What is your opinion of the matter? Should the Grimmlands be made up completely of the tales of Wilhelm and Jacob Grimm, or would you allow other "dark fairytales" in? Christian Anderson? Lewis Carrol? Slavic folklore?

What do you think?

I love Grimm, but I hate the origin story. Some things don't need to be explained in Grimm. Your here in a world of twisted fairy tales, and your trying to stay alive. I believe you should sic whatever horrors or wonders you want from cartoons, fairy tales, nursery rhymes, or children's books on your players. Cowboys, robots, trolls, goblins, fairies, witches, warlocks, indians, devils, gods, imps, ninjas, centuars, monsters, steam shovels, wizards, talking trees, foxes, dragons, ghouls, ogres, knights, demons, woodsmen, spirits, and anything else you want to put in your game all have a place in the Grimm lands.

I agree with Gothmog26 - anything goes in Grimm. The Queen of the Land of Tin and Spices is from "The Princess and the Pea" which is a Hans Christian Anderson tale, so the rulebook even mixes them. My players have already met a Care Bear, the Playing Card guards from Alice (and they've seen the Cheshire Cat's grin but that's all), Peter Peter, giant spiders that play music on their webs and even been atatcked by the Sun pouring mischevious Raisins on them!

gothmog26 said:

You risk getting a bit too light hearted if you introduce too many of these elements ... ninja's, for example. While I don't believe we should feel compelled to limit ourselves to the Grimm tales - and have used Alice, Pinnochio, Peter Pan, Oz, and other "modern faerie tale" influences myself - I do believe one should keep in mind the grim nature of the land and avoid turning it into a cartoon ... there is a system - called TOON - for that kind of gameplay.

I don't know, I think anything fantastical done right can work for Grimm. While I don't find cowboys, ninjas or robots the first thing I think of when I think "fairy tales" I do believe that if they are twisted in the right way they could fit right in with this setting. I picture Grimm as a place where anything ever imagined can happen somewhere in one of the lands. You just have to be careful how it is presented.

The Old West? Well sure. I can conceive of a VERY malicious Johnny Appleseed who grows a lot more than apple trees. And maybe Paul Bunyon and Babe wandered here and got - changed - by by the atmosphere. Maybe the giant from the beanstalk was a relative and revenge is on his mind?

Ninjas? Well, I don;t know Japanese fairy tales very well - something about talking fish (already in Grimm), dragons and demons in masks - but if my children did find themselves in a checkerboard land based on one of those fairy tales, ninjas would almost be required.

Robots? I am sure the Clockmaster has already made plans to build some.

It's hard enough to come up with ideas, doubly so if we limit ourselves to only literal fairy tales (is that a pun?). Just remember what type of story you are creating - a twisted one.

>> It's hard enough to come up with ideas, doubly so if we limit ourselves<<

That can be said of any setting, however ... yet you don't see unicorns and care bears running around 40k. You are always going to have a limited amount of published inspiration for your stories before you have to start making them up without the crutch of "what-has-come-before". But, like you say, anything CAN be done, if it is done well ... the obstacle is not allowing it to become ludicrous or turning your campaign into a parody of itself. Once you introduce ninja into a faerie tale setting I fear you risk your game jumping the shark - especially considering your protagonists are children and there were way too many "child ninja" or "child vs ninja vs spy" type films in the nineties for this idea not to start at a serious disadvantage.

I think, if one is looking for a faerie tale esque game involving ninjas, cowboys, etc. they might be better served by the Zantabulous Zorcerer of Zo

Forget Naruto , forget Ninja Gaiden , and most definitely forget Dr. Mcninja. Take away all the cuteness,sanitizing and commercialization that has been done to ninjas and go back to the core of what they are: hired killers who lurk in darkness. Imagine sitting down in a nice safe clearing and hearing a twig snap. If you know anything about this game your prepared for something dangerous, but are you prepared for that silent black clad figure with stars of steel and brutal cunning, and killing strength?

Again my only problem is how that will work with kids. The protagonists in this game are assumed to be fairly young - typically too young to appreciate ninja on the proper level as bogeymen ... and what kind of ninja is going to be messing with children in more than a "kill them and dump them in the river" sort of way? It simply seems too "grown up" of a bad guy. Now if you're running kids in their mid-late teens then it is another matter ... but also a different kind of story that you're telling.

The source book itself certainly does not stick exclusivly to Grimm's fairy tales. Mother Goose is used quite heavily and I believe that is an English source. Likewise several Characters for Alice in Wonderland are mentioned in the soruce book, including the Qeen of Hearts and the Jabberwocky. I'd see no problem with other more recent characters, or twisted versions of them featuring some where in the Grimm lands.

And isn't Peter Pan explicitly mentioned as having disapeared? Finding Peter seems to be one of the strongly implied campaign goals.

Also there is no rules that says you must make your campaign dark and bordering on Horror. There is room for a more humerous setting as well.

There is nothing limiting one to step outside of Grimm Box to shake things up. I personally (as I have mentioned before) use Spiderwick (the novel and source material) for my games. Anything else can be done depending on how the GM wants to approach it and how it needs to be served to your players. Wild and wacky I think is just as suitable even if there is a hint of dark coming through to make the players/kids a bit on edge. The more open you are to other sources of inspiration the better the arsenal at your disposal as well as helping to create a "history" in your own groups ongoing mythos.

Grimm has to be one of my top RPG's of all time which is saying a lot considering the shelves of various games I have collected over the years.

Jack of Tears said:

Just tossing this out there because; I used both of those in a game of 40K, not together but...

The unicorn's horns were psycho-reactive and the Inquistion wanted to 'farm' then to make force weapons and such. The care bears were a children toys being used by a cult to speard the influence of Chaos that gained demonic minds and spread on their own; killed people left and right, they looked and talked just like the care bears...but were evil!! lol, the guys got a kick out of it.

And on the ninja subject, just cause it's a ninja doesn't mean it must be human...think goblin ninja...a group of goblins saw a picture of a ninja long ago and wanted to become them, or something...