All you people who complaint about minis not being same scale as IA. Please tell me what/how did you expect to resuse your IA minis in Legion?

Lets say the minis were the same scale. Granted if you buy a Legion core set you could have another stormtrooper group using your IA core set content.

But apart from that?

The rebel troopers (endor kind) in Legion does not exist in IA.

You could argue that FFG will probably add Legion expansions that contain some of the same units as IA expansions. Yes, but you would still need the unit cards. Those could be printet you say. Allright, they could, but come on. If you are ok with printing cards, then you will be ok with minis being a bit off in scale!

Another thing. Legion is about groups of infantry. IA is about individual characters. How many of all the IA minis do you own more than 4 of?

What other reuse scenarios are there?

I just dont see IA minis reused in Legion, but thats for a lot of other reasons than figure scale.

You guys must have a lot of plans for reuse, since you are complainig that much. Please explain.

Conversion kit like Descent with the first edition. And then you can reuse as example:

Heroes:

• Chewbacca
• Han
• Leia
• R2D2
• C3PO
• Empire officers
• Empire generals
• ...

With same scale maybe you can use also monsters and huge units of IA like the following:ç

• Rancor
• AT-ST
• Repulsor tank

Regular troops:

• Stormtroopers
• Snowtroopers

Maybe not all the stuff from IA could be reused but some of it could be reused with a conversion kit.

But anyway the scale is changed, no more this option is available. Thanks FFG.

There's a Rangers expansion for IA that is pretty much the Endor troops, but apart from that, here's a wall of text for you...

I think I'm disappointed because I've seen how models can be used across different games. Specifically, from my own experience, Knight Models with their Batman Miniatures game and DC Universe Miniatures Game. Despite being different games, many models from the former can be used in the latter. And KM has released a 'multiverse' line which specifically makes models playable in both games (with two sets of stat cards, one for each game).

Then there's Aliens Vs Predator, which is a tile based board game but has been developed into a war-game (AVP Unleashed) via a rulebook. Sound familiar? Models from the board game can be used in the war-game and vice versa.

I'm sure others might have some other examples.

IA does this thing where when you buy a big-box expansion, you get cards and tokens for units that don't have a figure in the box. The best example is probably Boba Fett, who was on the box of the Twin Shadows expansion, but had to be bought separately.

When you *do* buy the Boba Fett expansion, you get a duplicate set of cards (in case you skipped the Twin Shadows big box). My thinking was that was a bit wasteful, but if they can do that, they could conceivably include an extra card for a stormtrooper group in Legion, or for a character/commander, for example, and you could use your IA figures.

What's more, I actually really like the IA miniatures! I like that (apart from the huge figures like the AT-ST and the Rancor etc) they come in one piece, already on a base, no glueing etc. I have a real pet peeve with metal miniatures from the Batman Miniatures Game, for example, because even if I store them pretty well, sometimes they break (especially if I fumble and drop them!) and I find that I enjoy painting, but not putting figures together much.

If the two games were at the same scale, then you could also buy Legion miniatures to beef up your IA games (troopers with a greater variety of poses etc). You could buy stuff for Legion and IA. Buying an expansion for one of the games would automatically give you more options in the other.

Apart from financial cost (which, personally, if I get into Legion would mean I'd have to give up something else) there's the time cost too of preparing the figures (if you want to paint them that is) which would be negated if you could use already painted IA figures.

The perhaps sad fact of the matter is that there was a decision made to deliberately make the scales different. Why, I don't know. Some say that it's because Hasbro takes a cut off all IA stuff (that's a rumour though) but we've not heard anything concrete. So it seems arbitrary.

If the decision to make the Legion and IA scale the same had been there from the start, at the game's inception, there's a multitude of ways you could synergise the two games.

Yes, they're two different games, but the games are related. They're both Star Wars games that use miniature plastic figures. Much the same as the Batman game is related to the DC game, or AVP to AVP Unleashed.

I've seen some people mention that 'oh no, I can't use my X-wings in Armada'. I think everyone knows that's disingenuous as the scale is vastly different. If you were new to gaming and looked at the back of the box for Legion and IA you'd be forgiven for thinking they might be from the same game (and I can imagine a tiny 'not compatible with IA' disclaimer on the back of the Legion box).

I think they missed a trick here. But hey, it's done, I've said what I want to say, and many others have too. While disappointing I will look out for this when it's available. The fake 'Wave 1' pic got me excited because a snow speeder won't show up in IA, and that really brought home the difference in the two games. Again, like BMG/DCUMG and AVP/AVP Unleashed, a different game doesn't have to mean different models.

I'm interested in both IA and Legion. The former I'll play in a group. The latter I'll play with a friend. I can enjoy both I'm sure.

Anyway, like I said, I'll look out for it. I'm still excited, just a bit less so

QS =D

Good news for those who dislike assembling minis. If Legion minis are like RW minis, they will take almost no time to assemble and will not fall apart if glued together with plastic glue (as opposed to super glue). I assembled all the Daqans out of the RW core in under 30 minitues and I am pretty slow at assembling minis, despite lots of experience.

1 minute ago, Manchu said:

Good news for those who dislike assembling minis. If Legion minis are like RW minis, they will take almost no time to assemble and will not fall apart if glued together with plastic glue (as opposed to super glue). I assembled all the Daqans out of the RW core in under 30 minitues and I am pretty slow at assembling minis, despite lots of experience.

Well that *is* good news! \o/

QS =D

3 minutes ago, Manchu said:

Good news for those who dislike assembling minis. If Legion minis are like RW minis, they will take almost no time to assemble and will not fall apart if glued together with plastic glue (as opposed to super glue). I assembled all the Daqans out of the RW core in under 30 minitues and I am pretty slow at assembling minis, despite lots of experience.

Indeed.

I expect the minis to be the same as Runewars, and those are as easy to assemble as it gets. Even has different notches for different sculpts, right/left arm etc. so you cant assemble them wrong, unless you really want to.

14 minutes ago, quantumsheep said:

There's a Rangers expansion for IA that is pretty much the Endor troops, but apart from that, here's a wall of text for you...

I think I'm disappointed because I've seen how models can be used across different games. Specifically, from my own experience, Knight Models with their Batman Miniatures game and DC Universe Miniatures Game. Despite being different games, many models from the former can be used in the latter. And KM has released a 'multiverse' line which specifically makes models playable in both games (with two sets of stat cards, one for each game).

Then there's Aliens Vs Predator, which is a tile based board game but has been developed into a war-game (AVP Unleashed) via a rulebook. Sound familiar? Models from the board game can be used in the war-game and vice versa.

I'm sure others might have some other examples.

IA does this thing where when you buy a big-box expansion, you get cards and tokens for units that don't have a figure in the box. The best example is probably Boba Fett, who was on the box of the Twin Shadows expansion, but had to be bought separately.

When you *do* buy the Boba Fett expansion, you get a duplicate set of cards (in case you skipped the Twin Shadows big box). My thinking was that was a bit wasteful, but if they can do that, they could conceivably include an extra card for a stormtrooper group in Legion, or for a character/commander, for example, and you could use your IA figures.

What's more, I actually really like the IA miniatures! I like that (apart from the huge figures like the AT-ST and the Rancor etc) they come in one piece, already on a base, no glueing etc. I have a real pet peeve with metal miniatures from the Batman Miniatures Game, for example, because even if I store them pretty well, sometimes they break (especially if I fumble and drop them!) and I find that I enjoy painting, but not putting figures together much.

If the two games were at the same scale, then you could also buy Legion miniatures to beef up your IA games (troopers with a greater variety of poses etc). You could buy stuff for Legion and IA. Buying an expansion for one of the games would automatically give you more options in the other.

Apart from financial cost (which, personally, if I get into Legion would mean I'd have to give up something else) there's the time cost too of preparing the figures (if you want to paint them that is) which would be negated if you could use already painted IA figures.

The perhaps sad fact of the matter is that there was a decision made to deliberately make the scales different. Why, I don't know. Some say that it's because Hasbro takes a cut off all IA stuff (that's a rumour though) but we've not heard anything concrete. So it seems arbitrary.

If the decision to make the Legion and IA scale the same had been there from the start, at the game's inception, there's a multitude of ways you could synergise the two games.

Yes, they're two different games, but the games are related. They're both Star Wars games that use miniature plastic figures. Much the same as the Batman game is related to the DC game, or AVP to AVP Unleashed.

I've seen some people mention that 'oh no, I can't use my X-wings in Armada'. I think everyone knows that's disingenuous as the scale is vastly different. If you were new to gaming and looked at the back of the box for Legion and IA you'd be forgiven for thinking they might be from the same game (and I can imagine a tiny 'not compatible with IA' disclaimer on the back of the Legion box).

I think they missed a trick here. But hey, it's done, I've said what I want to say, and many others have too. While disappointing I will look out for this when it's available. The fake 'Wave 1' pic got me excited because a snow speeder won't show up in IA, and that really brought home the difference in the two games. Again, like BMG/DCUMG and AVP/AVP Unleashed, a different game doesn't have to mean different models.

I'm interested in both IA and Legion. The former I'll play in a group. The latter I'll play with a friend. I can enjoy both I'm sure.

Anyway, like I said, I'll look out for it. I'm still excited, just a bit less so

QS =D

I kind of get it now.

BUT you are talking about much more than just scale being the same! You are talking about a huge effort from FFG to make sunergy between the products (publishing cards for one game with other, making conversion kits, making cards and other stuff available for seperate purchase etc.).

You are complaining that FFG didnt make the decision to go this route. I can understand, but I would never have expected them to.

The reason behind this post is that people just complain about the scale. Like if the scale were the same everything would be fine. Thats what I did'nt understand.

If they made the effort (as you describe), I see the point.

1 hour ago, Hijodecain said:

Conversion kit like Descent with the first edition. And then you can reuse as example:

Heroes:

• Chewbacca
• Han
• Leia
• R2D2
• C3PO
• Empire officers
• Empire generals
• ...

With same scale maybe you can use also monsters and huge units of IA like the following:ç

• Rancor
• AT-ST
• Repulsor tank

Regular troops:

• Stormtroopers
• Snowtroopers

Maybe not all the stuff from IA could be reused but some of it could be reused with a conversion kit.

But anyway the scale is changed, no more this option is available. Thanks FFG.

That would still require FFG to publish cards and other stuff separatly. Scale equivalence would'nt do it alone!

Good point, Heilbuth - cross compatibility between IA and Legion would require so much more than equivalent scale and just as people are complaining about the lack of compatibility now, in an alternative universe with that compatibility, people would complain about paying a "Legion tax" to get their IA products, or vice versa, unless they wanted to buy for both.

Just now, Heilbuth said:

I kind of get it now.

BUT you are talking about much more than just scale being the same! You are talking about a huge effort from FFG to make sunergy between the products (publishing cards for one game with other, making conversion kits, making cards and other stuff available for seperate purchase etc.).

You are complaining that FFG didnt make the decision to go this route. I can understand, but I would never have expected them to.

The reason behind this post is that people just complain about the scale. Like if the scale were the same everything would be fine. Thats what I did'nt understand.

If they made the effort (as you describe), I see the point.

Glad I could help, and that's fair enough

I guess that seeing what other smaller companies do to synergise their models across different games has made me question the decision *not* to do that here.

2 minutes ago, Manchu said:

Good point, Heilbuth - cross compatibility between IA and Legion would require so much more than equivalent scale and just as people are complaining about the lack of compatibility now, in an alternative universe with that compatibility, people would complain about paying a "Legion tax" to get their IA products, or vice versa, unless they wanted to buy for both.

I did mention ways around that in my post (as in, big box IA expansions have tokens/cards for the seperate small expansion packs) so I think it could be done. I like to imagine that alternate universe too where we're not even having this discussion because same scale/compatibility was factored in from the start.

But then some people would complain about that, too. Also, the sky is full of flying piranhas /o\

QS =D

People complained when Senor Fett was not in Twin Shadows. Cannot imagine how hard they would complain if he was not only NOT in that box but also you had to buy a Legion expansion to get his figure. "FFG so greedy, makes us buy unrelated product!" Or "FFG so greedy, makes different scales for related products!" Six of one, half dozen of the other. In reality, the products are unrelated so it is probably best to keep them separate.

13 minutes ago, Heilbuth said:

That would still require FFG to publish cards and other stuff separatly. Scale equivalence would'nt do it alone!

As I said in the first sentence a conversion kit is required, FFG did something "similar" (not the same because it was same game different edition in Descent). So with a minimum inversion (maybe $50) I could have had the opportunity to reuse a ton of stuff, the conversion kit could be just cards, templates, fences, not so much.

16 minutes ago, Hijodecain said:

As I said in the first sentence a conversion kit is required, FFG did something "similar" (not the same because it was same game different edition in Descent). So with a minimum inversion (maybe $50) I could have had the opportunity to reuse a ton of stuff, the conversion kit could be just cards, templates, fences, not so much.

It would still require FFG to make an effort to encourage people to NOT buy their new Legion stuff

The thing is, this style of wargame; unassembled minis, freeform movement on large tables needing a fair amount of terrain, is, to many of the people who play them, not just a game but a full hobby. It is generally accepted that you will scratch build your own terrain, come up with custom scenarios, convert you miniatures to be things they weren't originally, make up house rules, create detailed backstories for your army, sometimes invent your own units even. Obviously not everyone does these things, but many wargamers do some of them. Whether that's a good thing or not, the legacy of GW has left a fan base for this type of game that expects a significant amount of ... flexibility regarding what sorts of components a player might use during a game.

33 minutes ago, Manchu said:

Good point, Heilbuth - cross compatibility between IA and Legion would require so much more than equivalent scale and just as people are complaining about the lack of compatibility now, in an alternative universe with that compatibility, people would complain about paying a "Legion tax" to get their IA products, or vice versa, unless they wanted to buy for both.

Or... If scale were the same. People would complain along the way when they realized that the conversion kits they imagined/wanted/whished for isnt comming.

Kind of like FFG for being clear that the games are not compatible

20 minutes ago, Hijodecain said:

As I said in the first sentence a conversion kit is required, FFG did something "similar" (not the same because it was same game different edition in Descent). So with a minimum inversion (maybe $50) I could have had the opportunity to reuse a ton of stuff, the conversion kit could be just cards, templates, fences, not so much.

They also did something similar with Mansions of Madness by including a free conversion kit in the second edition that allowed you to use all your first edition base game and expansions models and tiles in the new game.

A problem with the IA-scale is, that everything must fit to max. 3x2 squares.... All larger models (Rancor, AT-ST etc.) are to small compared with the infantry models. I'm fine with the desicion. For our privat games we can use our IA-stuff. For official tournaments we still need the original cards, so we still need to buy the new Legion stuff. Yes, conversation kit may be a opinion, but you need to use the small and problematic board game scale.

21 minutes ago, The Bishop said:

For our privat games we can use our IA-stuff.

For official tournaments we still need the original cards, so we still need to buy the new Legion stuff.

Exactly

1 hour ago, Guest Aeneades said:

They also did something similar with Mansions of Madness by including a free conversion kit in the second edition that allowed you to use all your first edition base game and expansions models and tiles in the new game.

Thats a new edition of the same game. Different case entirely!

1 hour ago, Forgottenlore said:

The thing is, this style of wargame; unassembled minis, freeform movement on large tables needing a fair amount of terrain, is, to many of the people who play them, not just a game but a full hobby. It is generally accepted that you will scratch build your own terrain, come up with custom scenarios, convert you miniatures to be things they weren't originally, make up house rules, create detailed backstories for your army, sometimes invent your own units even. Obviously not everyone does these things, but many wargamers do some of them. Whether that's a good thing or not, the legacy of GW has left a fan base for this type of game that expects a significant amount of ... flexibility regarding what sorts of components a player might use during a game.

I see your point, but I guess it comes down to a lot of people expecting FFG to handle tabletop wargames the same way GW does. We can now conclude that they handle it very differently. If thats a good or a bad thing, time will tell

Why reinvent the wheel?

If a person has Imperial Assault for instance why create a situation where they have to buy a whole new set of figures? A rules release would just about do it, in the grand scheme this replaces something like Bolt Action on a gamer's playlist instead of being a 40k killer. Heck, there are already games and toys that are fully painted star wars figures in the first place.

I can only see this perhaps puling from runewars as they are both heavy on the hobby/paint side of things.

56 minutes ago, Heilbuth said:

I see your point, but I guess it comes down to a lot of people expecting FFG to handle tabletop wargames the same way GW does. We can now conclude that they handle it very differently. If thats a good or a bad thing, time will tell

Not just GW. See my post in another thread where I listed like 8 different companies that created games that were deliberately compatible with another games figures.

this is what a very modest IA collection imperial army looks like. using only the unit profiles in the base legion starter box you can get quite a few useable units from these models. once we have profiles for other units like the AT-ST I imagine folks are very near to having 400-600 points in legion figures making that first army very easy to complete with the legion starter set.

a conversion kit would be extremely useful in on boarding IA players into Legion.

1 hour ago, SoldanPrime said:

If a person has Imperial Assault for instance why create a situation where they have to buy a whole new set of figures?

To make more money Im guessing!?

Wait - are we talking about a business??