Howdy,

So I'm a WFRP3E novice, and I'm running my first game this week. As I read through the rules and do some test combat to learn the mechanics, I'm trying to figure out how to handle the various modifiers that might make an attack easier or more difficult. For most of them, I have a good grasp, but I'm seekign some GM wisdom with regard to outnumbering.

QUESTION 1

A Troll Slayer PC is fighting two marauders in an engagement, and no other allies are involved in the engagement. As such, the Troll Slayer is outnumbered 2:1. Would you:

A) Add a misfortune die to the Troll Slayer's attacks while he is outnumbered

B) Add a fortune die to the attacks of the two marauders, since they outnumber theTroll Slayer.

C) Both of the above

D) Something else (please specify)

QUESTION 2

Continuing from the above example, three more marauders join the engagement, and the Troll Slayer is now heavily outnumbered by a count of 5:1. Would you:

A) Increase the level of the outnumber bonus or penalty? (Assuming you are using one)

B) Not increase the effect of the outnumber bonus or penalty, figuring that it's punishment enough that the Troll Slayer is having to fend off five marauders an engagement?

B & B for me. The other penalty for being outnumbered is active defenses, and the inability for using enough to defend against all attacks. So, I'd just apply a single simple "outnumber" bonus to the attackers.

I don't use the outnumbering rules for the simple reason that it's already enough of a disadvantage being outnumbered, because you can only defend against up to three attacks each round (1d against each).

I don't use outnumbering either, but assisting is a side effect of outnumbering, so if your players (or your NPCs/monsters) are smart enough to help each other while outnumbering an opponent, they should get an extra fortune die.

justicewoot said:

Isn't remembering who assists who a hassle/boring/overly complicated ?

Theoretically, 5 marauders could use assist and give 4 fortune dice to one marauder and one extra marauder would get one fortune die and the three others would get none... Complicated isn't it ? And maybe a tad unbalancing ?

If you really want to simulate outnumbering with dice, make each character 'assisting' another in fighting a character spend a maneuver to do so. You'd only need to track who had spent their free maneuver when it came to their action, just remember 'he's free'ed already'. I'd assign one fortune die (or expertise as a player saw fit) for each doubling of the character being outnumbered and 'peel off' characters engaged with others. This adequately simulates the distractions the other characters provide the PC when 'defending' against their attacks (this is outside of using Active Defenses) So:

Troll Slayer (TS), Marauder (M), Other PC (PC)

TS vs. M = no change

TS vs. MM = one fortune/expertise die to one of the attackers, the other spends a maneuver

TS vs. MMM = as MM, but the other two spend a maneuver

TS vs. MMMM = two fortune/expertise dice to one of the attackers, the other three spend a maneuver

TS vs. MM vs. PC = as TS vs. M since one M would be 'peeled off' into its own quasi-engagement

TS vs. MMM vs. PC = as TS vs. MM since one M would be 'peeled off' into its own quasi-engagement

The only thing you'd need to track would be when you get into situations like TS vs. MMMM vs. PC, but then it would be a TS vs. MM and PC vs. MM. Tracking who'd spent their maneuver to assist would only require tossing a tracking counter next to their standee.

I don't understand why it would be hard to keep track of at all. Why doesn't each monster just assist one of his buddies who has not been assisted yet so they are all getting a bonus white die. A assists B, B assists C, C assists A. All three get a bonus die.

Yeah, I'm still trying to figure out assisting. It says you can "assist an engaged ally", but I'm not sure what that means. At a glance, it would apear to be any ally who is in an engagement somewhere. The action does not specify, for example, that the assisting character has to be in the same engagement as the target character he wants to help out. In fact, it does not say that the assisting character has ot be engaged at all. Perhaps an unengaged character could try to help an engaged ally by doing something that distract the enemies in that engagement, like shouting or throwing rocks at them.

To my mind, assisting and outnumbering are two completely different concepts.

What I think I'm going to do is to go with the spirit of the flanking rule from D&D and the outnumbering attack bonuses from WFRP2E. If an engaged character attacks an enemy, and his 'side' outnumbers the enemy 'side' by a margin of 3:1 or more, he will get a bonus of one fortune die on that attack.

Thus, three monsters that gang up on a single character would get this bonus. If six monsters ganged up on two characters, they would get the bonus.