Kanluwen said:

You do realise that's what 90% of the Imperial organisation in general is all about, when you boil it down that simplistically, right?

The Hobo Hunter said:

Duh?

It's just they're not so single minded in it. There's depth to the Imperial organization that has always been missing when I look at Black Templars.

While it's very interesting to see what Chapters will be used in this game, I think it important to point out the fact that the "Deathwatch" is a completely separate faction/chapter of Space Marines. Their more like the "Special Forces" of the Space Marines. While each character's origin would be that of any one of the Space Marine Chapters. (i.e..Ultramarines, Space Wolves, Black Templars, etc.), ultimately that would be part of the characters past, and not part of the present.

This is why I'm a bit confused as to why we are even discussing the number of chapters being used. Or have I missed something here?

You're forgetting one key part, Baziel.

Once a Marine's seconding to the Deathwatch is finished, they're returned to their Chapter unless they actually request an extension to their secondment. It leads to them doing everything they can to retain their ties to their parent Chapter, be it rituals practiced by that Chapter, or other things of that nature.

Baziel said:

I think it's very important for a number of reasons:-

1. Chapter choice affects the roleplaying "archetype" of the character. They all have different geneseed, and as such different characteristics. Space Wolves have the Canis Helix, causing them to grow long fangs and shed fur on the sofa over time. Ultramarines have the Ultra Helix, causing them to like leather skirts and films about gladiators. I jest, but the point is valid. They'll probably work like the "homeworld" origin in DH, giving some basic personality attributes to build your character around. Even though they're not currently within their chapters, bear in mind that marines are not really human any more, and that their chapter determines their geneseed and much of their personality.

2. They will have different cultural upbringings and outlooks on the universe. The Blood Angels are going to be (probably) more inclined to ruthless collateral damage than the Salamanders, who are the closest thing marines get to being "humanitarian."

3. The chapters will determine - to some extent - interaction between team members, based upon the history of their chapter. Even if Deathwatch members from the Space wolves and Dark angels get along personally, they're always going to compete against each other for the honour of their chapter, given that the two chapters are fierce rivals.

4. There may be rules mechanics which will have a bearing upon the character. An Iron Hands marine will probably have more tech skills as a matter of routine than a Space Wolf, who would be inclined to leave such things to an Iron Priest. One would imagine that a White Scars Marine would be better at tracking and raiding than an Iron Hands Marine. And so on.

My bet goes to these:

1. Codex Chapters (most Space Marines Chapters out there)

2. Descendants of Sanguinius (Blood Angels & Successors)

3. Space Wolves

4. Black Templars

5. & 6. some FFG custom idea.

Moreover, I believe there will be rules for further customization so your Marine and his Chapter of origin can be unique.

1) Dark Angels

2) Space Wolves

3) Ultramarines/Codex

4) Blood Angels (this based mostly on the artwork I have seen so far. The above three are pretty much mandatory)

5) Kinda thinking this will be one of the new FFG chapters, like the hammer-themed chapter that Brother Sergeant Agamor in PTU is from.

6) Toss up between Imperial Fists, Iron Hands, Raven Guard, White Scars and Black Templars.

I am rather hoping Grey Knights get added in the Deathwatch equivalent of the Inquisitor's Handbook. Yes, they are Ordo Malleus, and DEFINATELY NOT Xenos/Deathwatch, but..... We will have Deathwatch and Sisters of Battle. The hole is obvious. Kinda flat from a character customization angle though: You ARE a psyker. You are from the same chapter. You trained on the moons of Saturn. You use storm bolters and nemesis weapons, or maybe a psycannon (fancy holy boltgun)/Incinerator (holy flamer).

I am hoping that the "Six Chapters" thing is more along the lines of six major archetypes, with a chapter presented in detail as an example of the archetype.

So, the "Codex Chapter" archetype would have the defined traits (noble; do things by The Book; full of yourself; think Robout Guilliman was the best thing, aside from the Emperor, since sliced bread; etc.), and would of course detail the Ultramarines as an example of the archetype.

The main problematic archetypes for this approach I can think of are "Feral" and "Craftsmen"... The Space Wolves do things vastly differently from, well, everyone, including other less-civilised chapters; and while the Salamanders and Iron Hands both revere technology and craftsmanship, they have almost exactly opposite outlooks in other areas... Salamanders are the closest thing in 40k to genuine Good Guys, while Iron Hands are creepy, think anyone who isn't more machine than man is weak and contemptible, and are pretty much on the same path the Necrontyr followed to its horrifying conclusion.

In the original announcement link if you zoom in on the blurry image of the book interior you can barely make out the words "Space Wolves" and "Black Templars" in the paragraph in the bottom left of the image, under the heading "Getting Started."

Not that this means anything. Without context they could be talking about anything there.

Apparently I have too much time on my hands.

I wouldn't expect Grey Knights as they are specifically daemon hunters

The use of specific chapters will probably lead to chapter specific traits much like 40K chapter traits but distilled to an individual

I would not expect Grey Knights for a few reasons. First, they are Ordo Malleus, and the book is about the Deathwatch, who do not recruit from them.

Second, the Grey Knights are different to 'ordinary' Space Marines. Their equipment, training, mental toughness and psychic ability are better. Roughly, I think Grey Knights are to Space Marines as Stormtrooper Regiments are to Guard Regiments.

This opens up the possibility they may come out in a supplement, but supplements tend to keep the theme of the core game.

Lyinar said:

Sadly, according to a playtester on Bell of Lost Souls, they are specific chapters, two of which are Blood Angels and Space Wolves.

I would presume that since the "fluff" of the Deathwatch are that members are chosen from all different chapters that players will have the choice oh many different chapters which will probably dictate players core advantages and disadvantages and then be given the choice of what type of space marine they are, e.g. Techmarine, Assault Marine, Librarian, Captain, etc.

I could be wrong but that is what way I am thinking they will do it.

One thing to consider about this RPG is that although people will be playing Space Marines the enemies that you will be facing will probably be a lot tougher than you. It would be the only way to maintain balance in a game where every player is a 7 foot tall armour clad super soldier.

AArchetype: Tactical Nuke -> Flesh Tearer.

Wulfen said:

There are various ways of being "tougher" and not all them physical. Weird physiology ( immune to certain types of damage ), highly intelligent/psychic manipulators that work through proxies and possessors are all challenges that can´t be resolved just by bolters. The trick is to generate situations where the Astartes must work outside their normal comfort zone ( direct application of force ) and use their brains. Remember, the Deathwatch are supposed to be the specialists on unconventional anti-Xenos warfare.

I'd like to see Dark Angels included in the mix. While they generally keep to themselves and hunt for the "heretics" of their order, you'd figure they'd want to have a few of their members with the Deathwatch so they can execute traitor Dark Angels before they are interrogated by the inquisition. Wouldn't want their deep, dark secret getting out, would they?

I would also think that you'd have template marine chapters as well. While I don't think they'd fill in the game in the same manner as DH careers, they would have a certain bent to their characters to give them an edge based on their chapter.

Tech Priest : I agree that Iron Hands makes sense from having the techno edge to their chapter.

Guardsman: Ultramarines make sense to represent the codex chapters and be the baseline fighter.

Coolness factor: Blood Angels love to represent in Deathwatch so I'd expect to see them and I'd love to see the "Black Rage" in action.

Cleric : Black Templars are the most prolific of the Marine chapters. All told they have between 6500 and 10,000 marines still in their legion and they are spread out all over the galaxy. I'd expect to see them in the Deathwatch for sure if I were a betting man.... and I'm not. (Clerical)

Psyker: Blood Ravens will probably be included because of their popularity through the video games (Psyker)

Feral Worlder: Space Wolves are awesome and FFG would be ridiculous not to include them

The following canon Chapters are relatively close to the regions of space thus far identified within both DH and RT; generally operating in or around the Segmentum Obscurus. Source; Codex: Space Marines 5th Edition, pg. 30-31.

• Blood Swords
• Dark Angels
• Dark Sons
• Exorcists
• Fire Hawks (chapter destroyed)
• Iron Knights
• Legion of Night
• Night Watch
• Storm Hawks

Ultimately, there are a lot of possibilities if a GM wants to put a little effort into options for their players.

-=Brother Praetus=-

I wouldn´t expect to see the Blood Ravens in due to licensing reasons; I would however love to see them in, as they have a really interesting backstory. In general, however, I don´t think there´s a huge problem with the fact that only 6 chapters are in. After all, many chapters can be made by using the ones we´re gonna be given as a basis. Keep in mind that a good 50% of the chapters are successors of the Ultramarines. The Imperial Fists are easy to do based on Black Templars (remove some zeal, add psykers, and make them less assaulty). And so on.

LeBlanc13: IIRC, according to their codex, the Black Templars only have a "mere" 5,500 Marines. The Space Wolves are the next-largest Chapter at 3,500, also from the BT Codex, and also IIRC.

I'd love to see the First-Founding chapters that get less exposure than the Wolves, Smurfs, and both flavours of Angel. Salamanders, White Scars, Iron Hands, Raven Guard, Imperial Fists... They all have compelling stories waiting to be told (and in the case of the Raven Guard, horribly sledgehammerish Edgar Allen Poe references to rise above).

The Blood Ravens would be a good late-founding chapter to flesh out a bit more, and their oddly high number of Librarians would give that background a pretty good class focus. They really need to leave that history-block firmly in place, though. The wild speculation about them is too fun for someone to put the boot down on.

I believe, or at least I hope, it's likely that FFG will six chapters that give the broadest array of character types. If they do then six chapters might as well be a thousand. That is unless they get too specific with each description. Then we may end up having five chapters and a bunch of codex boyscouts to choose from (seeing as Ultramarines are pretty much certain to be in the book and so bland that they can stand in for many other chapters).

That said, I highly doubt that it will be difficult to adapt pretty much any chapter to the game. For the most part, aside from actual geneseed mutation, there really shouldn't be all that much in the way of game mechanics to seperate one marine from another. There are some exceptions of course, but chapter choice really should be much more oriented towards roleplaying than actual game mechanics.

By the way. Not all chapters traditionally second battle-brothers to Deathwatch. In fact, I would imagine a significant portion don't. Space Marine chapters are, for the most part, autonomous, and many have an active dislike for the Inquisition. In particular, the Black Templars' hatred for psykers would seem in conflict with the fact that a very large percentage of Inquisitors, if not virtually all, are either psykers themselves or heavily employ pysker agents. Likewise, Dark Angels and Iron Hands are highly insular and distrustful as chapters, and generally are not known to work with others if they can avoid it. That isn't to say that they have never or will never second people to Deathwatch so much as to say that they shouldn't be among the six core chapters presented in a game called "Deathwatch". Chapters such as the Ultramarines, Crimson Fists, and Space Wolves fit that bill far, far better.

As much as I love the Crimson Fists, they can't really afford to spare any Marines, can they? Aren't they down to less than 500 able-bodied Marines after what happened on Rynn's World?

If they can, they'd make great Ork Hunters.

SonofDorn said:

There's quite a bit of fluff that suggests that they work pretty closely with the Inquisition. Pre-Rynn's World I'm almost certain they probably did second men to Deathwatch on a regular basis. Afterwards might be a different matter, but a handful of marines (I doubt many chapters second more than half a dozen at a time) isn't going to make much of a difference even if they only have around 500. Though now that I think about it if the timeline is the same as Dark Heresy, it does seem less likely seeing as they would likely only number 300-400 at that time. Remember that they were actually reduced to roughly one hundred after Rynn's World.

So ultimately you probably have a point.

Atheosis said:

To be honest, the Space Wolves dislike and distrust the inquisition for their own reasons; namely, the Canis Helix and how easy its effects can be perceived as a sign wanton genetic deviance and possible Chaos corruption. There have been those who attempted or recommended censure of the chapter for this reason (both presented in their old codex and the novels). Never mind that Russ himself showed signs of the wulfen. That being said, the Space Wolves are all about duty, honor, and glory. It is their duty to second battle brothers to the Deathwatch when requested and available. It is an honor to serve one of the chamber militant of the Holy Inquisition. It is a call to greater glory in service to their Emperor, their Primarch and their Chapter. That, and an opportunity to both build respect with ones peers and learn new tricks. Logan Grimnar is a cunning old wolf, after all.

-=Brother Praetus=-

Atheosis said:

Last I heard, the Crimson Fists and Scythes both are no longer seconding actual Battle-Brothers...but are contributing well-trained Scout squads to the Deathwatch prior to their ascension to full Battle-Brother status.