Hi everyone

I'm a long time player of L5R 1st and 2nd edition (now approaching to 4rth edition); now they announced a FFG version of the game (can we name it the 5th edition? dunno... but 5 is a good number for Rokugan ) and i'm both excited and fearful

Excited because it's a game i loved in the past (even if really not simple to play as intended and really easy to screw up things with wrong - or just unexperienced - players or masters). Fearful because every iteration of the setting completely screwed up what good was done before (in my opinion).
Luckily in the 4th edition they let you play in different timelines, so you can play in time where Rokugan was a very good and solid fantasy world with japanes-like theme, before coming a nightmarish piece of s***...
No offense taken to whoever write it. I dunno if authors/writers did their best to put a little coherency in something forced by a non coherent system (the CCG tournament) or if it's their fault... but they came up from a really good, solid and intriguing setting (the 1 ed), to a "good idea, bad development" world (scorpion clan coup) to a "total pile of s***" (emperor fu leng, hitomi killing the moon, living shadows became akodo, alliance with the shadowlands and spider clan...) and everything going after is reaaaaaaaaaly worse...

So, i know will not be in the 1rst edition timeline (they already stated "the chrysanthemum throne" in the news... ) but hopefully they could retcon whatever was written from scorpion clan coup onward in something is not painful for your intelligence to read... x_x
Ok ok, maybe is just me and everyone else loved the clan war, spirit war, and whatever happened after 1123... but well... that's my hope

so...
a) what did you think will be the setting?
b) what did you whant for the setting?
c) there is official news about the timeline?

No official news about the timeline for the RPG, but I would expect it to be congruent with the LCG and the fictions, which have rebooted things to shortly before what in old canon was the Scorpion Clan Coup. And there are various alterations, ranging from the relatively small (Doji Hoturi has been gender-swapped to Doji Hotaru, but is still in a relationship with Kachiko) to the much larger (the Dragon are dealing with a heretical Shinseist sect and are adopting peasant children to raise as samurai to make up for a declining birthrate; there's an argument over meishodo which has resulted in Iuchi Shahai being sent to Otosan Uchi to teach the Seppun how it works), which make it clear that even if the story follows the same general shape as before, it won't play out in exactly the same way. The RPG may or may not focus on those details in how it presents the setting, but I'd expect the baselines to be the same: seven Great Clans, Hantei on the throne, etc.

The new storyline has been ok.

In truth we don't have much to go on right now. For the most part the new story seems to take place in early to mid 1120 IC. Which in the old time line would be around 3 year before the Scorpion Coup. Most if not all the events so far have been dead-on or close to the old history under AEG. There have been some minor changed to the background so far

Doji Hotaru (girl Doji Hoturi) killing Akodo Arasou herself. Also Toturi being present at the battle was new to the story as in the original Toturi was away when this happened.

Other changes, There at lest at this point does not seem to be any indication that Bayushi Shoju thinks that the emperor needs to be removed from power, but it was not till 1122 IC when the Prophecies of Uikku were found in the chasm that he determined that the last Hantei Emperor would bring the downfall of Rokugan, so he instigated a plot to assassinate Emperor Hantei XXXVIII.

The meishōdō story in kind of new from a certain point of view. It did exists in the AEG timeline but not to the existent it is being covered here.

Current timeline.

Old plot threads

1. Hotaru and Kachiko's affair.

2. Fear of meishōdō but ramped up from 2 to 11 this time.

3. Death of Akodo Arasou and the rise of Toturi as the new clan Champion.

4. Togashi's visions

N ew plot threads

1. Perfect Land Sect.

2. Dragon declining birthrates.

3. Crane famine.

4. Death of Shiba Ujimitsu seems to replace Shiba Burisagi from the AEG timeline.

5. Shinjo Altansarnai (girl Shinjo Yokatsu) aborted wedding to Ikoma Anakazu, and the war it will start.

Possible hidden plot threads

1. Scorpion Clan Coup. For this one some of the signs are there, but there is nothing concrete.

a) The talk between Kachiko and Shoju shows that there are thoughts about the possibility of a Coup.

b) Togashi Yokuni’s visions "the cresting edge of the wave, curling overhead like a scorpion’s tail bringing Devastation. Otosan Uchi laid waste; countless lives lost."

On this one I'm stumped, This could either be an indicator that the Coup will happen at some point in the timeline, a cleaver faint to throw the old timers off, or FFG hedging their bets so they can go that route if the player base's options force it.

Overall the new plot threads seem to be more side stories then main plots. This to me is fine. If they can spread meta plot points out with smaller subplots that will allow for more development of the timeline and a better story I'm all for it. I will see were it goes, but I'm not holding my breath.

I do (and it's purely a personal view) hope that what seeps across as "Evil Fandom" for the acceptance of the Shadowlands stuff as 'legit' in Rokugan and I gather was as a consequence introduced by player-driven excesses in the CCG-effect on the game world, will be reined in sharply. Scorpion Coup: fine. Shadowlands alliances: not so much...

Not a fan of Hotaru. There seems very little good reason to gender-swap that character in a setting that has already been historically pretty gender neutral with plenty of strong female characters. I mean, L5R was doing that 20 years ago, with female characters seamlessly occupying positions of power both traditional and non-traditional, and even being subversive when placed in disempowered positions. Using it to shoehorn a lesbian subplot at the forefront of the story bothers me simply for the fact that it feels like a forced and unnecessary change for no other reason than the designers to be all "Look, inclusivity with major protagonists!" I know there will be somebody to vehemently and rudely disagree with me, but as somebody who appreciates story and genuine writing, anything that feels artificially created for real-world meta reasons in a fictional-historical setting automatically sticks way, way out. It also removes the very real and severe lineal consequences of Kachicko's dalliances if she's suddenly just bi-curious. There's a reason why extramarital affairs were such a big deal in feudal societies. Kachiko bearing the child of another man while married to a Clan Champion is a huge deal. An affair with another woman is almost irrelevant. A footnote. The hidden ongoing romance, the true identity of Bayushi Dairu, etc. Those were important elements of the characters of Hoturi, Kachiko and Shoju. What does Shoju care if his wife likes to carry on a lesbian affair? He has a world of potential concubines. At worst he's just... sad. All he needs from Kachiko is an heir.

In a setting with a wealth of other characters whose sexuality were of no consequence to the original storyline and therefore perfect candidates for showcasing some kind of sexual preference inclusivity in L5R for a modern audience, Hotchiko is just so glaringly... conspicuous. Though, maybe I'm wrong, now that I've realized the portmanteau can be Hotchiko.

If they get rid of the Scorpion Coup, their version of the metaplot is officially KIA and I won't care what they do because it won't be L5R for me.

Hoturi is my favorite character from Clan wars. This "forced romance" makes me pretty happy because now the really stupid stories he was a part of may not happen, and if we have to lose Dairu for it oh freaking well.

I'd much prefer to get a character who doesn't spend half the storyline tied up and impersonated.

Besides, we have seen the vaguest hints of a romance, we have no idea what is different about it besides the obvious.

If not the fact that Hotaru being a woman kills off the whole Hoturi Egg Bizzarre Adventures, I would almost prefer for Kachiko to be a man or, even better, for Toturi to end up a woman. Would be also a great opportunity to fix the goddamn name. I also deeply hope for Scorpion Coup not existing, or at best being a coup aimed against Shoju for being a "passive fool".

I also won't lie, one of things that made me interested in Phoenix clan was the switch to Tsukune as a champion. I'm generally almost happy with the gender distribution amongst the protagonists, but I count Togashi as a "/" as far as gender goes :P.

will they brought back the prophecies of Uikku, knowing that I guess they 'll try to take a distance from what Uikku created? . For those who don't know, Uikku was just a basic romajisation of John Wick's name. For those who don't know John Wick, well he's the Gigax of L5R RPG.

Honestly I thought the decision to make Hoturi into Hotaru this time was a bit clever.

I might be reading to much into the writers love for the original lore but i figured it was more of a reference towards the original Crane Thunder(s) Doji Konishiko who shared the soul of her twin brother, Yasurugi, whod died before the 1st day of Thunder and were regarded as the twin thunders.

Seeing as the main players of the second day of thunder are relatively the same and its unlikely that it wont come to pass to a similar if not divergent plot line i figured it was more of a symbolic subversion than a attempt at any progressive relationship ideas.

While there some people who have mixed feelings about how unhinged the scale of the AEG timeline got in regards to large deific good vs evil wars went i thought it offered alot of fasinating possibilities and settings for your own stories in the RPG.

You could still have your classic samurai conflicts of political intrigue and martial warfare with settings like the Yasuki wars or clan border disputes, and your conspiracy venues by roping in a mix of scorpion/kolat plots or the mysteries of gajin or the phoniex or dragon clans hiding nemuranai

But it also provided truely unique settings in the timeline where you could have occurances that wouldnt make sense elsewhere like returned spirits during the spirit wars hunting hooks from their unresolved pasts, a rokugan without a sun on the brink of erasure by the Lying Darkness, and espicially everything ivory kingdoms thank you.

To each their own but as outlandish as some of the plot twist with personalities and the Throne got it was never boring

Also does this mean Shahai isnt a bloodspeaker this time around?

18 hours ago, tenchi2a said:

4. Death of Shiba Ujimitsu seems to replace Shiba Burisagi from the AEG timeline.

Has there been any mention of this outside of the first Phoenix fiction? I seem to recall references to his untimely or early death, but no hard information either way on whether it was as ignominious as Burisagi's seppuku (in the old timeline.) I felt from the new fiction that Ujimitsu's death wasn't spoken of as shameful in anyway, and that he was treated as honorable dead.

There was a sense of nostalgia about it, even. Kind of like he was terminally sick and everyone had time to make their peace with him leaving.

5 hours ago, Suzume Tomonori said:

Has there been any mention of this outside of the first Phoenix fiction? I seem to recall references to his untimely or early death, but no hard information either way on whether it was as ignominious as Burisagi's seppuku (in the old timeline.) I felt from the new fiction that Ujimitsu's death wasn't spoken of as shameful in anyway, and that he was treated as honorable dead.

I was more pointing to the timing of Shiba Burisagi death then the cause.

8 hours ago, Shiba Rana said:

Also does this mean Shahai isnt a bloodspeaker this time around?

We'll probably find out the answer to that when it becomes clear exactly how bad an idea it was to let Shahai get close to the Emperor.

8 hours ago, Shiba Rana said:

Also does this mean Shahai isnt a bloodspeaker this time around?

I'm pretty sure she became a bloodspeaker some time after her gempukku, because of something she found. This time, she's a hostage sensei for the Seppun in Otosan Uchi, meaning she won't be put into the same situation.

Who knows?

1 minute ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

I'm pretty sure she became a bloodspeaker some time after her gempukku, because of something she found. This time, she's a hostage sensei for the Seppun in Otosan Uchi, meaning she won't be put into the same situation.

Who knows?

She found "Grandfather" The spirit who was the yokai of Yogo Junzo. It was in the form of a skull on which she had Painting the kanji symbol of Void in her own blood. And in the original timeline this happened after the clan wars.

AFAIR, she needs first to find Yogo Junzo's skull.

So first Junzo has to die during the 2nd Day of thunder.

so we need first to have a Junzo and a clan war.

so many unknowns... Feels like it will look like a giant "what if..." With lots of winks toward previous L5R fan base.

We have Yogo Junzo. I think he was mentioned in the Scorpion intro fiction.

You might like this in the LCG area:

Well they just restart the timeline hahaha with hantei

I've just finished reading the beta book. I haven't been following the LCG so I don't know what's been happening there.

I too was wondering about the timeline/setting of the RPG.

To me, it seems that you could as a GM set it at the original timeline year for 1st Edition. Which I played in campaigns and ran games for, also the same for the 3rd and 4th Editions.

Love the setting and It's gonna take a while to figure out how this new system works.

See how we go before making too many assumptions no?

thing is so far it seems timeline neutral. Probably core rulebook would be. So getting the 4th ed imperial histories book can let you do any setting.

Might take a group back to the dawn of the Empire.

5 hours ago, Nitenman said:

thing is so far it seems timeline neutral. Probably core rulebook would be. So getting the 4th ed imperial histories book can let you do any setting.

Might take a group back to the dawn of the Empire.

Or in the Space!!!
(even if i'd like more a technomantic-cyberpunk era... )