29 minutes ago, WHW said:

Yeah you can model the samurai looking for and finding the gaps by having to effectively aim at higher TN - if you want to deal damage to a dude in plate armor, you are effectively fighting against TN 4 - as you need to keep 2 extra successes to deal 4+2-5=1 damage.

This. Bonus successes = extra damage means a superlative Martial Arts (Melee) roll automatically becomes a 'called shot' to some sort of vulnerable spot; no specific kata needed, whilst voluntarily failing is how you avoid damage to your blade.

29 minutes ago, WHW said:

If you keep anything less than that, then well, why did you do that?

There is, to be fair, one reason you might; because you have two successes and a grab bag full of opportunities - so you wish to hit (accepting damage to your sword) in return for delivering a critical hit.

1 hour ago, Teveshszat said:

So while i bends easily it does not break from 2 bad strikes onto a armor and that is what razor edged is doing when you trigger it twice.

You are also unlikely to feel fully recovered from having a pair of crossbow quarrels put into you by two nights of good rest, but that is also part of the rather stylised mechanics of the game - and frankly pretty much every other game which lists healing rates for PC aside from Maelstrom.

I wonder what is the timing on this, actually. What happens first - damaging the sword, or the Crit? As "Damaged" tag reduces Deadliness.

1 minute ago, WHW said:

I wonder what is the timing on this, actually. What happens first - damaging the sword, or the Crit? As "Damaged" tag reduces Deadliness.

The critical. Because the critical is a product of opportunities, which are resolved before the success or failure effects.

Certain opportunities check for success or failure before being resolved. Critical is such a thing.

5 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

You are also unlikely to feel fully recovered from having a pair of crossbow quarrels put into you by two nights of good rest, but that is also part of the rather stylised mechanics of the game - and frankly pretty much every other game which lists healing rates for PC aside from Maelstrom.

Right but while the 2 nights of good rest make the game easier and more enjoyable, despite being not realistic, the razor edged quality doe neikther make the game more enjoyable nor does it make the game easier.
In addtion to that it is sill not very realistic representation. Thats why it is misleading.

Anyone else thinking the main effect of razor edge is that it is a requirement for certain kata? Hence we don’t have to worry about those kata being used with a tetsubo?

15 minutes ago, DarkIxion said:

Anyone else thinking the main effect of razor edge is that it is a requirement for certain kata? Hence we don’t have to worry about those kata being used with a tetsubo?

You mean until someone uses water smithing to give the tetsubo the razor edged quality because that can be done with the current smithing rules.

I would love Razor Edged to be both a kata-important keyword, and a stat modifying keyword that increases Deadliness by a lot.

In the similar manner, I would like a "Heavy weapon" keyword that would constitute for the difference between a club and a Tetsubo in damage, while also giving some sort of drawback, just like Razor-Edged does.

45 minutes ago, WHW said:

In the similar manner, I would like a "Heavy weapon" keyword that would constitute for the difference between a club and a Tetsubo in damage, while also giving some sort of drawback, just like Razor-Edged does.

With Cumbersome and Wargear it's not short of disadvantageous qualities for the user already....

1 hour ago, DarkIxion said:

Anyone else thinking the main effect of razor edge is that it is a requirement for certain kata? Hence we don’t have to worry about those kata being used with a tetsubo?

That is definitely the intent, as with Snaring (which currently doesn't do anything , as far as I've seen).

58 minutes ago, Teveshszat said:

You mean until someone uses water smithing to give the tetsubo the razor edged quality because that can be done with the current smithing rules.

Well, 'sharpening' a massive double-handed blunt club to a razors edge would definitely count as 'Adapting' but....yeah.

Once again, this is where the GM gets to sanity-check the idea.

Also - it's less important at the moment because the only Razor-edged kata is Iaijutsu, which specifies a one-handed grip (tetsubo and otsuchi are both 2-handed only).

37 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Also - it's less important at the moment because the only Razor-edged kata is Iaijutsu, which specifies a one-handed grip (tetsubo and otsuchi are both 2-handed only).

Yes as part of the effect not part of the prequisites.
The prequisites are everything that is in the activation bracket. Which onyl lincludes razor edged weapon and sheated. So as long as you have a sheath for a tetsubo you can use jaijutsu with it.
You could argue that the if you suceed hinders that but since this part refers to the actual melee check you make and not to the resolution of the effect. The proof for that is that all other techniques have the same structure and allways refer to the check and not to the effect.
So you still can use jaijutsu with a tetsubo as long as has the razor edged quality.
It just does not end in a one handed grip at the end of the action.
And yes thats obviously not a good thing to have in the game and that why I advocate for putting one handed in the activation line so you get "Activation; one one handed, sheathed, razoredged weapon"
to actually prevent the iaijutsu 2 handed weapon action.

3 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Well, 'sharpening' a massive double-handed blunt club to a razors edge would definitely count as 'Adapting' but....yeah.

Once again, this is where the GM gets to sanity-check the idea.

I am quite confident of my razor-edged tetsubo's sanity-shattering effectiveness.

As in being able to perfectly imagine a scene in which some Kakita duellist faces of in a iajutsu duell against a giant oni with a sheathed, one-handed, razor-eged (thank you, @Teveshszat ) tetsubo at this side, with the demons giant (and sanity-shattering - due to its razor-edgedness...) club suddenly lashing out in mind-blurring (let's see how many more hyphenated words I can cram in here) swiftness crushing/decaptitating the proud Crane who still dies with a serene smile on his face in the knowledge that no naturally-possible weapon could have had beat him so.

Also works nicely in an inverted form with a giant Crab (complete with razor-edged tetsubo) facing off against a grotesque mockery of a samurai from the Shadowlands, seemingly oozing with taint, with the vile creature's blade shattered mid stroke as it connects with the just as quickly drawn iron club of the Crab.

...

Why should I "sanity-check" these scenes again?

4 hours ago, WHW said:

I would love Razor Edged to be both a kata-important keyword, and a stat modifying keyword that increases Deadliness by a lot.

In the similar manner, I would like a "Heavy weapon" keyword that would constitute for the difference between a club and a Tetsubo in damage, while also giving some sort of drawback, just like Razor-Edged does.

Problem with the actual tags that we have is that a naginata is a razor edged weapon, so is a knife. and a scimitar.

The naginata wont allow iaijutsu because it has no sheat.(Not discussing benefits, but possibilities) The knife and the scimitar actually works with the kata. This may seem like a little thing, but it may lead to further complication in the future, with weapons that arent supposed to work with the kata, working because of a broad tag.

1 hour ago, Mobiusllls said:

Problem with the actual tags that we have is that a naginata is a razor edged weapon, so is a knife. and a scimitar.

The naginata wont allow iaijutsu because it has no sheat.

You most certainly can sheath a naginata. In fact it's a really good idea when you're just wandering about with and not actively meaning to use it.

Now, as to whether one could quick-draw it? Eh... it's not unpossible.

1 hour ago, Mobiusllls said:

The naginata wont allow iaijutsu because it has no sheat.

Thats an easy problem to fix. Just make one. Make a leather sheath you can put on your back to stow the naignata in.
When using iaijutsu you just pull it out from there. No problem at all. If you don´t want a back mounted you allways
can just put a little sheath over the sharp end.
So that does not prevent you from being able to iaijutsu with the weapon.

1 hour ago, Mobiusllls said:

The naginata wont allow iaijutsu because it has no sheat.

What?

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Saya_(naginata)

1 hour ago, Mobiusllls said:

The naginata wont allow iaijutsu because it has no sheat.

Iaijutsu doesn't work with Naginata becuase Iaijutsu requires you to draw the weapon in a one-handed grip, which is mostly why Iaijutsu sucks as written.

3 minutes ago, player2636234 said:

Iaijutsu doesn't work with Naginata becuase Iaijutsu requires you to draw the weapon in a one-handed grip, which is mostly why Iaijutsu sucks as written.

Which is wrong. That is the effect not a prequisite for the activation. The activation is only require a sheathed razor egded weapon and that you suceed the martial arts check.
So you use jiajutsu normal ybut don´t end up with the naginata in a one haned grip because it don´t has one. You still do the damage and all the other parts of the effect.

I just realized I can get my Yumi razor-edged.

Not sure why I would want that, but I can!

1 hour ago, Teveshszat said:

Which is wrong. That is the effect not a prequisite for the activation. The activation is only require a sheathed razor egded weapon and that you suceed the martial arts check.
So you use jiajutsu normal ybut don´t end up with the naginata in a one haned grip because it don´t has one. You still do the damage and all the other parts of the effect.

Your arguing that RAW you don't need a ready weapon to deal damage with an attack technique. OK.

9 hours ago, Teveshszat said:

You mean until someone uses water smithing to give the tetsubo the razor edged quality because that can be done with the current smithing rules.

Yeah, I don't really like that option. It feels wrong to me.

On 10/22/2017 at 5:09 PM, shosuko said:

Even if you took a high quality sword made of traditional steel you would not want to bash it edge to edge with another weapon - nor would you want to bash it against something to which it would not cut. Every use of a sword, and every trip through the polish is a day of its life sacrificed. Using a sword destroys it. Even his high quality blades received damage from bashing this soft-metal wall piece.

As a rapier fencer, I can attest to this. An hour of fencing needs one of sanding out the nicks... and that's without resharpening, using modern steel, and modern tempering techniques.

On the other hand, a hanwei practical rapier was good for a solid 5 years of weekly fencing 2 hours or more.

I accept the fragility as a game artifact, much like I do in TLOZ: Breath of the Wild... there for game artifact reasons, not realism.

7 hours ago, player2636234 said:

Your arguing that RAW you don't need a ready weapon to deal damage with an attack technique. OK.

The thing is having a ready weapon is the end effekt of iaijutsu your attack action comes while you draw.
So the turn of events is draw>attack>1handed grip.
you don´t need a ready weapon for iaijutsu you need a sheathed one as described for the activation of the technique.

2 hours ago, Teveshszat said:

The thing is having a ready weapon is the end effekt of iaijutsu your attack action comes while you draw.
So the turn of events is draw>attack>1handed grip.
you don´t need a ready weapon for iaijutsu you need a sheathed one as described for the activation of the technique.

Read the technique again.

Quote

Effects: You draw and ready the sheathed weapon in a one-handed grip.

If you succeed, you deal physical damage to the target equal to the weapon’s deadliness plus your bonus successes.

The draw and ready in grip happens before the success of the attack is checked. You can not Iaijutsu with a Naginata.

If you suceed is a reference to the dice check because thats the instance you have to suceed in to actually deal the damage.
The first part is just what happens regardeless of you suceeding or not.

And the only thing that is being checked for the damage is that you have suceeded in the martial arts check.

From the book:

Quote

Sheathed weapons are those on a character’s person, properly stowed
for quick access but not yet readied for use.

A weapon can be 'sheathed' if it's slung over a shoulder, in a belt, resting 'at port' or whatever. It's just a general term for 'not currently hefted to strike and pointed at the other guy', whether an actual sheath is involved or not.

Other way round.

16 hours ago, Teveshszat said:

So you still can use jaijutsu with a tetsubo as long as has the razor edged quality.
It just does not end in a one handed grip at the end of the action.

Quote

Effects: You draw and ready the sheathed weapon in a one-handed grip.
If you succeed, you deal physical damage to the target equal to the
weapon’s deadliness plus your bonus successes.

So drawing the weapon specifically

comes first (which is pretty logical).

14 hours ago, blut_und_glas said:

As in being able to perfectly imagine a scene in which some Kakita duellist faces of in a iajutsu duell against a giant oni with a sheathed, one-handed, razor-eged (thank you, @Teveshszat ) tetsubo at this side, with the demons giant (and sanity-shattering - due to its razor-edgedness...) club suddenly lashing out in mind-blurring (let's see how many more hyphenated words I can cram in here) swiftness crushing/decaptitating the proud Crane who still dies with a serene smile on his face in the knowledge that no naturally-possible weapon could have had beat him so.

I have no problem with this idea either. My comment is that given the description of the Oni's weapon.....that's no longer a Tetsubo. Whatever it may look like, if it's effect is that of a razor-sharp, one handed, decapitating weapon, why not just use the stats for a blade?