So, I've been playing Daqan for a while, looking for a list that really caught me. Played Spearstar for a while, played Calv for a while, tried MSU, nothing really felt like it was the list for me. Then Crossbowmen came out and I started playing around with them, and I struck upon the following list that I really liked:

Lord Hawthorne (34)
-Unique: Sweeping Strikes (5)
--Total Unit Cost: 39

Spearmen x6 (40)
-Champion: Lance Corporal (6)
--Total Unit Cost: 46

Spearmen x6 (40)
-Champion: Lance Corporal (6)
--Total Unit Cost: 46

Heavy Crossbowmen x3 (27)
-Equipment: Tempered Steel (3)
-Training: Rank Discipline (4)
--Total Unit Cost: 34

Heavy Crossbowmen x3 (27)
-Equipment: Tempered Steel (3)
-Training: Rank Discipline (4)
--Total Unit Cost: 34

I found this to have a very flexible playstyle that I really like. The Spearmen with Lance Corporal can do many things, ranging from long-range charges, enhanced early melee attacks, or melee with a defense modifier. The Crossbowmen are suprisingly lethal, being able to toss a ton of damage out reliably. And Hawthorne with Sweeping Strikes is able to both provide support through inspiration, as well as go into melee without fearing return strikes.

I was wondering, though, if the forum hivemind has any improvements that I may not have considered.

Interesting. I might want to build something similar with waiqar with archers and reanimates i realy like the concept of 2 melee infantry squads supported with 2 ranged squads. In waiqar i could try to.use 2 units of reanimates in 3 by 2 formation with frontline carrion lancer and 2 units of archers

Did you find yourself using Sweeping Strikes? I've never attempted it before.

13 hours ago, Glucose98 said:

Did you find yourself using Sweeping Strikes? I've never attempted it before.

Oh, I used it all the time. It's really good. It lets me stick Hawthorne into places my opponent can't get easily, where he can swing freely without fear of retribution.

It's also fun to make a charge, square up into range of another target, and go to town.

It really makes him a huge hassle for my opponent, and can save his skin from time to time. I've had his death rate go to nearly 0% since switching away from Shield+Might.

Have you had trouble with your opponent engaging the Crossbowmen? Are you using Hawthorne to hand out inspiration tokens in the early game?

I wonder - is Hawthorne+Sweeping Strikes a good use of 39 points? WR Brutal 1 no reroll is not great damage: average 1.42 hits per attack, so call it 3 damage. He does get the opportunity to make more attacks than your average melee hero, but even still, he's not going to be doing a ton of damage. He's pretty quick and maneuverable so he's a good blocker, but outside the thorns build he's only medium durable. Lastly, his special action is fantastic, but largely takes his whole turn.

For the same 39 points, options include:

• 2x1 Spearmen with Rallying Cornicen and a Rune Golem. The Cornicen is overall probably not as good as an inspiration token, but being on the modifier dial is a big plus, and it has nice flexibility of initiatives. Can be sniped out is maybe the big disadvantage, so the unit has to hide. In a pinch it's a decent blocker, 8 Def2 models is pretty tough. The Golem is a somewhat maligned model, but it's the cheapest way to get a unit on the table and against the right target can be a good blocker.
• 2x2 Spearmen with Rallying Cornicen and 5 free points. This has a rank to protect the horn and the bodies to stand up to serious punishment.
• 2x1 Spearmen with Rallying Cornicen and 2x1 Spearmen with nothing, almost.

So having compared it, I guess Hawthorne is a pretty decent buy. Still don't much like Sweeping Strikes though.

Does the list lack for a reliable way to do mortal wounds? I know that crossbowmen have piercing strike, but it looks tricky to pull off and I haven't faced crossbowmen enough to know whether or not it's reliable enough.

Other than that, I love the idea of this list. It looks like it's flexible, can do a big range of things, but is still simple. I'm sure it looks like a good, "classic" rank and file army on the table top too. Send pictures!

8 hours ago, Bhelliom said:

Have you had trouble with your opponent engaging the Crossbowmen? Are you using Hawthorne to hand out inspiration tokens in the early game?

I wonder - is Hawthorne+Sweeping Strikes a good use of 39 points? WR Brutal 1 no reroll is not great damage: average 1.42 hits per attack, so call it 3 damage. He does get the opportunity to make more attacks than your average melee hero, but even still, he's not going to be doing a ton of damage. He's pretty quick and maneuverable so he's a good blocker, but outside the thorns build he's only medium durable. Lastly, his special action is fantastic, but largely takes his whole turn.

For the same 39 points, options include:

• 2x1 Spearmen with Rallying Cornicen and a Rune Golem. The Cornicen is overall probably not as good as an inspiration token, but being on the modifier dial is a big plus, and it has nice flexibility of initiatives. Can be sniped out is maybe the big disadvantage, so the unit has to hide. In a pinch it's a decent blocker, 8 Def2 models is pretty tough. The Golem is a somewhat maligned model, but it's the cheapest way to get a unit on the table and against the right target can be a good blocker.
• 2x2 Spearmen with Rallying Cornicen and 5 free points. This has a rank to protect the horn and the bodies to stand up to serious punishment.
• 2x1 Spearmen with Rallying Cornicen and 2x1 Spearmen with nothing, almost.

So having compared it, I guess Hawthorne is a pretty decent buy. Still don't much like Sweeping Strikes though.

I've found the Spearmen can usually block pretty well for the Crossbowmen, at least long enough to take a decisive advantage. And Hawthorne will usually spend a round or two Skill-Rallying, then roll out.

I've found Hawthorne to be extremely effective. I curse and complain whenever he rolls an attack, but I've gotten pretty good at placing him where he's just swinging freely without any form of retribution. Plus, Steel Rain falling all around him. So an attack may not do much, but it's usually free. And very distracting. Honestly, the decisions it forces on my opponent is usually more beneficial than the attack itself.

Also, Hawthorne is good because he sits on a single tray, allowing Spearmen and brossbow bolts to go right past him with little effort. That has a definite value in and of itself.

7 hours ago, Elliphino said:

Does the list lack for a reliable way to do mortal wounds? I know that crossbowmen have piercing strike, but it looks tricky to pull off and I haven't faced crossbowmen enough to know whether or not it's reliable enough.

Other than that, I love the idea of this list. It looks like it's flexible, can do a big range of things, but is still simple. I'm sure it looks like a good, "classic" rank and file army on the table top too. Send pictures!

Bah, who needs mortal wound when you can do raw damage? The crossbowmen are much scarier than I initially thought, tossing 9 damage pretty regularly. Plus, very few things have a defense over 3, which makes both infantry units good at hitting multiples of both 2 and 3. I so rarely use their surge, and when I do it's usually just icing on the cake. I can't think of the last time it felt particularly influential.

21 hours ago, playnwin said:

Honestly, the decisions it forces on my opponent is usually more beneficial than the attack itself.

Can confirm.

Hawthorne's damage doesn't seem very dangerous when considered in a vacuum, but it's almost ALWAYS an attack on top of a swing from at least one unit of spearmen or a volley from crossbowmen. The two combined are, if not staggering, certainly enough to force me to reconsider my dials to take it into account, and I usually don't even get the morale test benefit against Hawthorne since he will avoid engaging.

Range 1 is surprisingly far.

21 hours ago, playnwin said:

The crossbowmen are much scarier than I initially thought, tossing 9 damage pretty regularly.

Alarmingly regularly.

I didn't give the crossbowmen much credit until they started brutalizing my frontliners with their stinkin' threat 3.

On 12/12/2017 at 2:34 AM, playnwin said:

It's also fun to make a charge, square up into range of another target, and go to town.

Curious as to how the rules work regarding this? I get being able to attack or charge/attack anyone within the range 1 bubble, but do you square up by just staying in position and rotating so your edge is parallel, or are you also shifting to align yourself with a tray.

IE: you charge to within range one of an enemy unit, say perfectly on the corner, no collision. Do you get to decide you are touching the corner, square up off the flank, while still maintaining a range 1 gap? And also pulling you into range of another enemy unit for your second attack if that unit was say range 2.5 off the first enemy’s same flank?

That seems incredibly maneuverable, and definitely would make Sweeping Strikes a lot more flexible. I guess I had just assumed that you didn’t resolve any squaring up, and just remained where you stopped movement if no collision occurred.

4 minutes ago, jcshep19 said:

Curious as to how the rules work regarding this? I get being able to attack or charge/attack anyone within the range 1 bubble, but do you square up by just staying in position and rotating so your edge is parallel, or are you also shifting to align yourself with a tray.

IE: you charge to within range one of an enemy unit, say perfectly on the corner, no collision. Do you get to decide you are touching the corner, square up off the flank, while still maintaining a range 1 gap? And also pulling you into range of another enemy unit for your second attack if that unit was say range 2.5 off the first enemy’s same flank?

That seems incredibly maneuverable, and definitely would make Sweeping Strikes a lot more flexible. I guess I had just assumed that you didn’t resolve any squaring up, and just remained where you stopped movement if no collision occurred.

He is talking about charging one unit, colliding, squaring up, then aligning in a direction that brings a second unit into range 1, not squaring up without collision.

At that point, the attack you get for successfully charging will trigger another attack against the second, unengaged unit.

Ok yeah that’s how I thought it worked, just making sure there wasn’t a more liberal interpretation of “touching” regarding sweeping strikes that I wasn’t aware of.

11 minutes ago, jcshep19 said:

Ok yeah that’s how I thought it worked, just making sure there wasn’t a more liberal interpretation of “touching” regarding sweeping strikes that I wasn’t aware of.

He does "count as" touching WHEN performing a melee attack, but it all pans out rules wise.

He would only close in if he were touching at the end of a march/shift or if he began his activation touching.

Because of this, he also can't just charge into empty space and attack, because the charge only grants an attack if he collides, and he only counts as touching when he is attacking.