Why doesn’t Fantasy Flight sell pilot packs? New pilot cards (tokens too) for existing ships, sold like baseball cards (without the gum).

This way there can be a Scum pilot who flys a yt1300, or a rebel pilot that flys a JumpMaster.

Not all waves need to have new ships and this would only cost Fantasy Flight pennies to make with a much higher returned dollar value.

This can also be a way to replace existing cards that have been added to the ever growing list of errata. Fantasy Flight can make some decent money and still keep these at a low price and we could get replacement cards (Win Win).

I brought this up here, in hopes that Fantasy Flight would hear and think about it, but I think the only way this can happen is if enough people ask for it.

So please make some noise if you want those replacement cards or even just new pilots.

after reading this, I kinda just want some bubblegum...

Just now, Sciencius said:

after reading this, I kinda just want some bubblegum...

Me too.

At first I was opposed to this idea, but now with all the erratas this actually seems better than what we currently have now. Given a bunch of older upgrade cards that even if they didn't underperformed then they are now obsolete thanks to accretion and power creep. Add that FFG will only nerf the top and those useless upgrades at the bottom will continue to serve no purpose since FFG won't QoL errata them unless it is to sell a huge ship. I am all for getting some new upgrades and saying good bye to expert handling and squad leader for something much better.

At the bright side we might get a better Jek pilot ability and a better Fels wrath with recosted X-wings and TIE Bombers. However if I am going to make a suggestion let me put in my idea for an architecture of a new pilot/upgrade card system to go replace the aging and susceptible to accretion system we have now.

• Pre-sorted Packs. Don't put randomness into X-wing products. X-wing has had the advantage of knowing what you would get when you buy a pack (unlike a more recent Star Wars game that is having major balancing issues).
• Separate by Faction. Not every X-wing player collects all three. So why force Players to update ships they don't collect? All pilot cards and ship unique cards should be in a faction pack.
• Start from the first Wave or 2 and work your way back. So you could say have a Rebel Wave 1 & 2 update pack along with an Imperial Wave 1 & 2 update pack. Sure that means Scum will have to wait for a couple of boosters before they get their update. But Scum appears to be doing rather well so they can wait until the Wave 6 & 7 updates. Once you get to the end say at Wave 13 & 14 when Wave 16 just came out you can go back maybe even do the 3-4 waves at a time.
• Recycle all released pilots. Every pilot that is already out should have a replacement pilot card. You could do a few tweaks not just pilot ability like maybe drop Howlrunner by 1 point or increase Jek's pilot skill to 8 or even give Red Squadron Pilot an <EPT> slot. Every released pilot should be looked at and if it is not being seen at the top tables there should be a change to said pilot to make it better.
• Replace all upgrade cards. So for now all wave upgrade cards should be replaced. If there was a title specific to that ship it could be reprinted in an upgrade pack.

So that is my idea for a card only booster pack. Might not have been what I would support 3 months ago, but it certainly is better than the mess we currently have now, and yes it is a mess. Your Meta balance may have been fixed (I'm still skeptical on that since it still wasn't fixed the last couple of times) but the product model has been destroyed. It is clear X-wing is in serious need of a new product/business model if it wants to sustain itself for as long as it has been. A way of implementing a card refresh seems like a good way of doing such a thing.

When was the last time you bought baseball cards that you think they still come with gum?

This comes up constantly. Short answer, they've said definitively that they won't be doing this for X Wings - no card packs without miniatures. It's unclear whether this is a licensing issue (the Star Wars miniatures licensing and the card game licensing are apparently legally separate, so miniatures sales may be specifically prohibited from any sales without a miniature) or an economic issue, but my money's on the latter. Here's why:

FFG's sale price when selling a product likely has very little to do with the costs associated with printing the catds and manufacturing the miniature and printing the cards, although some minis clearly cost more than others. What you're paying for, along with the profit to the store, cost of licensing, shipping from China, art design and other ancillary costs - is the time the developers spend designing, testing and balancing the various cards and pilots.

Imagine a card pack, for example, that included a "T-65 fix". It would probably have a half dozen or so pilots (unique and generic), maybe a title or two, a couple of new astromechs, maybe some mods, EPTs, possibly even a new torpedo, maybe throw in a couple of rules cards, even a mission - essentially what you'd expect in an aces pack. Which is great, except for two things. First, without a miniature, it's entirely plausible that someone could buy a TFA core and this, and not be able to use it without buying a T-65 expansion - good for FFG maybe, but sire to make the buyer feel particularly cheated if they're a new player.

Perhaps more importantly though, that whole thing fits, effectively, into a packet the size of a magic booster, maybe a tad bigger if they need new bases - more like Destiny maybe. That retails for, what, $5-10? (Australian). But in this scenario, we're effectively talking about an entire aces pack, which costs more like $50 or $60. Even if you strip out a full third of the price to account for less packaging and the cost of the models, you're still looking at a product with an apparent price point somewhere around 5 times that of Magic and other card games. That will for sure scare off at least some potential new players who compare prices in the shop, and even existing players who don't understand the cost structure behind the game would grate at being asked to pay so much and get what would feel like so little.

It feels like a good idea from a player perspective but if you think about it, I think you'll agree it's not really in anyone's best interests - players or developers. Erratta'd cards should, IMO, be prioritised for alt arts and tournament prizes in order get the new text out to players, but that's just me.

16 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

• Pre-sorted Packs. Don't put randomness into X-wing products. X-wing has had the advantage of knowing what you would get when you buy a pack (unlike a more recent Star Wars game that is having major balancing issues).
• Separate by Faction. Not every X-wing player collects all three. So why force Players to update ships they don't collect? All pilot cards and ship unique cards should be in a faction pack.

This actually brings up a good point I should have mentioned before - both of these factors (Lack of randomness and interaction purchasing) are key to X Wing's cost relative to a card game.

Randomness drives up sales substantially - individual card packs may only be $5 in Magic, but players buy hundreds of dollars worth because randomness requires it to get rare cards. X Wing expansions are non random, so players generally only buy as many as they need. Same goes with interfactionality. I am primarily a Rebel player, but I bought the TIE Aggressor day 1 so I could run Intensity on Poe. Splitting card packs into faction specific would further decrease average sales, further driving up the price necessary to recoup costs.

And the higher the price goes, the more people will whinge about it (look at the TIE Silencer if you want an example).

Will they be blind packed and random ? How else are FFG gonna make money?

Why the **** should they not include the gum? I want gum!

I thought the cards were just there to give you something to read while you chew the gum.

No gum? No want.

2 hours ago, MacchuWA said:

This comes up constantly. Short answer, they've said definitively that they won't be doing this for X Wings - no card packs without miniatures.

The solution, then, is simple: include miniatures made out of bubble gum!

"I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ***...and I'm all out of bubblegum."

...

But yes, I would like to see pilot packs. Someone suggested that FFG released an X-Wing Magazine that would come with a card pack. That would be a great way to bring new pilots (and some fixes) to old ships, like:

• X-Wing Blue Squadron (Rogue One pilots) - with X-Wing title
• Y-Wing Rebel elite pilots
• X-Wing Partisans (Saw Guerrera and friends)
• U-Wing Partisans
• more TIE Interceptor pilots (and a TIE/i title)
• more TIE Bomber pilots (and a TIE/sa title)
• new TIE Defender pilots (and TIE/d Elite title)
• A-Wing Phoenix Squadron
• B-Wing Blade Wing prototype
• Scum YT-1300 (based on the new Han Solo film?)
• and so on...

3 hours ago, Marinealver said:

At first I was opposed to this idea, but now with all the erratas this actually seems better than what we currently have now. Given a bunch of older upgrade cards that even if they didn't underperformed then they are now obsolete thanks to accretion and power creep. Add that FFG will only nerf the top and those useless upgrades at the bottom will continue to serve no purpose since FFG won't QoL errata them unless it is to sell a huge ship. I am all for getting some new upgrades and saying good bye to expert handling and squad leader for something much better.

At the bright side we might get a better Jek pilot ability and a better Fels wrath with recosted X-wings and TIE Bombers. However if I am going to make a suggestion let me put in my idea for an architecture of a new pilot/upgrade card system to go replace the aging and susceptible to accretion system we have now.

• Pre-sorted Packs. Don't put randomness into X-wing products. X-wing has had the advantage of knowing what you would get when you buy a pack (unlike a more recent Star Wars game that is having major balancing issues).
• Separate by Faction. Not every X-wing player collects all three. So why force Players to update ships they don't collect? All pilot cards and ship unique cards should be in a faction pack.
• Start from the first Wave or 2 and work your way back. So you could say have a Rebel Wave 1 & 2 update pack along with an Imperial Wave 1 & 2 update pack. Sure that means Scum will have to wait for a couple of boosters before they get their update. But Scum appears to be doing rather well so they can wait until the Wave 6 & 7 updates. Once you get to the end say at Wave 13 & 14 when Wave 16 just came out you can go back maybe even do the 3-4 waves at a time.
• Recycle all released pilots. Every pilot that is already out should have a replacement pilot card. You could do a few tweaks not just pilot ability like maybe drop Howlrunner by 1 point or increase Jek's pilot skill to 8 or even give Red Squadron Pilot an <EPT> slot. Every released pilot should be looked at and if it is not being seen at the top tables there should be a change to said pilot to make it better.
• Replace all upgrade cards. So for now all wave upgrade cards should be replaced. If there was a title specific to that ship it could be reprinted in an upgrade pack.

So that is my idea for a card only booster pack. Might not have been what I would support 3 months ago, but it certainly is better than the mess we currently have now, and yes it is a mess. Your Meta balance may have been fixed (I'm still skeptical on that since it still wasn't fixed the last couple of times) but the product model has been destroyed. It is clear X-wing is in serious need of a new product/business model if it wants to sustain itself for as long as it has been. A way of implementing a card refresh seems like a good way of doing such a thing.

What a difference a few months makes. If only players like you had pulled their heads out of their asses years ago and demanded packs, maybe we wouldn't be in this current citation. Nice edit, btw.

4 hours ago, Hannes Solo said:

Why the **** should they not include the gum? I want gum!

THIS.

"Do you have any more gum? More gum. More gum. More gum. Do you have any more gum?" (bonus points if you get the reference)

"Now in Blue Milk flavour!"

2 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

"Now in Blue Milk flavour!"

Blue Milk Gum.

Start printing the money!

6 hours ago, JediPartisan said:

Me too.

Ahhh. The wax pack bubblegum. Brings back memories. I remember buying a pack of ten Topps baseball cards with the gum for 10 cents each. Good times, good times!

I only want the gum if it's hard a rock, impossible to chew, and loses its flavor after 10 seconds.

That's the American way.

I remember a Smothers Brothers bit where Tommy was complaining about how when they were younger, his brother's "ruffian friends" convinced him to chew the cards and collect the gum.

Cost/Benefit analysis aside, the optics of doing a bunch of erratas and then selling the upgraded cards back to the players that already own them for a profit is pretty terrible. It would be seen by many people as monetizing game balance and make the situation even worse than it is.

If erratas create the perception of direct profits for FFG, it would create the image of a conflict of interest where FFG can just errata a bunch of cards whenever it wants to make a quick buck off of card packs instead of being motivated by preserving game balance.

Ditch the cards. They are not needed to play the game, and are in fact an impediment to playing the game.

Go to an official online squad builder.

25 minutes ago, Tvboy said:

Cost/Benefit analysis aside, the optics of doing a bunch of erratas and then selling the upgraded cards back to the players that already own them for a profit is pretty terrible. It would be seen by many people as monetizing game balance and make the situation even worse than it is.

If erratas create the perception of direct profits for FFG, it would create the image of a conflict of interest where FFG can just errata a bunch of cards whenever it wants to make a quick buck off of card packs instead of being motivated by preserving game balance.

No matter what FFG does or doesn't do, someone will howl with self-righteous indignation about what they're doing. There's no winning move for them. Someone will find cause to be offended with whatever choice they make.

Here's a thought...

What if they sold the updated cards with a "mission"? That way they should be able to get around the whole, "just selling cards" thing. I'd be dtf (down to fun) with some new missions too. Plus that gives FFG a TON of ways to throw in some little extra fixes for ships w/o forcing us to break the bank OR having to buy a ship that nobody likes.

Thoughts on my thought?

24 minutes ago, Slugrage said:

No matter what FFG does or doesn't do, someone will howl with self-righteous indignation about what they're doing. There's no winning move for them. Someone will find cause to be offended with whatever choice they make.

More likely it would be other game communities that points at FFG and says "don't play their games, they errata their cards post-release just so they can sell them back to the players for a profit". "Offending someone" is very different from scaring off a large swath of potential players with dubious business practices.

You're right though, there is no right move here, so it makes sense for FFG to do nothing at all, since that is the least risky action they can take.