So reading about Stunned on pg21 of the app rulebook. Confused.

Let's say a Stunned enemy activates. the first available action is an attack action that has "move" listed in it; I assume we resolve that action as 0 move and the enemy cannot resolve the attack due to being stunned? Or do we skip this since it cannot resolve?

The RAW say to discard Stunned after a move action is resolved. Does that mean it takes an action to discard the condition (as listed on the condition card)? Or does the app mean discard the card and then do another action?

Ditto this question. I'd add that RAW seem to say that a stunned imperial figure loses all movement points (MPs) from a move "instruction," discarding the stunned condition after this loss of MPs. Is an "instruction" just one part of a move (instruction 1) > attack (instruction 2) action? If so, does that mean that the figure still gets to perform that attack, and then get a whole second action afterward?

I ruled this way in my most recent mission, but dang did it feel brutal to give a figure a full second action after that one...

If I have understood correctly, the "Move & Attack" would become "Attack" with the Stunned condition discarded. Otherwise the Stunned condition would be too punishing for the imperials.

So in other words, unless the Imp has multiple Attack options listed, he'll lose his only attack action and play the rest of his turn out using a repositioning action? I guess that's makes sense

1 hour ago, The Mick said:

So in other words, unless the Imp has multiple Attack options listed, he'll lose his only attack action and play the rest of his turn out using a repositioning action? I guess that's makes sense

Not exactly

It says in the rules you cannot perform an attack while stunned, note that is performing an attack not taking an attack action. If you have an attack action that lets you move and then attack you forfeit the move to remove the stun. Then you may perform the attack, but this attack may be ignored because you can't move to gain the line of sight. Since you used the action that lets you attack you wont be able to attack with a different attack action. You would only be able to reposition/move. If the figure started out with line of sight they would get to shoot from their current spot and then reposition.

Technically, if you didn't actually perform an attack during an action, it wasn't an action containing an attack. For the purposes of App play though, you may ignore the distinction and just go by the attack action icons.

On 2/12/2017 at 10:25 AM, a1bert said:

If I have understood correctly, the "Move & Attack" would become "Attack" with the Stunned condition discarded. Otherwise the Stunned condition would be too punishing for the imperials.

if the action is only "attack" without move?

7 hours ago, Eyfrosyne said:

if the action is only "attack" without move?

They still can't attack while stunned, so skip that action and move on down the list

On 2.12.2017 at 6:41 PM, Vazzucious said:

If you have an attack action that lets you move and then attack you forfeit the move to remove the stun. Then you may perform the attack, but this attack may be ignored because you can't move to gain the line of sight.

Which rule led to the conclusion about ignoring the attack? On p.16 it says "If it cannot move to attack any target, it skips this instruction." So I would skip the whole action if the stunned figure has no valid target.

On 12/3/2017 at 0:59 PM, ManateeX said:

They still can't attack while stunned, so skip that action and move on down the list

Actually, I believe the rules only say that a stunned figure can’t attack outside of its activation. During its activation the attack would be a valid action.

45 minutes ago, Uninvited Guest said:

Actually, I believe the rules only say that a stunned figure can’t attack outside of its activation. During its activation the attack would be a valid action.

You are correct, I missed that! Thanks! This will make some of the imperial activations, notably the e-web's, a lot less confusing.

So the question still remains.

1. Does a *> (Move to Attack Action) get entirely skipped due to a Stun Condition because it is an Attack Action? The Stunned condition states, "You cannot attack or voluntarily exit your space."

or

2. Do you execute the *> (Move to Attack Action) but simply count the movement points as 0, discard the condition, and still attempt to perform the Attack section of the instruction? LotA rules state, "When an Imperial figure with the Stunned condition would gain movement points from a Move instruction, it gains no movement points instead. After an Imperial figure with the Stunned condition resolves a Move instruction, it discards the Stunned condition."

I would opt for #1. The *> symbol is an Attack Action and the Stunned condition seems to imply that you are not to attempt Attack Actions while having this condition. This would limit the Imperial figure to perform only its Move to reposition instructions, one of which would reduced to 0 movement points.

2 hours ago, dwaynedauzat said:

So the question still remains.

1. Does a *> (Move to Attack Action) get entirely skipped due to a Stun Condition because it is an Attack Action? The Stunned condition states, "You cannot attack or voluntarily exit your space."

or

2. Do you execute the *> (Move to Attack Action) but simply count the movement points as 0, discard the condition, and still attempt to perform the Attack section of the instruction? LotA rules state, "When an Imperial figure with the Stunned condition would gain movement points from a Move instruction, it gains no movement points instead. After an Imperial figure with the Stunned condition resolves a Move instruction, it discards the Stunned condition."

I would opt for #1. The *> symbol is an Attack Action and the Stunned condition seems to imply that you are not to attempt Attack Actions while having this condition. This would limit the Imperial figure to perform only its Move to reposition instructions, one of which would reduced to 0 movement points.

You are correct. It's #1 RAW. See this thread for details.

TL;DR: The entire LINE following the *> symbol (Move to Attack) is the Instruction, not just parts of the line (this is an important distinction). Page 14 of the rules is pretty clear about this, it refers to the lines as Instructions, not the individual pieces of each line.

"An instruction costs one action for each --> (action) or *--> (attack action) icon preceding it. If the figure does not have enough actions remaining for an instruction, that instruction is skipped."

The stunned condition definition is also very clear that you skip resolve Move "Instructions", which was defined on page 14 as the entire line. ANY instruction that says "Move" or "Move and..." is a move instruction. You skip resolve that entire Instruction, you do not pick it apart. Any attempt to tease a "move and attack" Instruction apart doesn't make sense. In fact, this 1 instruction qualifies as a move instruction as well as an attack instruction.

"When an Imperial figure with the Stunned condition would gain movement points from a Move instruction, it gains no movement points instead. After an Imperial figure with the Stunned condition resolves a Move instruction , it discards the Stunned condition."

The "instruction" isn't resolved until you perform both the move AND attack part of the attack Instruction, and the stunned condition is still there mid-instruction when the attack portion would activate (because the condition doesn't go away until a move instruction is resolved). Therefore the figure cannot benefit from the "attack" portion of the Instruction while Stunned.

18 minutes ago, cdj0902 said:

You are correct. It's #1 RAW. See this thread for details.

TL;DR: The entire LINE following the *> symbol (Move to Attack) is the Instruction, not just parts of the line. Page 14 of the rules is pretty clear about this, it refers to the lines as Instructions, not the individual "actions" on each line.

"An instruction costs one action for each --> (action) or *--> (attack action) icon preceding it. If the figure does not have enough actions remaining for an instruction, that instruction is skipped."

The stunned condition definition is also very clear that you skip Move "Instructions". ANY instruction that says "Move" or "Move and..." is a move instruction. You skip that entire Instruction, you do not pick it apart.

I agree, except for your last line.

I'm not seeing where the Stunned Condition states that you "skip Move Instructions." It just states, "You cannot attack or voluntarily exit your space." If it required that we "skip" move instructions then we could never fulfill the rule that states, "When an Imperial figure with the Stunned condition would gain movement points from a Move instruction, it gains no movement points instead."

So the Stunned Condition simply prohibits taking Attack Actions and then limits the first Move action taken to 0 Movement Points.

----------------------------------

Example Storm Trooper Activation:

*--> Move 3 to attack << the closest Rebel >>.

--> Move 2 to reposition 4.

--> Move 6 to reposition 4.

----------------------------------

Stun would cause you to skip the *--> (Attack Action) instruction then execute the first --> Move instruction with 0 Movement Points and finally execute the second --> Move instruction as written with 6 Movement Points.

9 minutes ago, dwaynedauzat said:

I agree, except for your last line.

I'm not seeing where the Stunned Condition states that you "skip Move Instructions." It just states, "You cannot attack or voluntarily exit your space." If it required that we "skip" move instructions then we could never fulfill the rule that states, "When an Imperial figure with the Stunned condition would gain movement points from a Move instruction, it gains no movement points instead."

So the Stunned Condition simply prohibits taking Attack Actions and then limits the first Move action taken to 0 Movement Points.

----------------------------------

Example Storm Trooper Activation:

*--> Move 3 to attack << the closest Rebel >>.

--> Move 2 to reposition 4.

--> Move 6 to reposition 4.

----------------------------------

Stun would cause you to skip the *--> (Attack Action) instruction then execute the first --> Move instruction with 0 Movement Points and finally execute the second --> Move instruction as written with 6 Movement Points.

The Stunned condition rule on page 21 says this:

"After an Imperial figure with the Stunned condition resolves a Move instruction, it discards the Stunned condition." It doesn't say skip. I should have worded that better.

Your example "*--> Move 3 to attack << the closest Rebel >>" is a move instruction. It says it right in the Instruction. It has more going on than a move instruction that ONLY instructs the figure to move, but it's still a move instruction. And since Stunned condition doesn't fall off the figure until a move instruction is resolved, it doesn't benefit from the attack that's included in the instruction. It's still stunned until the entire instruction is resolved, per RAW.

5 minutes ago, cdj0902 said:

The Stunned condition rule on page 21 says it:

"After an Imperial figure with the Stunned condition resolves a Move instruction, it discards the Stunned condition."

Your example "*--> Move 3 to attack << the closest Rebel >>" is a move instruction. It says it right in the Instruction. It has more going on than a move instruction that ONLY instructs the figure to move, but it's still a move instruction. And since Stunned condition doesn't fall off the figure until a move instruction is resolved, it doesn't benefit from the attack that's included in the instruction. It's still stunned until the entire instruction is resolved, per RAW.

*--> is an Attack Action

I would say that Stun prohibits Attack Actions and therefore the *--> (Attack Action) instruction is skipped entirely before it is even read. Stun would get discarded after the "--> Move 2 to reposition 4" instruction is executed using 0 Movement Points instead of 2. Then you still have one more action to execute the last "--> Move 6 to reposition 4" instruction.

Just now, dwaynedauzat said:

I would say that Stun prohibits Attack Actions and therefore the *--> (Attack Action) instruction is skipped before it is even read. Stun would get discarded after the "--> Move 2 to reposition 4" instruction is executed using 0 Movement Points instead of 2. Then you still have one more action to execute the last "--> Move 6 to reposition 4" instruction.

The Stunned rule says nothing about skipping Attack actions, or any other actions for that matter. No instructions are skipped. I wish I'd have worded my initial response more clearly and avoided using "skip" entirely, because you are correct: it says NOTHING about skipping anything. You resolve the move Instruction (whether it's activated by a normal or attack action), which results in 0 movement points and ignoring the attack portion (because the figure is still stunned until the entire instruction is resolved), then you discard stunned.

Just now, cdj0902 said:

The Stunned rule says nothing about skipping Attack actions, or any other actions for that matter. No instructions are skipped. I wish I'd have worded my initial response more clearly and avoided using "skip" entirely, because you are correct: it says NOTHING about skipping anything. You resolve the move Instruction (whether it's activated by a normal or attack action), which results in 0 movement points and ignoring the attack portion (because the figure is still stunned until the entire instruction is resolved), then you discard stunned.

Point taken. So in my Example Stormtrooper Activation the first *--> (Attack Action) instruction gets executed with 0 Movement Points and ignores the attack, then discards the Stunned Condition for completing that Move Instruction, and finally, with one activation remaining, it executes the --> Move 2 to reposition 4 instruction.

1 minute ago, dwaynedauzat said:

Point taken. So in my Example Stormtrooper Activation the first *--> (Attack Action) instruction gets executed with 0 Movement Points and ignores the attack, then discards the Stunned Condition for completing that Move Instruction, and finally, with one activation remaining, it executes the --> Move 2 to reposition 4 instruction.

Bingo.

I altered my initial post to strike out the use of "skip". It was confusing the matter. Thanks for catching that.

10 minutes ago, cdj0902 said:

The Stunned rule says nothing about skipping Attack actions, or any other actions for that matter. No instructions are skipped. I wish I'd have worded my initial response more clearly and avoided using "skip" entirely, because you are correct: it says NOTHING about skipping anything. You resolve the move Instruction (whether it's activated by a normal or attack action), which results in 0 movement points and ignoring the attack portion (because the figure is still stunned until the entire instruction is resolved), then you discard stunned.

Based on how you quoted the rule in the other thread you seem to be separating "Stunned Imperial figures cannot not attack" from the rest of the sentence it is contained within. It very specifically states that they cannot attack outside of their activation , there is no punctuation to indicate that this should be treated separately from the rest of the sentence.

Stunned does not prevent the attack portion of "Move and Attack" from occurring during the figure's activation. The only thing the rules states is that the figure gains 0 movement points when it is instructed to move.

For a comparison, consider how an Imperial player would play. If they option were available, they would remove the Stunned condition and attack.

What happens if there are no Rebel figures within range or in line of sight? Does the entire *--> (Attack Action) Instruction get skipped without executing the 0 point Move action form THAT instruction?

I'd still like to see an official rules clarification on this.

1 minute ago, Uninvited Guest said:

Stunned does not prevent the attack portion of "Move and Attack" from occurring during the figure's activation. The only thing the rules state is that they figure gains 0 movement points when it is instructed to move.

It does prevent the attack portion of "Move and Attack", because the Move instruction isn't over yet and Stunned deals explicitly with instructions, not "move portions of instructions". The instruction is the entire line. Stunned, per it's wording, doesn't get discarded until a move instruction is resolved.

3 minutes ago, Uninvited Guest said:

Based on how you quoted the rule in the other thread you seem to be separating "Stunned Imperial figures cannot not attack" from the rest of the sentence it is contained within. It very specifically states that they cannot attack outside of their activation , there is no punctuation to indicate that this should be treated separately from the rest of the sentence.

Stunned does not prevent the attack portion of "Move and Attack" from occurring during the figure's activation. The only thing the rules states is that the figure gains 0 movement points when it is instructed to move.

For a comparison, consider how an Imperial player would play. If they option were available, they would remove the Stunned condition and attack.

The Stunned Condition Card states, "You cannot attack or voluntarily exit your space." The LotA rulebook adds the part you quoted, "Stunned Imperial figures cannot attack or voluntarily exit their space outside of their own activation." These are two separate rules.

4 minutes ago, dwaynedauzat said:

The Stunned Condition Card states, "You cannot attack or voluntarily exit your space." The LotA rulebook adds the part you quoted, "Stunned Imperial figures cannot attack or voluntarily exit their space outside of their own activation." These are two separate rules.

Look at the heading of the rules section we're discussing on Page 21, "Appendix 1: Rule Changes for Legends of the Alliance. " The first paragraph in that section says "Some rules used in the competitive modes of Imperial Assault operate differently when playing Legends of the Alliance. This section describes these changes." This is on Page 21, directly above the rules for Stunned and Bleeding.

This is not a supplement, but is overriding the original rules.

10 minutes ago, cdj0902 said:

It does prevent the attack portion of "Move and Attack", because the Move instruction isn't over yet and Stunned deals explicitly with instructions, not "move portions of instructions". The instruction is the entire line. Stunned, per it's wording, doesn't get discarded until a move instruction is resolved.

As I stated above, Stunned does not prevent a figure from attacking within it's activation because the LotA rules on Stunned Imperial figures are entirely new rules overriding the original.

10 minutes ago, Uninvited Guest said:

Look at the heading of the rules section we're discussing on Page 21, "Appendix 1: Rule Changes for Legends of the Alliance. " The first paragraph in that section says "Some rules used in the competitive modes of Imperial Assault operate differently when playing Legends of the Alliance. This section describes these changes." This is on Page 21, directly above the rules for Stunned and Bleeding.

This is not a supplement, but is overriding the original rules.

As I stated above, Stunned does not prevent a figure from attacking within it's activation because the LotA rules on Stunned Imperial figures are entirely new rules overriding the original.

Interesting. So if Stunned is changed to ONLY affect Imperial figures while "outside of their own activation," a stunned Nexu could still Pounce 6 spaces and Attack a Hero then Move 0 points to reposition? I have a feeling that this is not what was intended. I'd still like to see an official rules clarification on this.