2 hours ago, DiabloAzul said:

It's too early in the morning to initialize the humour module

I don’t have any reference to time anymore. There is only working and 1-2hrs of sleep a day

1 hour ago, Drasnighta said:

I don’t have any reference to time anymore. There is only working and 1-2hrs of sleep a day

It's all realative anyways.

After flip-flopping in my head a few times, I would say that the Thrawn "reveal" does NOT trigger Grint. Here is my reasoning:

If we are to assume that the Thrawn reveal follows the same rules as a regular ship reveal, then the ship that Thrawn is equipped to wouldn't be able to activate the round he reveals and discards a Thrawn dial:

RR pg.3, Command Dials, bullets 2 and 3:

" When a command dial is spent or discarded , it is placed faceup on the ship's ship card and remains there until it is assigned as a new command during the next Command Phase ."

" A ship with a faceup command dial on its ship card cannot be activated ."

Thrawns discarded dial would be placed faceup on his ship card, and now he may not activate this round (though his ship WOULD receive a free dial as a result of his ability).

Therefore, it is my opinion that the Thrawn Reveal, particularly because the dials are placed directly on his card AND the timing of their revealing falls outside the standard dial reveal window, makes this a case of the dials acting more as "props" to show what commands the Thrawn player has chosen, and not genuine "Command Dials". Therefore, Grint should NOT trigger during the Thrawn reveal, as that is simply a prop and not a "true" command dial. Because again, if it IS a true command dial, then Thrawn's ship doesn't activate that turn as described above.

I won't deny that the reasoning is a bit sloppy due to the wording on the cards, but if it's decided that Grint triggers due to a dial revealed on his ship (from whatever source), then it stands to reason and following RAW that the discarded dial of that same source be placed faceup on the ship card and disqualify that ship from activating this round.

EDIT: Oh, and consider all the other officers that allow you to trigger them during Dial reveal... Does that now mean that an Engineering Captain can change a "Thrawn Dial" as well? This is truly a rabbit hole we don't want to go down....

RAI was clear, we now have a RAW reason to follow it. Good catch!

7 hours ago, LeatherPants said:

Thrawns discarded dial would be placed faceup on his ship card, and now he may not activate this round ( though his ship WOULD receive a free dial as a result of his ability).

No it wouldn't cause it cannot reach the "before each friendly ship activates".

I agree completely though. Good point.

4 hours ago, ovinomanc3r said:

No it wouldn't cause it cannot reach the "before each friendly ship activates".

I agree completely though. Good point.

Good catch! I forgot that the granted dial wasn't given until activation, which never happens.

In the Thrawn designer's article there is a statement on using 3 multiple commands on the same turn: " The Pursuant can even use its Title and Thrawn to resolve three different commands in one turn—in addition to whatever benefit my current Fleet Command is giving me. " The article also addresses it was play tested: " As testing went on the feedback was overwhelmingly positive." Therefore, the intent was using multiple dials on a single activation. Since upgrade rules supersede the normal rule set, both the Pursuant and Thrawn upgrades are exceptions to the rule of only using one dial during a ship's activation. In the Pursuant/Thrawn example, all three command dials would be placed next to the ship and then used at the appropriate time allowing for multiple face up dials during a single activation.

The Thrawn card is very well written. The Thrawn upgrade text "At the start of each Ship Phase, you.." is clearly "you" the player. It is not the ship because it occurs at the "start of each Ship Phase" before any ship activation. Since command dials are only "revealed" when a ship activates, any command dial revealed that matched Taskmaster Grint's token would gain a matching token. The duplicate command token rules still applies though.

31 minutes ago, B2000 said:

The Thrawn upgrade text "At the start of each Ship Phase, you.." is clearly "you" the player. It is not the ship because it occurs at the "start of each Ship Phase" before any ship activation.

Incorrect. More accurately, based on an incorrect assumption: that ships can't do things outside of their activation. There exists no such restriction, undercutting your whole line of reasoning here.

Now, it's true that there are cards on which "you" is demonstrably used incorrectly--notably, cards that either have not passed through an FAQ/errata cycle yet, or have not been pointed out until very recently. That's hardly justification to just throw out a line in the RRG wholesale in a manner that will literally shatter the balance of the entire game , in ways that many people have illustrated in different places.

RRG pg 13 UPGRADE CARDS

On upgrade card effects, the term “you” refers to the ship that the upgrade is equipped to.

I do not understand this weird push in the last week to just ignore this line...

1 hour ago, B2000 said:

In the Thrawn designer's article there is a statement on using 3 multiple commands on the same turn: " The Pursuant can even use its Title and Thrawn to resolve three different commands in one turn—in addition to whatever benefit my current Fleet Command is giving me. " The article also addresses it was play tested: " As testing went on the feedback was overwhelmingly positive." Therefore, the intent was using multiple dials on a single activation. Since upgrade rules supersede the normal rule set, both the Pursuant and Thrawn upgrades are exceptions to the rule of only using one dial during a ship's activation. In the Pursuant/Thrawn example, all three command dials would be placed next to the ship and then used at the appropriate time allowing for multiple face up dials during a single activation.

The Thrawn card is very well written. The Thrawn upgrade text "At the start of each Ship Phase, you.." is clearly "you" the player. It is not the ship because it occurs at the "start of each Ship Phase" before any ship activation. Since command dials are only "revealed" when a ship activates, any command dial revealed that matched Taskmaster Grint's token would gain a matching token. The duplicate command token rules still applies though.

I don't believe anyone is disputing that a ship in a Thrawn fleet can perform multiple commands (I assume you mean command dials) upon activation. Nor is it disputed that Grint can trigger when the ship that Thrawn is assigned to reveals a dial that matches Grints token. The crux of this entire debate has been whether the Thrawn "reveal" triggers Grint (or anything that triggers upon revealing dials), and I believe the majority consensus is currently "NO", due to the timing of the dial (outside the "reveal dial" step) and the RAW on how ship activations are handled with discarded dials. I've read the article as well, and I don't believe that the designer intended that the "Thrawn reveal" be treated as a standard dial reveal allowing it to interact with other cards.

This type of question could easily have been avoided if Thrawn's card read something along the lines of "the effect of the command of Thrawn's revealed dial is applied to each ship," that way we know we're applying the effect of the command on the dial and not actually revealing a dial which can be manipulated. I'm sure that's the intent as well.

2 hours ago, DerFurst said:

This type of question could easily have been avoided if Thrawn's card read something along the lines of "the effect of the command of Thrawn's revealed dial is applied to each ship," that way we know we're applying the effect of the command on the dial and not actually revealing a dial which can be manipulated. I'm sure that's the intent as well.

I thing Thrawn may revelea l is an easier option.

On 1/24/2018 at 5:21 PM, LeatherPants said:

I don't believe anyone is disputing that a ship in a Thrawn fleet can perform multiple commands (I assume you mean command dials) upon activation. Nor is it disputed that Grint can trigger when the ship that Thrawn is assigned to reveals a dial that matches Grints token. The crux of this entire debate has been whether the Thrawn "reveal" triggers Grint (or anything that triggers upon revealing dials), and I believe the majority consensus is currently "NO", due to the timing of the dial (outside the "reveal dial" step) and the RAW on how ship activations are handled with discarded dials. I've read the article as well, and I don't believe that the designer intended that the "Thrawn reveal" be treated as a standard dial reveal allowing it to interact with other cards.

I see your point and agree. The Thrawn dial is revealed during the start of the Ship Phase which is an exception to when command dials are normally revealed. When a ship does activate, it reveals it's own command dial and gains the Thrawn dial, which has already been revealed. Since, Grint does state when "you" reveal a command dial, it is referring to Grint's ship and that ship only revealed one dial, its own, and gained a Thrawn dial. Therefore, I too believe Grint doesn't grant a Thrawn dial token.

On 1/24/2018 at 4:01 PM, Ardaedhel said:

Incorrect. More accurately, based on an incorrect assumption: that ships can't do things outside of their activation. There exists no such restriction, undercutting your whole line of reasoning here.

Now, it's true that there are cards on which "you" is demonstrably used incorrectly--notably, cards that either have not passed through an FAQ/errata cycle yet, or have not been pointed out until very recently. That's hardly justification to just throw out a line in the RRG wholesale in a manner that will literally shatter the balance of the entire game , in ways that many people have illustrated in different places.

RRG pg 13 UPGRADE CARDS

I do not understand this weird push in the last week to just ignore this line...

Grand Moff Tarkin (Core Set) upgrade states: "At the start of each Ship Phase, you may choose 1 command. Each friendly ship gains a command token matching that command." Profundity states: "Before deploying fleets, you may set aside 1 small ship with a command value of 1." I believe these upgrades refers to "you" the player and not "you" the ship that the upgrade is equipped. Both Thrawn and Tarkin are worded the same and apply at the start of the Ship Phase while Profundity is before ships are even deployed. Sometimes I believe "you" means the player on upgrade cards and is an exception to the Upgrade Card rule.

I think upgrade cards create exceptions to the ruleset, and can easily result in confusion.

There is nothing that stops the "you" on Tarkin referring to the Ship doing the choosing.

... Since, y'know, if its destroyed, its not there to make the choice...

I mean, invariably, the you always boils down to the player by proxy. Since Ships are Inanimate.

7 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

There is nothing that stops the "you" on Tarkin referring to the Ship doing the choosing.

I mean, invariably, the you always boils down to the player by proxy. Since Ships are Inanimate.

True on both counts.

15 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

I mean, invariably, the you always boils down to the player by proxy. Since Ships are Inanimate.

Probably my favorite line posted in a long time. Incredibly simple and "duh...", but also reinforces why "you" doesn't refer to the player in respect to upgrade cards.

So, if I'm understanding correctly, we are reading Taskmaster Grint "when you reveal a command dial" to refer not to the act of revealing a command dial, but the step "Reveal Command Dial." That means it doesn't trigger off of Thrawn, because he is just exposing a disk with an action symbol, and not "Revealing a Command Dial."

I'll buy that, but if we apply this universally, doe it break anything else? Do things trigger on the step "Reveal Command Dial," even if no disk is exposed? Or only on the combination of the step and the action?

Are there any other triggers that we would want to treat the same way? Anything that triggers off of an effect that is also a activation step, or attack step, or similar? I can't think of any, but that's not exactly a telling argument.

So...this thread is old, but I've searched around on the forum and don't seem to find an official answer to it? Of the things IN the thread, of course we have this...

On 1/8/2018 at 9:35 AM, Drasnighta said:

Similar reason as to why the Thrawn dial cannot be turned into a token.

...which turned out to be different, per the FAQ...

Quote

When a friendly ship gains a command dial as part of Grand Admiral Thrawn’s effect, that ship can spend that dial to gain a matching command token.

Otherwise...where do we sit with this combo? Can Grint create a token off a Thrawn dial? Does that only work if Thrawn and Grint are on the same ship (or does that matter)?

EDIT: Nevermind, see they added a more general condition rather than answering the specific question, which covers it (and Thrawn + "Huge" ships, etc)...

Quote

Q: Do abilities or card effects that resolve when a ship reveals
its command dial resolve when a command dial placed on
an upgrade card equipped to that ship is revealed?

A: No. Effects that resolve when a ship reveals its command dial
only resolve when a ship reveals a command dial from the
stack assigned to its ship card as part of its activation.

Yep. It’s all neatly wrapped up now.

well, not neatly... but wrapped...