Does anyone have lore that indicates a specific age that the Dragon Clan may have adopted peasant children to be samurai?

I like the idea of Dragon samurai adopting peasant children, because those are some of my favorite characters narratively. But I was wondering if there is anything that indicates a specific age. Was it while they were still babies, or potentially when they were older and would be shoved into training as soon as possible?

The Dragon fiction of the LCG opens up with some exposition about exactly this thing.

Is that the Rising Wave story?

2 hours ago, Daitora said:

Is that the Rising Wave story?

Yes.

That story is in part what sparked this idea. I remember reading in some older editions how Dragon had this practice at times, but this is the first time I've seen it explicitly stated in lore. Not that I've read every bit of lore out there or anything. Which is why I was wondering if anyone in the community knew of a specific age, or if me writing a background about a peasant being adopted around the age of six or seven would be blasphemous.

6 hours ago, Daitora said:

That story is in part what sparked this idea. I remember reading in some older editions how Dragon had this practice at times, but this is the first time I've seen it explicitly stated in lore. Not that I've read every bit of lore out there or anything. Which is why I was wondering if anyone in the community knew of a specific age, or if me writing a background about a peasant being adopted around the age of six or seven would be blasphemous.

I think that's basically all we've got in this setting so far, so knock yourself out. Maybe we could ask @Kinzen

My mental image while writing that fic was that the children were adopted at a much younger age -- infancy to toddlerhood at the latest -- but that hasn't been nailed down as canonical. Younger makes it easier to raise them as samurai, though.

2 hours ago, Kinzen said:

My mental image while writing that fic was that the children were adopted at a much younger age -- infancy to toddlerhood at the latest -- but that hasn't been nailed down as canonical. Younger makes it easier to raise them as samurai, though.

Thank you for your reply. I had it in my mind that it would be cool to have a Dragon samurai that still remembered being a peasant. I think that can still work, if they were adopted at the tail-end of toddlerhood.

Ise Zumi are all "adopted" (excepting Togashi-kami himself under his adopted name Togashi Yokuna) and not all are of Samurai origin. Togashi-kami isn't terribly picky, provided they actually seek enlightenment.

the only "Ise Zumi" really descended from Togashi Kami is Hoshi Sama.

I'd maybe say Togashi is probably very picky in his choice of Ise Zumi, but his pickiness follow neither sense nor reason.

1 hour ago, Nitenman said:

I'd maybe say Togashi is probably very picky in his choice of Ise Zumi, but his pickiness follow neither sense nor reason.

That's how I play it.

On 10/11/2017 at 8:25 AM, Kinzen said:

My mental image while writing that fic was that the children were adopted at a much younger age -- infancy to toddlerhood at the latest -- but that hasn't been nailed down as canonical. Younger makes it easier to raise them as samurai, though.

"Too old, the boy is. Train him, we cannot."

- Togashi Yoda

There are enough Ise Zumi that he fielded companies of them in the Clan War... so Togashi-hakase can't be all that picky.

All Ise Zumi carry his blood in their tattoos.. perhaps he takes all wh survive the trial to arrive, but not all those those who become Ise Zumi have exactly the same freedom of thinking, as his vision burns into them... Which might, in fact, make for a good take on the dragon... as the Ise Zumi gain in power, they lose self... becoming part of Togashi in more than a metaphoric sense.

Or maybe the real goal of Ise Zumi was for him to ensure he has enough Tamashi (beings able to host his soul). But IIRC Tamashi was a concept introduced in 3e, retconning Togashi Mitsu.

I think it's worthwhile pointing out that, up to the end of To the South , we have absolutely no proof that Yokuni is Togashi in this timeline. In fact, the way he's portrayed in the Dragon fiction, he very much might not be.

On 10/17/2017 at 4:20 PM, AK_Aramis said:

There are enough Ise Zumi that he fielded companies of them in the Clan War...

Officially that number stands in the hundreds during the Old5R clan wars.

On 19/10/2017 at 8:57 AM, BitRunr said:

Officially that number stands in the hundreds during the Old5R clan wars.

Around three hundred if I remember correctly.

6 hours ago, Suzume Chikahisa said:

Around three hundred if I remember correctly.

Which would be, at 7 Guntai ("Platoon") per Kaisha (Company), and 20 men per Guntai, about 140 men and 5 cadre per Kaisha, so about 2 Kaisha.

Every Ise Zumi would have to be willing to fight to consider them such. Many aren't, and the Dragon aren't inclined to push them.

Also the Dragon Clan didn't use that system, altough I suppose Masters of War might have changed that.

11 hours ago, Suzume Chikahisa said:

Also the Dragon Clan didn't use that system, altough I suppose Masters of War might have changed that.

Cite for that?

dup

Way Of The Dragon, p23.

Quote

Because they are the Clan's military might, the Mirumoto's structure is much more regimental than the Togashi family. While the Togashi pay little attention to things such as rank, the Mirumoto find it absolutely necessary to know who stands where in the social order.

P25 goes on to describe ranks and units.

On 30/10/2017 at 11:42 PM, AK_Aramis said:

Cite for that?

Way of the Dragon.

On 10/16/2017 at 3:03 PM, Nitenman said:

the only "Ise Zumi" really descended from Togashi Kami is Hoshi Sama.

I'd maybe say Togashi is probably very picky in his choice of Ise Zumi, but his pickiness follow neither sense nor reason.

The fluffy/story seems to imply that the candidates would receive a vision possibly from Togashi Kami but no one but Togashi knows the truth of that.

Would have to climb the mountain to the High House of Light/Kyuden Togashi and present themselves before Togash

On 10/16/2017 at 11:20 PM, AK_Aramis said:

There are enough Ise Zumi that he fielded companies of them in the Clan War... so Togashi-hakase can't be all that picky.

Would not put to much faith in Clan Wars as it also had the void guard.

Quote

All Ise Zumi carry his blood in their tattoos.. perhaps he takes all wh survive the trial to arrive, but not all those those who become Ise Zumi have exactly the same freedom of thinking, as his vision burns into them... Which might, in fact, make for a good take on the dragon... as the Ise Zumi gain in power, they lose self... becoming part of Togashi in more than a metaphoric sense.

One thing that is missed here is that later stories revealed that the Ise Zumi were less a force to be fielded then a search for spare bodies for Togashi. LOL