Okay, I updated the original version (should reflect above at some point), but I also thought it's probably better to be simplified as such...

Or a more difficult version? (I definitely like these last two better than the original, which was too convoluted.)

Grudunza said:

It's a bit like Glaaki... I liked the picture better when the icons for the losses were smaller. I don't think it visually looks good with the items on the doom track being covered.

More importantly, if an investigator has all those items in final combat, he automatically wins. You need some kind of ratcheting damage mechanism.

You could have investigators roll a die at the beginning of each round of combat and force a discard of whatever thing is shown on the corresponding doom track number.

I don't like the big icons, it's visually too intense, I thought it looked good with the small ones though.

Also, like Avi said, in Final Battle he is a bit too easy. Having one spell, 2$, one unique item, one common item and 2 clues is really not that hard, especially if you know he's gong to wake up soon. The only thing that is more difficult is that an investigator must have 3 stam and sanity (because if he has only two, he is devoured as soon as he go insane or unconscious), but again I don,t think this is that hard - you only need to plan ahead a turn or two.

Ah, no doubt. The final battle is screwy that way... Okay, back to the drawing board.

Admiral142 said:

I really like him.He is fun and different. Do you plan on putting your expansion here soon? If not, where is it available?

I have a question though - in the game I have played, money is often the scarcest ressource investigators have. You start with an amount, and from then there is a lot of opportunity to spend it and not a lot of way to gain it (the best we have found is the newspaper). Of course, I suppose that if I was playing against him, the last thing I would do before he wakes up (when is Doom Track is at 13) would be to get Bank Loan. So Imy question is: do you Expansion gives more opportunity to gain cash, in which case he would synergize well.

Avi_dreader said:

Yeah...this would probably be best, or at least some chance for Bugg to damage Sanity/Stamina or something else (if you don't want to deal with players having to lift up the doom token to check what is underneath it).

Aside from the possibility of automatic victory, the current way that it works, there's really no point to the combat checks at all, since nothing happens until a doom token is removed. I'd just skip all the rolling and take off doom tokens, discarding what I'm supposed to, until I know if I won or not. :-P

Sdrolion said:

Yeah, it's broken as is, no doubt. I just figured as long as I had the tokens on there for the build up during the game, that I'd try to incorporate them into the final battle as well. Update soon...

Alright, here's another stab at it...

Prohibiting trading during final battle would also probably help.

Avi_dreader said:

Updated as such...

Thank you for the feedback, Collex. As to your questions, I am going to be posting .pdf files and probably .eon files of my custom expansion over time on some web space I got ahold of. I'm considering what I post on these boards from here on out, "Final revisions," and information gained here will go into the final product. I tried to post the expansion once before, but I just posted the deck file .eons, which, of course, doesn't work, and then I disappeared for a long time. I'm not sure when the expansion will be fully posted (I have to type in my Arkham encounter cards which is the last step and then the whole small board expansion is done... ), but I'm bound and determined to finish this project! And it helps that my buddies have decided to do some more Arkham recently. Also, yes, my expansion does offer some more opportunities to gain money in the form of tasks, and I'll check on missions too.

One thing I was thinking of doing for Prokopios is make bank loans due when the final battle begins, or maybe make bank loans worth half the amount or something? This may be unnecessary because of his -6 and 14 "hit points" as well as his increasing attack. I need to look at his sinister plot cards again...

Grudunza said:

I really like the custom doom track, that's a neat idea! As for the worshipper power, I don't know if it would be better or worse to create a new Mi-go monster with the stats you describe and have it on the AO sheet so that whenever a Mi-go is fought, you can refer to the monster token as shown on the AO sheet. Just a thought. The final battle seems pretty tough to me! If you have a 5/5 investigator and start the battle at full, you have a good chance for a while, but when 10 and 11 are removed, your chances go way down. So I think it does ratchet down now, as Avi suggested.

Iod seems pretty hard. Often times I play with only one other player, and with his attack, the final battle could be over in as little as two rounds. Four players could be four rounds, etc (worst case scenario). Also, is the die roll in the attack affected by blessings? If player one is blessed, for example, would that be considered? Also, I think that between his huge -6 and both resistances, there would be very little chance of taking him down before the clue counters piled up. You might want to adjust the -x to something smaller. Obviously, the best plan with this guy would be to go for a seal victory. Is that what you were going for?

Just warning anyone who doesn't know who Kroen is (or about the drama he creates although that's really a separate subject) that his creations tend to be unbalanced. And of course, now he's even less likely to playtest them than ever. This Ancient one will be either draining 3 seals worth of clues during the game (presuming the game can last 15 turns), or if you don't spend the clues, statistically, the terror will rise by 7.5, and assuming some of those mythos cards add doom, you have a real doom track of 9 or eight. Considering the overpowered final battle. Good luck with that.

Assuming the game only lasts 12 turns, and you prevent the ability from activating the first six turns. First of all, it's going to cripple your early game ability to seal, second, you're *still* in all likelihood, going to have terror increases of three, and doom increases of 2. So the real doom track is 10. Of course, this isn't accounting for randomness variability, so really this thing will screw up far more games than those odds might make it seem possible.

Sure, you could get a sealing victory on it by playing a few overpowered characters (Patrice, Mandy, Wendy, Daisy), or you could take it down with a 5-8 investigator team if you were fairly experienced, but this thing doesn't scale well at all. Smaller groups will have little or no chance against it.

Before anyone goes, Hastur sucks away an additional 18 clues, I want to remind them that it's really 12-15 depending on how many Elder Signs you can get against him, and his real doom track is 13 (with no variability), and he has a very easy to defeat final battle if you keep terror under control. Even if you count final battle as a loss, it's still far easier dealing with him given the extra time and the lack of variability.

Hello World! My brave first post here. I got Arkham Horror about a month ago, and heavens, I am addicted, and finding strange eons hasn't helped curb the addiction, heh.

But, my great old one. Unknowable cosmic horrors from the abysses beyond time and space? Hey...that sounds like...

Giygas from earthbound! Thematically, I went for the idea of a JRPG, enemies never getting off of you. I've tested Giygas twice, and both were victories from sealing, so he's not the most difficult guy around the block, but I wanted some helpful criticism, or you know, outright acerbic hate if you're in a bad mood.

Thematically, the final battle is based off of the game, where to defeat him you had to pray to the people of the world to destroy him. For clarifications on how I played this, Stalker monster movement took priority over any other movement type, even yellow bordered stationary monsters. As per the rules, since the skies are adjacent to all of the streets, fights would be very frantic if anything was in the sky. Of course, this meant that the terror level never really crawled up, but the fights were long and vicious.

I'd really appreciate any sort of input! It was a lot of fun to make and play, and if it goes over well enough, I might try to make the investigators.

That's pretty cool. The only thing that doesn't quite make sense is the Attack. I think it should probably be more like, "The First Player must discard an Ally or be devoured." The way you have it worded, they could discard all of their Allies one turn, and then the next time, if they don't have any, then per the wording, they're not devoured? I know that's not your intention, but that's how it kind of reads. But having to discard one Ally is probably enough, as they're not really easy to come by and that will cause devourings pretty steadily.

Bromero said:

Very cool :') I hope you make more Ancient Ones and heralds instead of investigators though ;'D (since I don't use those).

I like it very much as it is. Its got a short doom track, but I think it's appropriately tough, and wouldn't be a total push-over in final combat. I disagree with what Grudunza said, I think an 11 doom track ancient one with no magical resistances and a -4 check might be too easy (especially in a 3-4 investigator game). If it turns out a little too easy, change his attack so he just devours the first player each round (like Quachil, but without the double immunities). Tastes for difficulty differ though (personally, I like very tough final combat— I hate final combat with most of the base game AOs).

One thing you'll need to clarify is how the stalker movement works. Do you intend for monsters that are normally stationary to move? If not, change it to "Monsters that move also move as stalkers."

I liked the phrase Devil's Machine. I have no idea what it means, but it definitely sounded cool ;'D

Avi_dreader said:

While that attack change would certainly make him more challenging, I think it would lose the flavor of what Giygas is, so I think I would like to keep the ally destroying attack. so in order to up the difficulty, do you think it would benefit more from magical resistance or a nastier combat modifier?

I intended stationary monsters to move with Devil's Machine, so I don't think I need to include an extra line to clarify. I think it helped the threat of stationary monsters by quite a bit.

Grudunza, thanks so much for the grammatical tip there. As you said, it's pretty obvious what the intention of the mechanic was, but dispelling any possible confusion is excellent. Regarding how many allies are consumed each turn, I waffled for a bit over whether it should be one ally, or all of them. Realistically, an investigator could at most eke out two allies, right? Although Ashcan Pete, or some others who start with an ally could throw it for a loop.

Thank you so much for the criticism so far, it makes me feel so warm and fuzzy. I think I'm going to start on a herald to work with Giygas. I'm going to try to build it to address the weaknesses of Giygas, primarily the terror level. I played another game with Giygas (and ended in a sealing victory again, sheesh, I want to test the final battle already.) and once again the monsters swarming the players resulted in a very controlled terror level. I'm hoping to build the herald to address that failure of Giygas, and I would love any ideas, or further revisions to Giygas himself.

Bromero said:

I had a feeling you wanted it for the theme (and I felt bad about my suggestion earlier since it seemed like a cool idea thematically, just not mechanically very functional).

Duh, I completely forgot about raising the combat modifier ;'D

I'd say a -8 combat modifier (you might think that's too high, but if everyone has one ally, that's *a lot* of turns, especially since there won't be an epic battle deck), but leave it without any resistances against magic.

If you want to raise the terror level, have two extra monsters emerge from opening or surging gates. If you're worried about gates being unguarded, force investigators to pass a combat check of some sort when either entering or exiting gates.

You should probably add ", even stationaries," after all monsters, to clarify that stationary monsters will move as stalkers, it's not obvious at all from reading the card text (even though a person might theoretically get it if they read the clarifying thread entry, I wouldn't count on that, it's always best to try to make clarifications on the cards themselves).

Another alternative for helping get the terror up, when monsters are relocated to attack investigators through Devil's Machine, replace any defeated monsters at their original location.

@Kroen

::Shrug:: I guess I'll violate my own rule about responding to anything you make since you seem to have been on mostly decent behavior for the last few days. You know, if you don't act like a whiny attention-hungry jerk this time, your presence will probably be tolerated (i.e. people will overlook your past actions, and that you are technically banned from the forum).

It's pretty well constructed. I wouldn't've minded if it kept the -1 max san/stam. The extra doom ability is problematic. A black goat effect is difficult enough, but when you make any terror increase raise doom tokens, you shorten the doom track too much, since it's unlikely that a team will be able to prevent the terror track from bumping up two or three times in a game just by natural means or card draws.

Just change it so that the terror and doom are increased by one whenever there is a monster surge and it will be fine.

Also, don't use the phrase "Resistance is futile." This is not Star Trek, and Cthulhu is not the Borg.

Shouldn't it say each time A monster surge occurs? Or is that incorrect? And I agree. That's a dumb phrase to put on here. He's not the Borg. He's an Ancient One.

Is that in reference to the one above, or in reference to ALL ancient ones in general?

_Kroen_ said:

Maybe if you were playing with Dunwitch and Black Goat. Asside from that you would eventually reach a place where seals just stopped the doom track from advancing. Id say Atlach-Nacha is harder.

That said I like the attack and the picture is good too.