Unless the plan backfires and people who own AI refuse to buy those miniatures again?

the more I look at what I have the more it makes sense for them to provide conversion kits.

5 hours ago, quantumsheep said:

There's a Rangers expansion for IA that is pretty much the Endor troops, but apart from that, here's a wall of text for you...

I think I'm disappointed because I've seen how models can be used across different games. Specifically, from my own experience, Knight Models with their Batman Miniatures game and DC Universe Miniatures Game. Despite being different games, many models from the former can be used in the latter. And KM has released a 'multiverse' line which specifically makes models playable in both games (with two sets of stat cards, one for each game).

Then there's Aliens Vs Predator, which is a tile based board game but has been developed into a war-game (AVP Unleashed) via a rulebook. Sound familiar? Models from the board game can be used in the war-game and vice versa.

I'm sure others might have some other examples.

IA does this thing where when you buy a big-box expansion, you get cards and tokens for units that don't have a figure in the box. The best example is probably Boba Fett, who was on the box of the Twin Shadows expansion, but had to be bought separately.

When you *do* buy the Boba Fett expansion, you get a duplicate set of cards (in case you skipped the Twin Shadows big box). My thinking was that was a bit wasteful, but if they can do that, they could conceivably include an extra card for a stormtrooper group in Legion, or for a character/commander, for example, and you could use your IA figures.

What's more, I actually really like the IA miniatures! I like that (apart from the huge figures like the AT-ST and the Rancor etc) they come in one piece, already on a base, no glueing etc. I have a real pet peeve with metal miniatures from the Batman Miniatures Game, for example, because even if I store them pretty well, sometimes they break (especially if I fumble and drop them!) and I find that I enjoy painting, but not putting figures together much.

If the two games were at the same scale, then you could also buy Legion miniatures to beef up your IA games (troopers with a greater variety of poses etc). You could buy stuff for Legion and IA. Buying an expansion for one of the games would automatically give you more options in the other.

Apart from financial cost (which, personally, if I get into Legion would mean I'd have to give up something else) there's the time cost too of preparing the figures (if you want to paint them that is) which would be negated if you could use already painted IA figures.

The perhaps sad fact of the matter is that there was a decision made to deliberately make the scales different. Why, I don't know. Some say that it's because Hasbro takes a cut off all IA stuff (that's a rumour though) but we've not heard anything concrete. So it seems arbitrary.

If the decision to make the Legion and IA scale the same had been there from the start, at the game's inception, there's a multitude of ways you could synergise the two games.

Yes, they're two different games, but the games are related. They're both Star Wars games that use miniature plastic figures. Much the same as the Batman game is related to the DC game, or AVP to AVP Unleashed.

I've seen some people mention that 'oh no, I can't use my X-wings in Armada'. I think everyone knows that's disingenuous as the scale is vastly different. If you were new to gaming and looked at the back of the box for Legion and IA you'd be forgiven for thinking they might be from the same game (and I can imagine a tiny 'not compatible with IA' disclaimer on the back of the Legion box).

I think they missed a trick here. But hey, it's done, I've said what I want to say, and many others have too. While disappointing I will look out for this when it's available. The fake 'Wave 1' pic got me excited because a snow speeder won't show up in IA, and that really brought home the difference in the two games. Again, like BMG/DCUMG and AVP/AVP Unleashed, a different game doesn't have to mean different models.

I'm interested in both IA and Legion. The former I'll play in a group. The latter I'll play with a friend. I can enjoy both I'm sure.

Anyway, like I said, I'll look out for it. I'm still excited, just a bit less so

QS =D

The way IA is released, using Fett as the example you brought up, is exactly one of the reasons i got out of it. it felt very wasteful and a box would come out for $40 and have another $60+ in blisters and then you have so many duplicates and extra widgets it was cumbersome.

People will find ways to synergize. Don't kid yourself if you dont think someone is going to make bases you can add to your IA and homebrew cards. they may not be official. The more important part of not integrating IA means that to be able to use Han you have to wait for Han to drop in Legion. If they integrated and the Legion Han was $15 but IA is $12 I feel less people would buy the Legion models. $3 is not a lot but it is when the wave has 4 kits and you buy 2 of everything.

Lastly, FFGs goal is not to convert its IA players to Legion. Why steal from yourself. Their goal is to convert 40k and Warmachine Hordes players away from GW and Privateer Press. I would be shocked in FFG is not at NOVA, one of the biggest 40k conventions (and decently sized WMH convention) pumping the living **** out of legion. Even if you convert 1% of the 40k players, thats a huge number.

I have to say, I agree with the OP.

Different games.

As someone who never got into IA because of their OK-ish quality minis, I'm super excited for Legion. While there will likely be IA players who now avoid legion because of the inability to crossover, Legion has attracted many new players locally who primarily played other tabletop wargame systems (guildball, infinity, 40K, etc.), myself included. I think it's a mistake to assume that this decision will only lose them sales.

Also, most other companies with cross-compatibility usually either have giant core products with new games being small standalone add-ons (GW) or allow the crossover of only a portion of the game (insuring sales of other required units). I think it'd be kind of nutts to basically allow players to sidestep buying the miniatures for this game. But that's just my opinion.

1 hour ago, TylerTT said:

Unless the plan backfires and people who own AI refuse to buy those miniatures again?

That's highly unlikely to actually happen, at least with the Skirmish players. Most of whom got into IA because it was the only SW skirmish game out there. The campaign only types are less likely to get into Legion but that's because they enjoy a different type of game. Especially the skirmish players who are also into the hobby side of things, because these models are clearly superior

The fact that GW is selling single model packs for $35 and from what I can tell selling a lot of them, proves that a lot of gamers may complain about something like this but they still take out their wallet.

1 hour ago, TylerTT said:

Unless the plan backfires and people who own AI refuse to buy those miniatures again?

Highly unlikely!

1 hour ago, TylerTT said:

the more I look at what I have the more it makes sense for them to provide conversion kits.

Erh NO!

It makes sense for you that they do, but not for FFG.

If they make a conversion kit, a lot of IA players would probably buy it, but that wouldnt make FFG a lot of money since every player would only buy one and the price/profit would be low.

If they dont make a conversion kit, a part of the IA player base would not buy Legion. But the rest will and they will make a LOT more money off of those players!

This makes them sound all coorporatelike and evul, but hey money makes the world go round. If this strategy is what it takes to finance publishin an awsome SW tabletop wargame, then fine by me!

45 minutes ago, Zeelobby said:

As someone who never got into IA because of their OK-ish quality minis, I'm super excited for Legion. While there will likely be IA players who now avoid legion because of the inability to crossover, Legion has attracted many new players locally who primarily played other tabletop wargame systems (guildball, infinity, 40K, etc.), myself included. I think it's a mistake to assume that this decision will only lose them sales.

Yep, I see this argument from a lot of people who either had IA or have never played/collected it. It's bang on the money that they would have no issues as there's no investment there. While I certainly hope Legion will appeal to as many people as possible, it's obvious there's a fair bit of interest from IA players too, and some of them are disappointed.

35 minutes ago, VanorDM said:

That's highly unlikely to actually happen, at least with the Skirmish players. Most of whom got into IA because it was the only SW skirmish game out there. The campaign only types are less likely to get into Legion but that's because they enjoy a different type of game. Especially the skirmish players who are also into the hobby side of things, because these models are clearly superior

The fact that GW is selling single model packs for $35 and from what I can tell selling a lot of them, proves that a lot of gamers may complain about something like this but they still take out their wallet.

Honestly, from Bespin onwards IA has appealed less and less to me, so I was already a little reticent to jump into the post-Hoth big box expansions and now, unless at a bargain price, I may never get them. Because personally, something has to give in my financial/temporal budgeting, and if I were to get into Legion then it will probably be IA that stops being bought.

I'm a campaign only guy, with plenty of that still to play through (and a bunch of still unpainted miniatures on the painting desk). I am also interested in Legion. I'm here after all! So the notion that people that play one won't be interested in the other just doesn't really wash with me.

I think the overall unifying draw is that it's Star Wars, and I think we can all say that we love that! ****, I even want to play the RPG except that setting up a group for that would be difficult, it would hardly ever be played, and I can't afford it. I'd still buy it if I had enough money to buy all the books, though! I love game systems!

We'll see how this shakes out. IA will probably suffer on my side, but Legion will gain. As I mentioned previously in this thread, with other companies synergising their product lines, it's just a shame FFG didn't do the same here. But them's the breaks.

QS =D

3 minutes ago, quantumsheep said:

So the notion that people that play one won't be interested in the other just doesn't really wash with me.

I didn't say they wouldn't be interested, just less likely to be so.

Isn't this whole argument silly when we all know it comes down to one simple thing... money? Which, to me, is understandable by the way.

That's debatable as there is plenty of resistance to collecting two ranges of miniatures that have heavy overlap in subject matter.

Just now, TylerTT said:

That's debatable as there is plenty of resistance to collecting two ranges of miniatures that have heavy overlap in subject matter.

No there really isn't... Not in any other game out there. Most people who play 40k, Infinity, Bolt Action, ect.. Collect more than one faction and not even completely different factions. Lots of people have more than one chapter of Space Marines, with the only difference between them being the color they're painted.

People may complain about it here, but they'll still be putting their money down to pay for Legion when it comes out. The idea that FFG will see poor sales of Legion because it isn't the same scale as IA is wishful thinking.

Plus as has been pointed out many times before, most people aren't actually going to have an issue with people using IA models in Legion. So unless you're playing at Regionals or something, what FFG says about compatability really doesn't matter.

6 minutes ago, davepaulstanley said:

Isn't this whole argument silly when we all know it comes down to one simple thing... money? Which, to me, is understandable by the way.

I actually agree with you!

My personal situation is that I have less time and money to spend on all this stuff. I buy/paint/collect/play Batman Miniatures, DC miniatures, Rebellion, Xcom, Imperial Assault, AVP, X-Wing and Armada amongst others. Of late, alas, I've come to the realisation that unless I find a big suitcase full of money buried somewhere I'm not going to be able to keep up with all these games!

What I like about the Batman game is that when I buy, build and paint a figure there's a chance I can use it with the DC game. It actually does influence my buying decision for the Batman figures as they're really expensive right now. Do I just buy a figure I can use with one game I play, or do I buy this other figure that can be used in two games?

I understand it's about money for FFG and that's fine. I just find it disappointing when smaller companies like Knight Models or Prodos can create synergy for their models across a couple of games and FFG made decision not to.

Anyway, I will try not to get back into this as it's not going to change and it's not particularly productive. I'm looking forward to crying into my empty wallet when the vehicles arrive in Legion!

QS =D

1 minute ago, quantumsheep said:

I just find it disappointing when smaller companies like Knight Models or Prodos can create synergy for their models across a couple of games and FFG made decision not to.

I think those smaller companies have to do that. Especially given the price of the Knight models, they're Amazing looking but **** they're spendy. But given that fact they have to do everything they can to make sure and sell as many as they can, and given their smaller size can't exclude models...

Whereas FFG looked at it and decided that for them the bottom line is better if they keep the lines separate. We have to keep in mind that unlike us, FFG actually knows what's in their license and what their production costs are, and what makes the most sense for them. It's not like they used a dartboard with Compatible one one side and Not Compatible on the other to make this decision.

Knight is an interesting choice for this, given how angry they made a lot of people by entirely dropping their Marvel game out of the blue, a week after they did a big sale on the models....knowing **** game would be dead right after.

Pure callous move to shift their stock before announcing the game was dead.

No....I'll take FFG over Knight every day thanks.

4 minutes ago, Extropia said:

Knight is an interesting choice for this, given how angry they made a lot of people by entirely dropping their Marvel game out of the blue, a week after they did a big sale on the models....knowing **** game would be dead right after.

Pure callous move to shift their stock before announcing the game was dead.

No....I'll take FFG over Knight every day thanks.

It is interesting, and you're right, it was a **** move, but I still have all the Marvel figures, I can still play the game, and I can actually mix/match the Marvel stuff with the newer DC stuff as they're based off the same system.

I'm not saying any company is perfect, or behave perfectly all the time.

QS =D

(Edit to add: Warlord did a similar thing with their Judge Dredd game - I bought a bunch of minis in a huge sale they were having, then they cancelled the game. Annoying, but I still have the figures and the game to play!)

Fair. That one is a sore spot with me. Dropping the game....sure, go for it. They are a company after all. The sneaky stock clearance left a bad taste though.

But you're right, it's not like the models aren't useable. Much like....IA models?

Prodos (AvP publishers) is an even weirder choice than Knight as they have really screwed the pooch on their KS for that game, shipping a second edition of AvP before some backers have gotten any of the pledge rewards and there are still outsanding items from the KS. As I understood it, the "Unleashed" minis game is either entirely or partially in that category.

What I don't understand is the backlash some fans are having toward those who are upset about the scale.

As an IA player who very possibly may not ever pick up Legion now anyway, I think I'd be far more incentivized to buy if it means cool and alternate poses for my stormtroopers (and other units in the future) that didn't make my new units look like Andre the Giant compared to my old ones.

And as others have pointed out, it's not like conversion kits are some unheard of thing.

29 minutes ago, subtrendy2 said:

I think I'd be far more incentivized to buy if it means cool and alternate poses for my stormtroopers

Good news ! Legion figures are completely compatible with Imperial Assault. It's the other way round where it gets a little tricky. There is no reason why you couldn't use Legion figs as alternate sculpts in your IA games. Consider yourself incentivized ~

31 minutes ago, subtrendy2 said:

What I don't understand is the backlash some fans are having toward those who are upset about the scale.

As an IA player who very possibly may not ever pick up Legion now anyway, I think I'd be far more incentivized to buy if it means cool and alternate poses for my stormtroopers (and other units in the future) that didn't make my new units look like Andre the Giant compared to my old ones.

And as others have pointed out, it's not like conversion kits are some unheard of thing.

Ok, you won't get the game. What am I supposed to do about that?

59 minutes ago, Manchu said:

Good news ! Legion figures are completely compatible with Imperial Assault. It's the other way round where it gets a little tricky. There is no reason why you couldn't use Legion figs as alternate sculpts in your IA games. Consider yourself incentivized ~

Primaris storm troopers!

File it under "First Order" or something ...

57 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

Ok, you won't get the game. What am I supposed to do about that?

Rejoyce? If this game sells like SW destiny does... him not buying the game means some one else will get the chance.

IA=boadgame with "boardgame" (lower quality) miniatures. Legion=tabletop miniatures wargame with "miniature wargame" (higher) quality miniatures for hobbyists. HUGE difference between both of them and their target audience. If you don't understand or accept that then Legion is not for you. And yes i do own all of IA that has been released.

1 hour ago, Undeadguy said:

Ok, you won't get the game. What am I supposed to do about that?

No one is asking you to do anything about it.

Unless you happen to be a decision maker at FFG. Then please announce a conversion kit.