problem is that, in the base game, there is only 1 undead who's got physical resistant, the vampire. Sure, it fits thematically, but as there are only one vampire, it would a pretty lousy weapon. This would mean I would have to create a bunch of vampire to add to the game everytime I use Buffy.

As for the palytest, I'm going to get into taht as soon as I get my own copy of the game (I always played with a friend's copy, but now the friend's away so...) in a few weeks (I'm waiting for the Hallowen sale from my FLGS, I'll get 20% off.) I going to playtest her heavily.

The next investigator on the list is Xander Harris. I think I've found his ability, but I'm not sure if t's going to work. I also have personnal story cards in developpement for Buffy.

One last thing: What do you think of the art I got for Buffy? Cause I'm probably going to, as much as possible, use similar arts for the other investigators. It comes from the covers of the Buffy Season 8 comic book issues.

Collex said:

Well, if you did add a bunch of vampires, it would definitely be thematic. Perhaps someone could create an ancient one that turns cultists into vampires.

For stake, perhaps it should physical resistance on all monsters. The idea is you are sacrificing power for a precision attack.

The art looks pretty good. It feels believable.

The drawing isn't bad. Though I'm a Buffy purist - the only real Buffy is the first three seasons. If it was me, I'd use images from those seasons.

avec said:

Well said! I agree. I'd still use the image from the comics though, since it least it's art and not a photograph, and so it fits in better with other AH characters.

A couple of thoughts on this character:

The Stake is a bit useless, since a) there aren't many Undead monsters, and b) at least a couple of them are Phys Immune. However the 'blessed' combat check idea is quite good, but I'd make it ALL that the stake does. "Physical Weapon. One-handed. +0 to Combat Checks. Each die rolled on a Combat check while using Stake gets a +1 bonus to its result." So in some circumstances, you'll be able to get better odds by using two normal weapons, but sometimes you won't, which seems like it's in-character for the clumsiness of the weapon (and the idea that it only works on certain types of creature, but that it works especially well on them).

I don't agree with DeadGuyWalking that the 0-0-1-2 Lore track is crippling , but it is a bit weird, and it could frustrate players who get dealt the character at random and then happen to pick up decent spells. Plus, Buffy may not be Einstein but she's not a total ignoramus either. I'd put the Lore track back to 0-3, and I think SE will the Focus to 1 automatically. A lack of Focus is probably more representative of the character's attitude.

Giving a character two skills also seems a bit futile... is it meant to make it more likely that she gets at least one useful skill? (If so, it's a bit of a clumsy way of doing it.) Random skills are a "high risk investment" in terms of random possessions, since SE charges about $8 for them and many of them will be totally useless to this heavily-combat-oriented character.

I wouldn't worry about the anachronism of putting Buff in the 20s. All kinds of crazy mystical **** happened in that show. They had parallel universes, astral projection, coma fantasies, shared hallucinations, psychic visions, drug-induced aboriginal dream-quests and trips to other dimensions, so I don't think 'time travel' is out of the question.

Corinthian! Where have you been all my life?

Admiral142 said:

Meh... I may in from time to time... but I'm fairly busy these days, so I can't promise I'll be around much.

thecorinthian said:

Heh... Actually, Buffy's undead fighting skills would go well against my new AO, Dracula ;'D although I really didn't design him to be nuked by another player's anti-undead fighters (I think he would still give them a run for their money though).

Ok, so I tweaked Buffy's abilities and equipement based on the feedback. I kinda agree 2 skills wasn't that logical, but for some reason I can't understand, when I made her I didn't want to give her a Unique item.

Ok, so that's the final draft. I won't made any changes to it till I,ve playtested her, which gonna happen during the following few weeks.

The next investigator on the list is finally Willow. I know I said it would be Xander, but I'm not 100% sure of his ability right now, so I'm going to wait a little. Willow won,t be ready before a couple of day minimum, but in the meantime, feel free to give your toughts on these personnal story cards for Buffy:

P.S.: For those who said the only true Buffy were Season 1-3, I assume you're not a great fan of musicals While I agree Season 4 was boring, Season 5 and 7 were pretty good and Season 6 is my second favorite season after 3. So I'm not gonna limit myself to season 1,2 or 3. Especially since I want to have Dawn as an investgator (or Ally, maybe). As for the pictures, like someone before me said, I'll use only drawings/paintings. No photos, they don't mesh well with AH.

I was about to say that she's fairly balanced, even considering that investigators would never pump up her lore. Then I saw that Scythe. No. Nope. Sorry ;')

Woah! Several problems with the scythe:

- Why not just have it give everyone else the combat bonus as soon as you gain it? Why go through that business with the Clue token?

- Does it could as an item? If so, can it be traded to someone else? If so, wouldn't that count as that other person gaining the Scythe, which would trigger the second ability again, allowing for a further +3 bonus?

- The word 'permanent' isn't very helpful. Does the bonus to other investigators continue to apply if the Scythe leaves play? If so, that bonus needs to be represented by a card or even just a unique token, so that it's possible to tell whether the bonus is in effect even if the Scythe card itself is gone. You could just move that ability on to the green story card, and say that the card isn't discarded even if Buffy is devoured. (Several investigators already have PS cards that 'outlive' them - the Rookie Cop for example).

- If the bonus is genuinely meant to be permanent for all investigators for the rest of the game, does it get applied to investigators who are drawn halfway through the game to replace people who were devoured? I think this "combat bonus for everyone" really needs to be a static bonus applied by a card that's in play, rather than being a sort of one-off permanent bonus applied by a specific event.

- And, to expand slightly on Avi's point: the scythe is way too good anyway. Waaaaaay too good.

Ok, I get that the Scythe is crappy. That's ok. Hey, I'm here to get feedback. To tell the truth, I had never tought about all the problems the corinthian mentionned.

Ok, so let's start from scratch. Let's go with what I want to represent technically, and you can then help me find a way to do it mechanically.

So, in the show, this Scythe, in addition to be a kick-ass mystical weapon, allowed Buffy and Willow to transform every Potential Slayer into a true Slayer,c reating an army of 2000+ slayers all over the world. So, I want to find a way for the scythe to boost every investigators Fight or Stamina. The Scythe is still a weapon, so Buffy could still use it. And maybe I should say it could not be traded. After all, it was a weapon made for the Slayer.

Avi-Dreader: Well, Buffy is still balanced, right? It's only the Scythe, wich goes with the personnal story, which is optional. Or is Buffy broken apart from the scythe?

Collex said:

I don't think she's a broken character. She's a pretty good fighter, but she's not the only one, and her horrible lore is a bit of a potential handicap. I only thought the Scythe was highly problematic. Thematically, I would bump her focus down one, and raise her speed by one (she *is* the Slayer after all, and she is sort of an ADD type character). Realistically, I doubt players will be recalibrating her stats very often anyways. Luck will stay staionary, speed will stay stationary, the only question is fight or will. It doesn't really require 2 focus.

Scythe could raise other players maximum stamina and sanity by one while also providing a fight and will boost of one. This would still be *very* powerful, but it wouldn't allow them to cut through every monster like butter.

Avi_dreader said:

Well, I don't know about the Sanity and Will. The Slayer's Power makes girls stronger, not more sane, as evidenced by rogue slayers such as Faith or a bunch of gun-ho fascist slayer in Season 8 comics.

Having it boost each other player Max Stamina and Fight by one is a good idea too. And I could probably write on the story card that if Buffy is devoured, the Scythe gets passed to the player to your left. Because the Scythe survive Buffy demises, as it was first invented for the Fray comics, which are set in the future...

As for Buffy Speed/Focus, that you see is a difference of point of view. Someone else on this forum told me that Focus 2 was very good. Also, I don,t get why her speed should be so high. Everybody tells me she's the Slayer, but I don't think she's that fast, at least from how I interpret the show... As I said, no modification to her skills until I playtest her. With all the feedback I got, I can't improve her without seeing how she does in the game.

Collex said:

That's what I'm here for!

Here's one idea for the Scythe: "Magical Weapon. Two-handed. Any Phase: Exhaust to gain +5 to a Combat check. Any player may exhaust this card this way."

It doesn't directly make other investigators stronger, but it would still be one of the most fantastically useful items for the group to have, provided they co-operate. Buffy keeps hold of the Scythe, and as long as she keeps it refreshed, then whoever gets into trouble , whereever that person is , they can use the Scythe in combat. Once a turn only, of course, so whoever uses it has to get it right first time.

(Since this is 'action-at-a-distance', It's the sort of ability which might "break the game" in a few situations. A safer way of doing it might be to make the Scythe actually move around when it gives someone else the bonus. So for example. "Any phase: Exhaust to gain this card and gain +5 to one Combat check. Any player may use this ability." Technically anyone could steal the Scythe from Buffy... but the players have to learn to get along anyway, or they're doomed...

Collex said:

::Shrug:: feel free to not change sanity or will, but I think the focus of 2 is a mistake, it's just not going to help her much, her abilities are so concentrated, you're hardly ever going to want to move your skill sliders. As for speed, she does have enhanced agility in the show. Athletic skills are reflected in investigator movements. Take Rita Young for instance. Whereas old or frail investigators tend to have lower speed.

thechorinthian: Oh, I like that. Not the most perfect match thematically, but very useful and very cool notheless. As for it being powerful, sure, but then, there is only one way to have the Scythe, you can't just draw it like any Unique Items, so it can be a little more powerful. I also like that it forces the investigator to cooperate, which is very much the point of the game and a important theme in the show.

However, I don,t understand in which situation it could break the game. Maybe I could word it like that: "Exhaust to give any investigator, including yourself, +5 to one combat check." In that case, the Scythe would be similar to the Researchist ability: anybody can ask to benefit from it.

Avi-Dreader: Hmm, sorry. I didn't to rub you off the wrong way. What i wanted to say about speed/focus is that different people told me different things, in addition to what I think, and that the only way to see who's right is to playtest it. That,s why I don't want to change anything (apart from the Scythe) yet. I don't necessarily think that you're completly wrong, but I'll have to test it first.

Collex said:

I liked the musical and a few episodes like Hush and Conversations with Dead People. But most episodes after season three were mediocre fare like Life Serial and As You Were.

You want Dawn? Really? What's the opposite of an Ally? How about a Detriment card called "Dawn."

I don't think "Slayer's Vow" is accurate, since she never took a vow not to use guns, unless it was in the comic books. You could call it "Those Things Never Help," which she actually said in Flooded (I'm sure I'm paraphrasing slightly).

I don,t get why her speed should be so high. Everybody tells me she's the Slayer, but I don't think she's that fast, at least from how I interpret the show...

In many episodes, she flits from location to location in Sunnydale almost immediately. It's never acknowledged in the show that she can move quickly, so it's more like a meta-commentary. Maybe it could be a special ability - she can expend 2 clue tokens to move like the patrol wagon for a turn.

Collex said:

All I meant was that this version of the Scythe's ability will produce some odd effects in some situations, and you need to come up with a house rule or two to explain how it works. There's no precedent for investigators using each other's cards. So for example, how does it work if Buffy is Lost in Time and Space? Can other investigators still use the Scythe?

Here's a theme-appropriate idea for Dawn: "+1 Sneak, +1 Luck. Discard Dawn to awaken the Ancient One."

For Dawn,I would to make her an investigator. I wanted her to be able use her stamina (blood) instead (or in addition to) of clue token to seal gates. Because, in theory, Dawn's blood can close the gate she created in The Gift. Buffy just decided to use her blood instead, but Dawn's blood would have worked. So that's my ability for Dawn. And I just love the character, especially when she begin to be develloped more in S7 and S8.

As for the "she move from location to location" isn't just because it's a tv show and things have to go faster? That,s how I see it anyway. That's one of the thing at the top of my playtest list by the way: Speed vs Focus.

I don't think "Slayer's Vow" is accurate, since she never took a vow not to use guns, unless it was in the comic books. You could call it "Those Things Never Help," which she actually said in Flooded (I'm sure I'm paraphrasing slightly).

I admit she never took a vow in the strictest sense of the word. But she never, ever uses gun, even when she is given the opportunity to use one. Furthermore,in the recent issues of Season 8, Buffy and all the slayers have lost their power and the army is marching toward them. Buffy instruct all her slayers to use guns, but she refuse to use one herself. She prefer to call upon dangerous magic rather then gun. So it mght not be a vow in form, but it is surely one in intent. The only exception to that was when she use the rocket launcher on the Judge, but it was the only way to kill him. She never use it again (well, there is always the Season 7 episode when she almost use it to kill the Principal, but she was under a love spell powerful enough to work on even Willow, the lesbian uber-witch).

As for the Scythe, would the formualtion I suggested prevent the "Lost in Time and Space" problem? Because you can still use the reroll ability of the researchist (or the prevent 1 damage ability of the expedition leader) when the character is lost in time and space. Anyway, a house rule or two never hurt anyone.

avec: Ok, Life Serial wasn't that good, but I happen to like As you Were. Anyway, both these episode aren't worse than Bad Eggs, a season 2 episode and the worst in the whole show I think. Apart from those you mentionned, The Body, Normal Again, Tabula Rasa, Wrecked, Gone, Potential, Him are all excellent episode.

Collex said:

I won't try to defend every episode from seasons 1-3. Though I think it's funny that you picked Wrecked, Gone, and Potential. They might be my three least favorite episodes. Even the episode where the giant ***** gets thrown into the meat grinder was better than those. The later seasons of Buffy do seem to have a fan base. I guess it's good that SOMEBODY likes them, 'cause they're sure not getting any love from me.

Bad Eggs wasn't that awful, the worst buffy episode is I Robot, You Jane. Seasons 1-3 were generally good, 4 had several good one-off episodes but a terrible arc, 5 suffered from having a relatively good arc, but spending far too much time on it, such that we never got any one-off episodes. Oh, and Ben .

I haven't seen the last two seasons, though most people I know seem to consider them pretty poor.

Oh, and in an attempt to stop this thread wandering completely off-topic, I like the Buffy investigator. The Scythe needs a little work, and I'll add my voice to the people preferring Lore 0-3. Why? Well, no investigator ever printed has Lore lower than 0-3. While Buffy is scarcely a fount of knowledge, nothing in her characterisation points towards her being monumentally stupid or ignorant.

Please do a Willow.

YellowPebble said:

Stupider than Hank, Buffy drools alot.

Avi_dreader said:

When it comes to drool, avi, you're the expert.

I vote Xander for next investigator. Or Giles.

avec said:

Most people can't see inside the shadows of my hood, but I assure you, avec speaks the truth.