What happened to the Deathwatch Chaplains?

By ducky185, in Deathwatch

Posted at

Atheosis said:

Dodskrigaren said:

Atheosis said:

Urikanu said:

Atheosis said:

Dodskrigaren said:

Just to point out two things here (besides the obvious that no chapter is going to give up a chaplain to the deathwatch)...

1) Chaplains are not one per company like some people keep stating, like the Librarium of a chapter, the Chaplains are not parts of the companies usually, and the number of chaplains per Chapter will vary...for instance, the Blood Angels have alot (want proof, check out the new codex, they can put 6 on the board at the same time if they have the points) as do the Black Templars, but some, like the Dark Angels have very few (although with the dark angels, one supposes thats because to be a DA chaplain, you have to be a member of the inner circle of hereti...er, secret keepers, which would exclude anything resembling a prior member of the deathwatch). Sooo...yeah...which leads me to...

2) Chaplains earn their position like everyone else in a Chapter. The Reclusarch(s) particularly zealous (read ravening psycho, gotta remember, marines are pretty zealous to begin with) and train em up, test their faith, and give em their pretty skull mask after teaching them the rites they need to know. Which are going to vary by chapter.

Yeah. Just two things I wanted to say...

Seriously, probably not going to see a deathwatch chaplain, everything else there has been either directly in a codex/white dwarf, or implied by such. Just not chaplains.

Here ya go: wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Chaplain

Oh and this: wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/File:CodexOrganisation.jpg

Maybe the Blood Angels are oddities, but well yeah that pretty much sums it up for codex chapters. One Chaplain per company plus a Reclusiarch and Master of Sanctity is the set number.

According to the Blood Angel Codex (newest edition) the Blood Angels have 13 Chaplains in active service at any given time, but they sorta have to... since they need extras for handling the Death Company. This goes, most likely, for successor chapters as well.

That said, by the arguments above, I can see one reason to make a Chaplain 'career': To fill a void in game talents. And to allow a 'priestly' role into the team. And as long as there's no fluff that states a direct 'THERE IS NO SUCH THING' I would not outrule it. But, in the end it's all just speculation

For as long as Deathwatch has been around as an idea there have never been Chaplains amongst their ranks as far as I'm aware. I don't know if they've ever actually come out and it isn't possible, but considering the divergences between all the Chapter cults I have a hard time seeing it personally. A Wolf Priest isn't going to be able to spiritually guide an Ultramarine just as an Ultramarine Chaplain isn't going to be able to spiritually guide an Iron Hand. It doesn't really work.

Pretty much dead on imo. The Astartes don't really have a religion per se, as the do not view the Emperor as a god, so instead they have something a bit more like a warrior cult. Chaplains are the face of that cult, but since each chapter is independant of each other, there will be divergence in the cults even between two closely related Chapters (Like say the Space Wolves and the Sons of Fenris) due to socialogical drift over time. that and I'm hoping GW didn't give FFG to add to much to the lore, and I think a DW chaplain would be a bit much.

Good to know we're in agreement, but there isn't a Chapter named the Sons of Fenris. That's just one of the appellations for the Space Wolves as far as I'm aware.

Meh, ok, thats what I get for going from memory on something like a chapter no one ever really talks about much, I meant the Wolfbrothers.

Posted at

In CS Goto's Deathwatch books (Warrior Brood, Warrior Coven) there ARE Deathwatch Chaplains, one from the Black Templars, who gets it from a Zoanthrope I believe.

So I guess there could be Chaplains in the Deathwatch after all.

T

Posted at

mac40k said:

Those of you lobbying for Chaplains, what special skills and talents would he have to make him worth playing and different enough from one of the other choices?

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turinmacleod said:

In CS Goto's Deathwatch books (Warrior Brood, Warrior Coven) there ARE Deathwatch Chaplains, one from the Black Templars, who gets it from a Zoanthrope I believe.

So I guess there could be Chaplains in the Deathwatch after all.

T

Yes but Goto is an idiot...

Posted at

Black Templars will not work with any psykers except Grey Knights.

Also, as others have said repeatedly, it makes no sense for Deathwatch to have Chaplains. The marines in Deathwatch are all from different chapters, each with different cults. A Space Wolf has vastly different beliefs than an Ultramarine. A Dark Angel's beliefs and mindset are completely different from those of a Blood Angel.

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Danger said:

Black Templars will not work with any psykers except Grey Knights.

Also, as others have said repeatedly, it makes no sense for Deathwatch to have Chaplains. The marines in Deathwatch are all from different chapters, each with different cults. A Space Wolf has vastly different beliefs than an Ultramarine. A Dark Angel's beliefs and mindset are completely different from those of a Blood Angel.

Black Templars also use Navigators and Astropaths, because you sort of have to use them if you are going to be an entirely space-faring crusade chapter.

And yea, it does make no sense for there to be Deathwatch Chaplins.

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MILLANDSON said:

Danger said:

Black Templars will not work with any psykers except Grey Knights.

Also, as others have said repeatedly, it makes no sense for Deathwatch to have Chaplains. The marines in Deathwatch are all from different chapters, each with different cults. A Space Wolf has vastly different beliefs than an Ultramarine. A Dark Angel's beliefs and mindset are completely different from those of a Blood Angel.

Black Templars also use Navigators and Astropaths, because you sort of have to use them if you are going to be an entirely space-faring crusade chapter.

And yea, it does make no sense for there to be Deathwatch Chaplins.

Black Templars simply refuse to fight alongside psykers, but as you point out they do make use of them in other capacities.

Posted at

Danger said:

Black Templars will not work with any psykers except Grey Knights.

Also, as others have said repeatedly, it makes no sense for Deathwatch to have Chaplains. The marines in Deathwatch are all from different chapters, each with different cults. A Space Wolf has vastly different beliefs than an Ultramarine. A Dark Angel's beliefs and mindset are completely different from those of a Blood Angel.

MILLANDSON said:


Danger said:

Black Templars also use Navigators and Astropaths, because you sort of have to use them if you are going to be an entirely space-faring crusade chapter.

And yea, it does make no sense for there to be Deathwatch Chaplins.

I have an Idea*, this is how it “could” work. When anyone joins the Deathwatch they lay aside the bonds to their former Chapter (those differing beliefs you keep going on about, this is easier said then done but that’s all the more reason my point in a moment holds true) and swear allegiance (among other things like keeping missions secret) to the Deathwatch, we all know this to be fact. A Chaplain could do the same, he’s not watching over the others to keep in line as far as his Chapter but he’s there to keep them true to the oaths they swore to the Deathwatch (to make sure they put the Deathwatch needs over their old beliefs). He puts aside his hat as Chapter spiritual guide and instead guides the Marines in a unifying sense to faith in the Deathwatch and their brothers in it. True some Chapter’s Chaplains would not join the Deathwatch, like a Black Templar Chaplain would likely be hesitant to join them as he’d have to work with psyker types. But others might be more willing to keep an eye on any Marine, say an Ultramarine who is used to working with other Chapters and their strange ways would have two jobs in the Deathwatch. Keep the brothers true to their newly oath to the Deathwatch and their mission no matter what, and if one of them does not do that or falls to the Ruinous Powers, take action. Also we assume that they were a Chaplain before joining the Deathwatch but it is entirely true a Deathwatch Chaplain is selected by his brothers in a squad to fill the task of keeping them on straight and narrow or keeping peace between brothers who can‘t get along or something along those lines.

As I have said before I am not fighting that they be included but it just strikes me as odd that so many (with no “hard facts” to back them and cannon books [whether you hate Goto or not it is official as he was published… more than once] against them) are so hard about fighting against it. I in a few seconds gave good (not great but they are off the top of my head just now) reasons they could be included. Also if you want to just do a Chapter campaign, where the whole team is from the same Chapter, you may need Chaplains. Just a little rant.

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I envision the Deathwatch as being similar to any other chapter, except that the line troops, for the most part, are there on a (relatively) short term basis. They would have an internal structure that was fairly consistant, so Commanders, Captains, and Chaplains that remain with the Deathwatch more or less permanently, and then troops that rotate in for tours of duty. The Chaplains would be specifically trained in the doctrinal basics of most other chapters, and would limit their guidance to more universal principles, as opposed to Chapter Chaplains.

Chaplains are simply too cool to NOT use, so our campaign will have them, and we will modify the setting as need be.

T