Played my first game this past weekend, and while I liked almost everything about the game, like some others who have posted here I disliked the victory conditions around the agenda cards. The best part of the game to me is the detailed quest chains and encounters, and one of my issues with the victory conditions is that all these interesting quest chains just get interrupted and the game ends without their resolution. I would love to see a version of this game which is fully cooperative and where victory comes from some other process than drawing the right agenda cards.
I won our game because I happened to draw three cards which gave me additional points based on one faction being ahead of the other on the track - all three cards were for the same faction, which happened (through no action of my own) to be two points ahead of the other faction. When I drew the third card - boom, 9 points and victory, but it was very unsatisfying.
Full cooperative version
I was just going to post something similar. The end game is very odd.
The game is too short, and/or the faction track is too short, and/or there are too many faction cards in the agenda deck.
The game is super amazing, until the end when you go "oh? thats it?"
I read some review where they said this game already needs an expansion to "fix" it. I'm a huge FFG fan boy, and I normally disagree with people that say games need a house rule or fix. This game isn't necessarily broken but the end game is just weird.
I do like the faction interaction, but its too prevalent. Once the faction snowball starts rolling you have to drop everything and either jump on or try to play for the other faction so that everyone can lose.
My wife and I usually try to win together and also play the game until one faction reaches the end of the track. Gives you a more set limit you can watch for but still modify and a better feeling end rather than someone counting and then saying "oh I guess I won" Catan style.
I get the feeling that if you increased the agenda point limit it'd make for a longer game. In the two (four player) games I've played so far, I've won both times simply because I focused on getting 4 agendas as soon as possible, then waited for the moment an opponent did something that allowed me to swoop in for the win.
I'd say 11 points for a 4 player game would be pretty good, perhaps 12 for a nice long game so everyone can actually explore the storylines.
I've now played a couple of 4 players games, and I think I've changed my tune about this game.
There is almost no point in playing this game with less then 4. Except maybe to learn.
although we did get lucky and have at least 1 player working for each faction.
If all 4 ended up working for the same faction it may turn out the same as a 1 or 2 player game.
23 hours ago, KAGE13 said:I've now played a couple of 4 players games, and I think I've changed my tune about this game.
There is almost no point in playing this game with less then 4. Except maybe to learn.
After multiple plays, this is my conclusion as well. The way the quest cards are setup work best when there are competing groups of players pushing each side. With a single player, or co-op, you all those quest cards are reduced to an All Star path and an All Shield path.
On 25/01/2018 at 1:26 AM, Astech said:I get the feeling that if you increased the agenda point limit it'd make for a longer game. In the two (four player) games I've played so far, I've won both times simply because I focused on getting 4 agendas as soon as possible, then waited for the moment an opponent did something that allowed me to swoop in for the win.
I'd say 11 points for a 4 player game would be pretty good, perhaps 12 for a nice long game so everyone can actually explore the storylines.
I think you'd just end up with a faction winning every game
3 minutes ago, mazz0 said:I think you'd just end up with a faction winning every game
In each of the three games I've played so far, no faction has advanced further than three spaces before the game was over - it just progresses too quickly unless specific circumstances are met (equal number of players with red/blue loyalties, but not enough to win with a momentary advantage).
2 hours ago, Astech said:In each of the three games I've played so far, no faction has advanced further than three spaces before the game was over - it just progresses too quickly unless specific circumstances are met (equal number of players with red/blue loyalties, but not enough to win with a momentary advantage).
Huh. I've only played once (and it was solo), but one faction track got way near the bottom. How many people were you playing with? I wonder if that makes a difference.
I was playing with 4 players each time. I won all three games, simply because I focused on getting my 4 agendas before anyone else did. When the goal is 8 agenda points, 4 Agendas almost always gets you to 7 straight away. At that point you just need to change one board condition - which normally only takes 3 turns or so and you've won.
The games always end suddenly, and in the game I played last Sunday, another player won the game for me unknowingly.
17 hours ago, Astech said:I was playing with 4 players each time. I won all three games, simply because I focused on getting my 4 agendas before anyone else did. When the goal is 8 agenda points, 4 Agendas almost always gets you to 7 straight away. At that point you just need to change one board condition - which normally only takes 3 turns or so and you've won.
The games always end suddenly, and in the game I played last Sunday, another player won the game for me unknowingly.
What do you do to rush agenda cards? Lots of encounters and non-mainline quests?
A truly massive amount of encounters. We typically did 2 encounters each for every three turns of the game, and quest encounters wherever possible for the agendas.
For instance, on one turn I levelled up, and instead of getting the exact token I was looking for (Intelligence, for the laser rifle) I chose Agility for the second time, because I knew I could get two more actions on my next turn and get an agenda a turn earlier than I otherwise would.
Vault 84 is the best source of agenda cards. I've spent 5 turns sifting through the deck in order to get to the vote, which inevitably gives me (with the highest number of endorsements) two agenda cards. It's a massive boost, and really unbalances the game if the other players aren't in equally good standing.
12 hours ago, Astech said:A truly massive amount of encounters. We typically did 2 encounters each for every three turns of the game, and quest encounters wherever possible for the agendas.
Not sure if this exactly applies, but you can't perform two encounter actions at the same location in a single turn. (RR page 5 under Encounter Actions)
6 hours ago, Hedgehobbit said:Not sure if this exactly applies, but you can't perform two encounter actions at the same location in a single turn. (RR page 5 under Encounter Actions)
We were definitely aware. Our typical turn consisted of moving to the next encounter location and doing a quest action if possible, or otherwise a normal encounter.
We pretty much let the creatures come to us, rather than hunting them down (until I went hunting Deathclaws).
8 hours ago, Hedgehobbit said:Not sure if this exactly applies, but you can't perform two encounter actions at the same location in a single turn. (RR page 5 under Encounter Actions)
Doesn't apply. the way I read it was they did an encounter action 2 out of every three full turns.
1 hour ago, mwmcintyre said:Doesn't apply. the way I read it was they did an encounter action 2 out of every three full turns.
Indeed. We originally had an interpretation (first few turns of first game) that stated that a "quest encounter: could be done alongside a typical encounter, but this was rapidly overturned.