Something is bothering me with this action. I like the concept of being able to recover a bit of fatigue and strife in action, but I feel this action need limitations.

Whats stops my players to say ''I'm gonna use calming breath for 10 minutes'' durring any non-conflict scene, to remove all their strife and fatigue?

I just cannot tell them ''this action only works in conflict'', that doesn't make sense ! if you can ''calm breath'' in combat, you can do it any other time.

I'm personally thinking about making any damage that didn't pierce your Resilence go away at end of the combat, and make all damage that is still there when conflict ends become "sticky" - can't remove it without medical intervention.

Basically: at end of the conflict scene, remove Resilience in Fatigue. Any leftover Fatigue becomes Damage, and cannot be removed without healing.

that's a good idea, i'll try it.

and what about strife? how do you manage it with this capacity?

Didn't run into a situation where someone would want to spam it to remove Strife. Note that we have an Ikoma Bard and a Sparrow "shiba guardian" in the group, so Strife Management is...easy.

Technically, it's written as a conflict action, not a narrative one.

Outside of conflict, I'd allow one use per scene .

I might allow rolling Meditation + Void to recover 1+bonus successes Strife or Fatigue.

I do carry those forward except for in extended downtime. RAW, as up Update 2, Fatigue heals 2 × Water per night, plus a first aid roll and a treatment roll daily. Strife, Water per scene; I'd allow at least 2 strife per night in downtime, unless the player wants to stay angry...

We kinda ran into this one in the last session, but it could be a cheap cop-out if two players just get into a friendly duel, take only Calming Breaths, then bow out once they are at 0 Fatigue and 0 Strife.

"Your breathing technique is clearly superior to mine. Victory is yours, Kakita-san."

8 hours ago, AtoMaki said:

We kinda ran into this one in the last session, but it could be a cheap cop-out if two players just get into a friendly duel, take only Calming Breaths, then bow out once they are at 0 Fatigue and 0 Strife.

yeah ! that's exactly my point ! plus we just canot say ''this action can only be used in conflict'', it's totally irrealistic ! if you can do it in conflict you should be able to do it anytime. after all it's just taking a calm breath !

let's not forget it's a roleplaying game, not a board game : rules should never get in the way of logic.

4 hours ago, Kyros Skyfall said:

yeah ! that's exactly my point ! plus we just canot say ''this action can only be used in conflict'', it's totally irrealistic ! if you can do it in conflict you should be able to do it anytime. after all it's just taking a calm breath !

let's not forget it's a roleplaying game, not a board game : rules should never get in the way of logic.

A calming breath is less useful when you aren't distracted... you have time to continue to stew on the annoyances in narrative time, so it's not as useful as the moment of clarity from a pause on the field.

The techniques I've used for non-combat don't work well on the field in SCA melees. Likewise, the ones I've adopted on the field don't work well off. I do suffer from bipolar, so I can't say my experiences are typical there, but I can say mine are that it really isn't unreasonable and definitely NOT illogical for the combat version not to work out of combat and vice versa. Adrenaline in mass quantities totally mucks with your psychology. (and SCA fighting - heavy or rapier - can get the adrenaline going quite well.)

I know a couple of guys who are mellow off the field, or in tourney, but in a melee, they can't think straight. And a few guys who are calm as a windless lake in melee, but walk away from tourney ready to mangle things.

I also know that, when my home was invaded, I dropped into a calm and firm resolve as I held the invader at bay with live steel until the police arrived...

yes, but it pushes players to use that ''cheat'' of starting friendly duels to purge all their strife and fatigue away. I think the main rules should have a firm limitation to the ''calm breath'' use, to avoid any discussion with the players and any cheats. I don't want my players to make a fight go longer just to use calm breath more and purge off their strife or fatigue.

On 11/13/2017 at 5:57 AM, Kyros Skyfall said:

yes, but it pushes players to use that ''cheat'' of starting friendly duels to purge all their strife and fatigue away. I think the main rules should have a firm limitation to the ''calm breath'' use, to avoid any discussion with the players and any cheats. I don't want my players to make a fight go longer just to use calm breath more and purge off their strife or fatigue.

The GM needs to be aware, and say, "No." This is a role-playing game, not a competitive game. You don't get to use exploits because they're "in the rules." The player suggests, it, the GM says "That's not how it works." End of story.

I do like WHW's idea, if you need something a bit more concrete.

21 hours ago, The Grand Falloon said:

The GM needs to be aware, and say, "No." This is a role-playing game, not a competitive game. You don't get to use exploits because they're "in the rules." The player suggests, it, the GM says "That's not how it works." End of story.

Well, it is a roleplaying game, so when the GM says ''no'' to an action, he has to explain why, in the universe's logic, the action cannot be made. you cannot say ''the rules don't allow it'' or ''it is not in the spirit of the rules'' because there is no ''rules system'' in the fictive universe characters are in : concretely, if the character cannot perform an action, it need a real reason.

just saying ''no'' without good reasons is just a failure from the GM or from the rules : a roleplaying game is ment to allow characters any action they would logically be able to accomplish in a given fictive universe. that's why this issue with the calming breath rule needs to be adressed : it is a beta, oure role is to spot the rules point that will eventually be problematic in one way or another.

(that's why I never play mouseguard or Torchbearer, because you got stupid rules like the need to collect (bull)''chips'' to be able to f-ing rest ! what a joke!)

On 13/11/2017 at 11:52 AM, AK_Aramis said:

The techniques I've used for non-combat don't work well on the field in SCA melees. Likewise, the ones I've adopted on the field don't work well off. I do suffer from bipolar, so I can't say my experiences are typical there, but I can say mine are that it really isn't unreasonable and definitely NOT illogical for the combat version not to work out of combat and vice versa. Adrenaline in mass quantities totally mucks with your psychology. (and SCA fighting - heavy or rapier - can get the adrenaline going quite well.)

I agree, but here it's irrelevant : adrenaline in combat and stress-gestion is covered by other parts of the rules (katas, composure,resilience and all the rest, like the fact that if you're accustomed to fight you won't keep much strife on your dices as you rool more of them).

my point is : thoses rules can lead to absurd situations any GM wants to avoid, thus they need rectifications, even small ones

I think Calming Breath only works in Intrigues, not combat, despite the awkward wording, since it is only supposed to appear on Page 159 which lists the actions for Intrigues. Has there been clarification since then? My group hasn't played again (we're waiting for a more substantial update before we commit the time).

That said, I can see where it's really clumsy. It was clearly designed to replace the Water Stance effect since it fits perfectly into the bonus action Water Stance now provides. Of course, that was only a problem because of how clunky Strife "works." Having it remove Fatigue (healing) was also a really bad choice and should be removed. Of course, changing Wounds to Fatigue was also a really bad choice.

It's kind of a breakdown in the whole system. None of it is "logical." Strife should just wipe clean after every scene, based on the rest of the mechanics. Having characters suddenly stop being able to do Strife Management actions when a scene ends doesn't make a lot of sense. Of course, that's because the Strife mechanic as written is really bad and needs to be reworked as a longer-term, persistent effect and not a math worksheet with dodgy rules about when you can do the problems on it.

3 hours ago, TheVeteranSergeant said:

I think Calming Breath only works in Intrigues, not combat, despite the awkward wording, since it is only supposed to appear on Page 159 which lists the actions for Intrigues. Has there been clarification since then? My group hasn't played again (we're waiting for a more substantial update before we commit the time).

The Update (since 1.0) places Calming breath three times: pp. 159, 162 and 165. It is explicitly stated to be available in Intrigues, Duels and Skirmishes.

Weird, my version of the v20 PDF doesn't have any alterations to the Calming Breath text box.

It is just copied 3 times in different places of the update PDF.

Oh, so it is. Good lord. I understand the Beta rulebook having layout problems, but they can't create a coherent 8-page rules update?

It’s a bit confusing but it is consistent with the rest of the updates: modified sections are included in full under the page numbers they should be found in. If a new paragraph is supposed to appear several times in the final book, it appears several times in the update, under each section.

Ok, so now Calming Breath cannot reduce Strife/ Fatigue to less than half one’s Composure/ endurance.

One possible logical next step would be to allow reducing both to that level during a downtime scene, before applying the “normal” recuperation rate based on Water from the following scene.

Victory! thank you FFG for considering us, nitpicking GM

I would rather make Strife/Fatigue heal at end of the scene until you hit half of your Endurance / Composure, and make recovering anything below that require in-scene effort. Seems like a good middle ground.

is it not the case here? you can use calming breath at the end of the scene, or anytime you wish, and it works only till you hit half your endurance/composure. it's how I'm gonna play it anyway.

30 minutes ago, Kyros Skyfall said:

is it not the case here? you can use calming breath at the end of the scene, or anytime you wish, and it works only till you hit half your endurance/composure. it's how I'm gonna play it anyway.

How the rules read is that once the start of scene set objectives are complete, scene over. No extra rounds. No discretion to use other actions.

yeah, but logic implies that you can ''breath calmly'' and thus lose fatigue / strife

the moment rules take over your sens of ''what's logically possible for a character to do'' is the moment you stop playing an RPG

19 hours ago, Kyros Skyfall said:

yeah, but logic implies that you can ''breath calmly'' and thus lose fatigue / strife

the moment rules take over your sens of ''what's logically possible for a character to do'' is the moment you stop playing an RPG

Wrong. The rules are there to provide the framework for the fantastic, and working within them is a creative exercise. The moment you stop using the rules is the moment it's no longer a game.