Hey. I'm going to get a LOT of flak for this. But I have no choice.

My players love the new WFRP so much that they want to use those rules if we ever play Dark Heresy again.

My goal: find a way to use as much as reasonably possible from WFRP in Dark Heresy.

...and FAST.

There are a few threads touching this subject, but I can't find anything concrete or usable without a lot tweaking, photoshopping and number crunching.

If you were going to do this conversion as FAST as possible, what would you do?

Some things that will for sure be brought over in some shape or form:

- Party Sheet

- Initiative rules

- some way to bring in boons and banes which can appear regardless of success/failure.

My other goal in this thread is to gather links to similar discussions on the FFG forums. It would be awfully nice to be able to have a one-stop reference page for all of these ideas.

I will hunt out some of them on the Dark Heresy forum, but if any of you already know of any, please post them here!

You'd need "The Formula."

I thought about creating "the formula" for WFRP2 conversion. I suppose now would be a good time:

1. Characteristic conversion: Tens dice = # characteristic dice. (48% would be 4 blue dice..probably round up since DH has more powerful characters)

2. Skills = Convert as close as necessary.

3. Weapon damage = maximum on the die (YES?/NO?)

4. Wound Threshold = unchanged

The open stuff is:

1. Expertise dice (wing it)

etc.

jh

Hey Nec.

I'm working on a fairly simple and fast conversion, which still lets you use all the Dark Heresy material without the need to spend hours converting rules.

I'm just about to go to work but I'll return with specifics tomorrow.

Cheers.

-L

Awesome. Thanks guys. I'm looking forward to more discussion.

As Emirikol suggested, converting skills might be easier than I thought. The Ascension book for Dark Heresy has elite "groupings" of the many skills into just a few. I wonder if this organization and streamlining of skills could be used...

Okay, so according to Ascension Preview 1.pdf from ( http://new.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=1113 ), here is a list of the Mastered Skills (each one has the word Mastery, but I've omitted it for brevity):

Athletics (Acrobatics, Climb, Contortionist, Dodge, Swim)

Commerce (Barter, Evaluate)

Common Lore (Common Lore - all)

Cryptological (Cyphers - all, Secret Tongue - all)

Decadent (Carouse, Gamble, Performer)

Charismatic (Blather, Charm, Command)

Driving (Driving - all)

Fieldcraft (Navigation - surface, Survival, Tracking, Wrangling)

Forbidden Lore (Forbidden Lore - all)

Investigation (Inquiry, Interrogation, Intimidate)

Linguistic (Lip Reading, Literacy, Speak Language (list goes here))

Observation (Awareness, Scrutiny, Search)

Piloting (Pilot - all, Navigation - stellar)

Scholastic (Logic, Scholastic lore - all)

Shadow Craft (Deceive, Disguise, Security, Sleight of Hand)

Stealth (Concealment, Silent Move, Shadowing)

Tech Lore (Chem-Use, Demolition, Medicae, Tech Use)

Warp Lore (Invocation, Psyniscience)

So in all honesty, I would set these up just the same as in WFRP- some are Basic, some aren't (Tech Lore, Warp Lore, Forbidden Lore etc...). They can be trained for an expertise die once per rank. Each of the sub categories is a specialty. Not bad, I guess.

So looking at skills, I really think that this could work.

Instead of +10/+20, you have the Expertise dice. The third one is like getting the Talented: skill ability (+30).

All the Talents, though... Not sure how they compare to the Action and Reputation/Focus/Tactic Cards in WFRP. That's going to be difficult.

Obviously, this would be a hybrid. I'm not going to print out hundreds of cards. For Basic stuff though, I will.

So I finally got it all (I think) written in a form that others may be able to understand. Let me just underline that this hybrid system has not been play tested and is very much a WIP. I am also aware that it does not conform to the rules light trait of WFRPG 3rd but it does allow for a fairly easy and quick conversion of the 3rd dice system into DH system. When first I started working on a conversion I tried with making 30 basic careers ala 3rd and creating lots of special rules for each careers etc. but found that it was very time consuming and probably very unbalanced. So I have opted for this easier hybrid which might actually be finished and still makes use of the immense wealth of options provided by DH.

Any suggestions and feedback is welcome. Hope this is of any use to you Necro. I will post a link to some of the action cards once I have finished some of them.

This ’system’ has been created with the following point in mind.
- All Dark Heresy material must be easily useable without the need for time consuming conversion

1: To address the above point I will base this system on the DH system and change the following things:
- Use a form of the diverse Dice system of WFRPG 3rd (henceforth called DICE)
- Use the combat system of WFRPG 3rd including action cards, condition cards and stance.
- Use the fatigue system of WFRPG 3rd
- Possibly use the magic system of WFRPG 3rd for psykers in DH. (this is a point I’m waiting to address until the new magic expansion is released, to give me a better idea of where that system is heading)
- Probably keep the insanity and corruption system of DH

Character Creation, Stats, Skills, XP & levelling.

To create a character, use the system as is in DH using D10. Several Talents and skills need minor adjustments in order to fit with the DICE and combat system. See individual skills and talents.

XP and careers stays the same as does the expenditure of XP in order to advance.

The Combat System
The combat system is where the biggest changes have been made in order to accommodate both action cards, stance, fatigue/stress and the DICE.

Which dice to roll when?
First let’s have a look at the stats and what they represent. In DH we have the nine stats each represented by a percentage number. A typical starting character might look like this:

WS: 33 BS: 44 St: 32 T:25 Ag:41 Int:38 Per:32 WP:37 Fel: 37

Whenever a character is asked to make a test based on one of his stats he uses the following method:
For each number in the ten-digit in your stat take one Characteristic DICE. If the one-digit number is between 5 and 9 add one white Fortune DICE.

E.g.: The stat line given above would give the character:

WS: 3b; BS: 4b St: 3b T: 2b1w Ag: 4b Int: 3b1w Per: 3b WP: 3b1w Fel: 3b

b= Blue Characteristic DICE. w= White Fortune DICE

If a stat is later raised from say 36 to 41 switch the fortune dice to a characteristic dice. 36 (3b+1w) to 41 (4b)

Action Cards instead of half/full action
Most of the cards in WFRPG 3rd can be used with little or no change. There are probably some that are not as fitting. I haven’t gone through them all yet. I imagine that these action cards are available to characters for a cost of 100xp unless specially given by a Talent.

The basic action cards and basic active defence cards are still in use (with minor changes to the ‘special’ of basic active defences yet to come). In addition there is the Suppress Fire basic action card.

Non basic action cards
There are a few non basic action cards that I want to create or change from how they work in 3rd at the moment. I will post a link once I have made them. Beneath is a short description of the changes or ideas behind the cards.

Double strike – increase difficulty
Twin Pistols – new card

Manoeuvres:
I’ve chosen to split manoeuvres into two groups. Each group affects either fatigue or stress when used as a non-free manoeuvre.
The manoeuvres from WFRPG 3rd are all used. In addition the following list is added:

Semi-auto burst
Full auto burst
Called shot
Aim
Reload
Brace weapon
Clear Jam

Semi-auto burst (1) (fatigue)
When using this manoeuvre in conjunction with a ranged attack, add 1 Fortune DICE to the dice pool. In addition add the following Generic lines to the card used.
<Boon> You hit an additional time with the weapon fired
<Bane><Bane> You expend twice the amount of ammo
<Chaos Star> The weapon jams if any double is rolled on the D10’s

Full auto burst (1) (fatigue)
When using this manoeuvre in conjunction with a ranged attack, add 3 Fortune DICE to the dice pool. In addition add the following Generic lines to the card used.
<Boon> You hit an additional time with the weapon fired
<Boon<>Boon> You hit an additional time with your weapon
<Bane><Bane> You expend twice the amount of ammo
<Chaos Star> The weapon jams if any double is rolled on the D10’s

Brace Weapon (1) (fatigue)
You setup your heavy weapon

Reload Weapon (varies) (fatigue)
See weapon stat for how many manoeuvres it cost to reload the weapon. If the cost is higher than one, these manoeuvres can either be spent in the same round or over several rounds. You suffer stress instead of fatigue if used in the same round.

Called Shot (1) (stress)
Add 2 Misfortune DICE to the dice pool. If you hit you may decide which hit location is hit. This manoeuvre cannot be used in conjunction with burst fire. This manoeuvre must be followed by an attack action.

Aim (1) (stress)
Add 1 Fortune DICE to the dice pool. You suffer 1 stress if other manoeuvres are used in the same round as this. May not be used with burst fire. This manoeuvre must be followed by an attack action.

Clear Jam (1) (stress)
To clear a jam, take a Ballistic Skill test. If you succeed the jam is cleared. The weapon needs to be reloaded and all ammo remaining in the clip is lost. If the test is failed the weapon is still jammed and you can try again next round.

The DICE pool.
The dice pool will consist of blue characteristic dice, possibly stance dice, any fortune dice, misfortune dice and at least 1 Challenge dice. On top of that roll 1D10 and 1 percentile dice (D10 with 10,20,30 etc.)

The two D10 will tell several different things.
1. Hit location. The number rolled shows where the shot hits as per the DH rules.
2. Jam. If a double even number is rolled, the weapon jams after any shots have been resolved. If the weapon has the unreliable trait any double will cause a jam. If the weapon is reliable it will only jam on a double 0.
3. Damage. The D10 with single digits tells how much damage is caused to the target.

Stance
All careers have 2 conservative pieces and 2 Reckless pieces. They can buy 1 additional piece for 500xp (?).

Fatigue/Stress system
The fatigue and stress system is used as written in WFRPG 3rd. Recovery of fatigue and stress likewise.

Weapon Traits
A list of the weapon traits in DH and the changes made. Only the traits with changes are listed.

Balanced: Adds an additional misfortune dice to the pool when using the Parry active defence
Defensive: Allows the use of the Block active defence
Flexible: Cannot use Parry active defence against this weapon
Overheats: Overheats on any double of the D10’s
Power Field: Parrying weapons are destroyed if D10’s show 01-75
Scatter: Adds generic line to ranged attacks: for each additional <S> add +2 damage to result
Shock: Staggered instead of stunned if using 3rd condition system
Tearing: Choose highest result of D10’s when considering damage
Unbalanced: Your Parry active defence card adds 1 fortune dice to the pool in addition to any misfortune dice
Unstable: Use D10 percentile dice to determine how the damage is affected
Unwieldy: Cannot use the Parry active defence card with this weapon

Healing
As this system most likely has more successes on hit rolls, I will use the more generous recovery system of 3rd, healing a number wounds each full rest according to a resilience (toughness) check. I’d allow each career access to the First Aid skill for 100xp at rank 1.

Probably will use the critical system of 3rd too, possibly adding or making new cards based on some results from the DH core book crit tables.

Checks Modifiers
Consult the table below for modifier conversions from DH rules.

+10 - 1 Fortune dice
+20 - 2 Fortune dice
-10 - 1 Misfortune dice
-20 - 2 Misfortune dice

Being trained in a skill adds 1 expertise dice to the pool.
Being trained +10 in a skill adds 2 expertise dice to the pool.
Being trained +20 in a skill adds 3 expertise dice to the pool.

Shooting at short range adds 1 fortune dice to your pool.
Shooting at long range adds 1 misfortune dice to your pool.
Shooting at extreme range adds 2 misfortune dice to your pool. Pistols cannot shoot at extreme ranges.

Using a non-proficient weapon adds 1 challenge dice.

Ranges
I am a fan of the loose range measures of 3rd and would play my games the same way. I think though that for two reasons I will keep the metric measures. First, it saves time converting the many weapon ranges and second, the way we play it in my group (where I’m not the GM) is still very loose even though things still have metric measures.

A loose comparison:
Engaged = 0-3m
Close = 4-25m: Engaged to close distance move costs 1 manoeuvre
Medium = 26-50m: Close to medium distance move costs 1 manoeuvre
Long = 51-100m: Medium to long distance move costs 2 manoeuvres
Extreme = 101-200m: Long to extreme distance move costs 3 manoeuvres
Far = 201m+

All manoeuvre costs are cumulative.
I’d probably rule that you can move a full move distance at the cost of one manoeuvre.

Skills
With the above guide lines you should be able to translate most skills from DH into this hybrid. You can either use the skills that exist in the core book buying them with XP as you would in a normal DH game or you could meld them into bigger groups as seems to be done in Ascension. I’ll wait till I have the book in my eager hands to decide.

Talents
Talents needs a bit more work. I have made a list of all the talents with the changes I have made to them (so far). A lot of them can be used straight out of the book perhaps only with dice translation as explained above. Note only those talents with changes have been listed. Talents with ‘?’ needs a bit more thinking.

Ambidextrous: Reduces penalty of double strike action card
Arms master: Reduces the penalty of using non-proficient ranged weapon to 1 MF
Assassin Strike: Cut & run Action Card or add the following generic line to all melee attack action cards: <B><B> Perform a manoeuvre for free.
Battle Rage: ?
Berserk Charge: May use Parry active defence card even when frenzied
Blades master: Re-roll the DICE pool once per round
Corpus Conversion: ? Depending on choice of psychic system
Counter Attack: Riposte action card
Crack Shot: Generic line added: <B><B> + 1 critical
Crippling Strike: Generic line added: <B><B> + 2 critical
Dead Eye Shot: Called Shots penalty reduced to 1 MF dice
Crushing Blow: action card or perhaps no change
Die Hard: ?perhaps PC can suffer 1 extra crit before dying
Disarm: New action card
Dicipline Focus: Add Fortune dice to powers manifested of specific school
Double Team: Gain bonus equal to Flanking Manoeuvre Talent card
Dual Shot: Adds expertise dice to pool when using Twin Pistol action card
Dual Strike: Adds expertise dice to pool when using Double Strike action card
Feedback Screech: Loose free manoeuvre
Furious Attack: New action card
Hip Shooting : Redundant with the 3rd manoeuvre/fatigue system system
Iron Jaw: Staggered instead of Stunned if using the 3rd condition cards
Lightning Attack: ? possibly new action card
Lightning Reflexes: Add 2 Fortune dice to Initiative rolls
Luminent Blast: action card
Luminen Shock: action card
Master Orator: Either no changes or possibly bonus to Fel action cards
Meditation: Removal of stress in some way yet to be thought up
Mighty shot: as crushing blow
Paranoia: add 2 fortune dice to initiative rolls
Power Well: Depending on psychic system chosen
Precise Blow : No penalty for Called Shots with a melee weapon
Psy Rating: Depending on psychic system chosen
Rapid Reaction: Cannot be surprised or Test agility to negate
Sharp shooter: No penalty for Called Shots
Sprint: You gain an extra free manoeuvre per round. May only use this for moving
Step Aside: bonus to dodge or requirement for improved dodge
Street Fighting: Add generic line when fighting with knives or unarmed: <B><B> +1 critical
Swift Attack: action card?
Takedown: New action card
Technical Knock: Unjam weapon without test
True Grit: Shrug It Off action card
Two Weapon Wielder: Reduce penalty of Double Strike or Twin Pistol action cards to 1 MF dice
Wall of Steel: Bonus to Parry or requirement for Improved Parry action card

I just realized that atm there isn't anything that awards expertise dice to melee or ranged attacks. One (easy) solution could be to add 1 expertise dice when you improve your WS/BS to intermediate, trained and expert (in addition to the +5 bonus). Note this bonus is only added to WS/BS.

Another solution could be to add a [weapon group] Training +10 and +20 (as skills) at +1 and +2 career ranks after you can buy the normal Talents. Cost is +100xp and +200xp of Normal Talent. E.g. Scum can buy Basic Weapon Training (Bolt) at rank 5 for 100xp. At rank 6 he would get access to Basic Weapon Training (Bolt) +10 at a cost of 200xp and at rank 7 Basic Weapon Training (Bolt) +20 would be available for 300xp.

Side tracking careers that span several ranks (e.g. Templar Calix) can have the same advances at a cost of +200xp and +400xp.

What do you think?

This is the link to where I'll post the action cards supporting the above Hybrid system. More cards will follow.

Cheers

-L

Hi, I've made some conversion for me and my friends and liked your take on Semi-Auto and Full-Auto rules. I was planning on uploading my rules and cards, would you mind if I use those two rules (and any other rule, I've seen other peoples' work and I'm not sure where I got all the rules)?

While only really just starting (actually I'm making sure I know the WFRP3 rules well enough to do the translation), Kreigshammer will eventually be a resource for this...

I will be waiting for your uploads (and I also realised Kriegshammer is the other inspriational work I was planning on using... ). I've uploaded some links to griefondeath.blogspot.com . No cards yet I'll be uploading some as soon as I've got time.