I created a good doc to analyse efficient of characters and their abilities in the game. Specifically, I wanted a way mathematically solve for how efficient character are to each other.

Please note that I am completely neglecting two big items which is balance/redistribution, and spike/burst damage.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JaO1MVllj1R83ys9uHDo9qG-RR5XdaXi3fxLpGlWC-E/edit?usp=sharing

The big thing I would like help on is some of the assumptions, particularly the round action assumptions (anyone can create comments in the spreadsheet). i.e. I am assuming that a hero will rest once (1) every two (2) rounds, or move every 3 rounds, and attack once (1) every round.

Below is the current output

(assuming most attacking abilities are not used 1 time per game)

(additionally, movement gained after attacks modified to not be useful 2 time per game)

from what I can see, Saska is the worst because she only converts one thing for another. little is ever generated from her abilities.

Additionally, Jerrod is look extremely efficient with his droid getting 2 attacks of Blue green dice with +1 auto pierce. I am uncertain if this is true or if I am missing something.

With campaign efficiency I usually tend to consider what people calls "turn efficiency". Basically an estimation of "how many things" you can do. In an old post about Gideon I used as a measurement unit "equivalent actions", in other words any effect that taken alone or together with others can be equivalent to an action are accounted as "equivalent actions". I ended up saying Gideon can get as powerful as 2.25 "equivalent heroes" (4.5 equivalent actions per activation). Here is the way I did the math:

Golan, you are correct, very similar, I just take it a farther and calculate it for all heroes. Gideon is by far the most straight forward and probably the king of efficiency. I should also mentions that your 2.25 equivalent heroes is actually 2.25 baseline heroes (not equivalent hero with 10xp of abilities).

I have two current issues with the analysis.

Currently, all melee heroes tend to have higher efficiency because they have extra movement abilities. all melee heroes should get a reach weapon to help optimize movement although I am also considering apply a 0.8 movement point modifier specifically for them.

All defensive abilities are mostly garbage (efficiency wise) because smart imperials will focus fire or attack heroes with no defensive abilities... I believe this to be a valid statement but I could be convinced otherwise.

23 minutes ago, kyo55082 said:

All defensive abilities are mostly garbage (efficiency wise) because smart imperials will focus fire or attack heroes with no defensive abilities... I believe this to be a valid statement but I could be convinced otherwise.

See Jarrod with two melee weapons (for double Parry) and Mutual Progression. Focus-firing doesn't help much there even if you can keep the imperial units on the map long enough to take their shots. (And Parry gives Jarrod movement point with Forward Momentum.)

A1bert,

you are right, this is one of the potential tipping points because he can get an average of 3.666 blocks per attack. this will make him nearly impossible to be wounded with average units and even difficulty to stun/bleed.

Although, if I was imperial I would specifically take units just to kill jerrod OR have abilities that help negate that monster of blocking potential. i.e. I am currently playing as imperials with the mercenary deck and can guarantee a minimum 9 damage single shot (10.6 damage average) from a single hired gun parting shot... this means that I can still wound jerrod in 2 turns simply from parting shots on hired guns... (although I am also thinking that the mercenary deck is stupidly OP)

Although, I am still split because most imperial decks cannot pull off what I mentioned above. Would this build then be an extremely good deterrent? Or should I extend the round to kill to 3 with an average usage of defense rolls of 2 per round of being attacked?

I didn't understand how EF is estimated for an ability so I can just give my opinion comparing stuff, and it looks to me Jyn is overrated. You can't value "potential" abilities as if you apply them no matter what. In example you valued Get Cocky (which is potential) exactly the same as Rallying Shout which is 100% chance to be once per activation, I'm sure there are better examples but you got what I meant: potential effects vs reliable effects. Also you valued Opportunist 2. Now you can get opportunist twice per activation and that's worth 2 - potential - movement points (it's half an action, in the best case). This is for you same as Mobile Tactician which can give you 2 movement points (half an action) per activation. Fair enough. First of all, if you want to exploit such EF from Jyn you are limited to make 2 attacks with her and nothing else. Instead Mobile Tactician for Gideon is almost 100% once per activation (if you don't use command I wonder why you brought Gideon), actually it can create synergies with Masterstroke which will potentially double the efficiency of Mobile Tactician. That EF number doesn't take into account important aspects like flexibility and synergies (which should also be evaluated keeping an eye on items, supplies and other class abilities at least from same hero).

Golan,

exactly, EF tells one part of the story... it by all means does not tell the full picture. synergy, and flexibility are currently neglected which is also why Diala is so low, but that does not mean she is not a great hero.

Jyn has a number a very harsh weaknesses,

1. 10 health, 4 endurance with only quickdraw to help defend means she will easily get wounded and suffer from the 3 endurance while wounded

2. nearly every ability only gives her movement or strain back with only a single +1 damage on quickdraw. her source of damage is almost exclusively from her weapon which must be a pistol

I believe that these two items stated above makes Jyn a mediocre to under powered hero.

EDIT:

I have added a lot of minor effects mostly a 0.87 modifier on abilities that an average will not be used 1 round per game. This has definitely evened out most of the efficiency calculations with only a few outlier. the big ones are Jerrod at 10.85 and Saska at 3.67, both calculations look accurate...

Thanks for taking into account feedback I gave you. I looked a bit more into Jarrod this time. I'll let you know about other heroes, as soon as I have time to think about them, usually on week days during commuting.

I'm currently running Jarrod and I bought Mech Master. It's awesome, Jax is better than some heroes at doing damage. This card is like a second Droid Mastery, you basically get a second activation of Jax (potential but at no strain cost) and also the efficiency of the droid is increased because the attack is now decent. Let's say that 1 of the 2 actions of Jax gets doubled efficiency because of the focus. It's:

Second potential Droid Mastery without cost: 1.50 (is approx equal to Droid Mastery)
Droid Mastery value added by focus: 0.75
Second Droid Mastery value added by focus: 0.75

It's more a 3 rather than 3.75, perhaps more than 3 because of extra HPs, but not a lot more than 3.

Leaping slash is a 2 in my opinion. You definitely recover the strain from surge, the action spent results in an attack with the main weapon in any case, and net gain is 2 movement points like Fenn's Tactical Movement. You can decrease 2 a bit because this isn't as straightforward as Tactical Movement. However considering sinergies of Vibroclaws and Responsive Armor I wouldn't bring this down to 1.51 (1.75?)

Explosive Reflexes is good in 2 cases. First one is when you make your opponent miss the attack replacing a blue die with a red die. However this is situational and at risk of higher damage received. Second case, finally you can make damage using Leaping Slash attack with Vibroclaw. It penalizes strain recovery and returns from Responsive Armor in favor of damage. I see into this card no efficiency at all, it's one die for another. You can value the extra endurance as if it was 1 movement per round that results approximately in half Fenn's Tactical Movement. This is a 1, perhaps 1.25 if you consider that extra endurance makes rests more efficient.

Parry can't be 1, it's 1 or 2 potential blocks per round. Mutual Progression gives 2MP and 1 block per attack reliably. If Tactical Movement for 2MP is worth 2EF, then Mutual Progression has to be 2 and a little more for the blocks (2.25?). I would say that Parry should be less than Mutual Progression minus those 2EF for the movement points (for me it's a 0.15).

Droid master was 1.5EF and now is 1.19EF: (J4X-7 normal attacks - defenders dice +1 pierce [supporting fire] ) * (6rounds - 1)/6rounds [assume he will not help or attack 1 round] - 2 strain / 6rounds [cost to summon the first time]

I am not factoring in J4x-7 health because I am assuming 4 health 0 block = 2 strain (a net zero, and possibly a gain for the rebels).

mechanical master is currently: (J4x-7 new focused attack - defenders dice + extra green dice for droid master) * (6rounds - 1)/6rounds [assuming he will not attack 1 round per game]

The extra 2 health on Jerrod is added directly into his health pool EF. I am also not taking a 2nd +1 pierce from supporting fire which I probably should add with a (rounds - 2)/rounds modifier.

Parry or Mutual progression is currently: 6 blocks / 6rounds [assuming 2 attacks on Jerrod per round over a 3 round period]

I am assuming a smart imperial will focus Jerrod hard with high damage attacks and wound him as quickly as possible. This is especially true because Jerrod's rests are extremely efficient at 6 endurance.

Leaping slash was 1.51EF and is now 2.08EF: ( 2 yellow dice - 1 black dice + pierce 2 - surge - strain + 2 movement * 0.8 (melee modifier) * (6rounds - 1) / 6rounds [assuming movement is not useful in one attack] ) Multiply everything by (6rounds - 1) / 6rounds assuming he will not attack 1 round per game.

I originally calculated based off just getting the strain and +1 damage token but the math is better if I just perform a normal attack.

I have not thought about using explosive reflexes to make the imperial miss... I only calculated it with red dice - blue dice. I think I will just keep this for calculations sake.

Jerrod is still 2-3EF points above everyone else...

Parry can add an evade, which often corresponds to 2 blocks.

3 hours ago, a1bert said:

Parry can add an evade, which often corresponds to 2 blocks.

True, I completely forgot. My imperial just ignores me and I use parry rarely

the question I struggle with is the word "often" blocks 2 damage...

1. what percentage of imperial units have +2 surge abilities and/or will an imperial pick units that don't rely on +2 surge (specifically if he is looking to wound jerrod)

2. the majority of +2 surges are pierce 2 is not always useful because the enemy only rolls 1 block. (although, Jerrod specifically could be an exception)

3. how often does an imperial roll extra surge (a common issue in imperial efficiency because they cannot recover a strain with extra surge)

I think I will count the number of times an evade would have blocked an extra damage next game to see if I can quantify the number.