2 hours ago, Shosuro Teri said:

Now all of this is pointless if my understanding that all Sanctioned Tournaments are requiring you to play a specific Role card is wrong. You can ignore this raving madman.

Use of Role cards is indeed optional as indicated in the Rules drop from yesterday, but I can't think of a new person not to use them.

That being said, they are, technically speaking, a deck building restriction because you do not have the option to pick and choose.

Maybe it's just because I don't play competitively, but I don't see what the big deal is. From what I can see, it doesn't count towards your deck size, offers absolutely no penalties for its inclusion, and provides a decent boon if you choose to incorporate it. If you decide you don't want to use it, you can just let it sit there, not impacting your game in any way.

In 20F, if the Mantis stronghold had had the additional text "Every time you play or bow the Ring of Air, draw a card," I may have been a little disappointed at it not really fitting with my chosen deck, but I wouldn't be wailing, "Why, oh WHY?! Why did they ever put this text onto our stronghold?!?!" I'd just either use it or ignore it.

@Zesu Shadaban

Yep...totally missed that.

1 minute ago, JJ48 said:

Maybe it's just because I don't play competitively, but I don't see what the big deal is. From what I can see, it doesn't count towards your deck size, offers absolutely no penalties for its inclusion, and provides a decent boon if you choose to incorporate it. If you decide you don't want to use it, you can just let it sit there, not impacting your game in any way.

In 20F, if the Mantis stronghold had had the additional text "Every time you play or bow the Ring of Air, draw a card," I may have been a little disappointed at it not really fitting with my chosen deck, but I wouldn't be wailing, "Why, oh WHY?! Why did they ever put this text onto our stronghold?!?!" I'd just either use it or ignore it.

It only matters for Organized Play anyway. The importance is, like with the Seeker of Earth example, only one clan will have access to both Entrenched Position and Ancestral Lands in their Province spread.

If Phoenix use Seeker of the Void, they can use both their Clan Province and Shameful Display or Pilgrimage. These minor differences can have decently large impact on meta etc.

Hardcore deck builders and most of the competitive players I've talked to aren't really a fan of it.

Good thing FFG was not trying to appease hardcore deckbuilders and competitive players.

It's there to promote clan loyalty and to challenge competitive players. Do you want your clan to be Seeker of the Void to prevent Phoenix from grabbing it? If the answer is yes, then make your best deck with your clan, get good, and do something about it.

Gone are the days where AEG tried to appeal to everyone and ultimately hurt their own game. FFG is making it very clear that competitive advantages will have to be earned through good play, not bought through having special cards that are limited to a small few or directed by the whinings of small groups of players.

I love everything about it except for the fact that it wasn't like this before. When I was young and single I would have made a serious attempt at becoming Hatamoto or going to gen con and worlds, etc. With a wife and two kids it leaves me less time to play. If I have to play more casually than I would like, roles don't impact me in t he slightest. If I want to be more competitive well I suppose I'll just have to follow this sage advice from The Rock:

"Know your roll and shut your mouth"

The Role cards tell you what you can do. They do not tell you what you can't do. They are not constrictive or restrictive. They are a bonus for playing the game a certain way. Considering I suspect we aren't going to get an announcement for a tighter rotation schedule, this is desperately needed to break up the OP meta from season to season. Every little hurdle they throw at deck builders helps get people out of their comfort zones.

This thread is literally the first time I have seen anyone upset about the role cards. Everything I have read everywhere has been enthusiastically supportive. As am I.

It isn't restrictive. They have NO penalty associated with them. If you decide you don't want to do anything with your designated role, there is nothing forcing you to use the additional influence, or to include the second province.

It lets the meta change each year by tweaking everyone's deck.

It gets everyone very invested in how worlds shapes up.

I am very confused by your hate.

3 hours ago, Shosuro Teri said:

Oh the problem isn't in the announcement, its in the implementation. Ultimately, I would assume the story team has the final say when story is concerned. If a Pirate Riding Dinosaur appears in the fiction, it's because the story team allowed it and therefore the ones that are responsible.

You'd have to have paid *very* little attention to what was going on at the time to think the *Story Team* had enough of a say to prevent much of that.

Frankly, the story team had about the rawest deal of any part of L5R, having very little actual control (Brand had far more clout over events and prizes ; and Design had far more clout over cards, themes and flavor), but being the easy target to blame for angry people, and with virtually no ability to defend themselves (because they couldn't go out and blame other parts of AEG publiclly) or to ignore story prizes.

3 hours ago, Shosuro Teri said:

Also, I heard packs are going to be added every 3 months or so (I can't confirm this). I highly doubt that the same deck will be the best deck multiple years in a row when additional cards are added every 3 months (I remember Old L5R having a much slower rotation rate than this one). Also, the meta shifts accordingly not just when cards are added but when certain cards are seeing dominant use.

The L5R LCG Dynasty packs are likely going to be far smaller than the expansions release for the L5R CCG. Each pack will likely have 20 new cards made up of 3 copy sets of 2 cards for each clan plus sets of new neutral cards.

Each 18 month 6 month 6 pack cycle (120 new cards) is likely to introduce fewer new cards than any single 3 month expansion (around 160 new cards) in the ccg.

Watching the L5R live steam today....around 9:18 it was mentioned each clan will use their role - or no role. So we have the option to not use a role card at competition?

1 minute ago, Shu2jack said:

Watching the L5R live steam today....around 9:18 it was mentioned each clan will use their role - or no role. So we have the option to not use a role card at competition?

What possible reason is there to make that choice?

Edit: Unless you don't like coincidentally getting extra fate during a game?

9 minutes ago, Himoto said:

You'd have to have paid *very* little attention to what was going on at the time to think the *Story Team* had enough of a say to prevent much of that.

Frankly, the story team had about the rawest deal of any part of L5R, having very little actual control (Brand had far more clout over events and prizes ; and Design had far more clout over cards, themes and flavor), but being the easy target to blame for angry people, and with virtually no ability to defend themselves (because they couldn't go out and blame other parts of AEG publiclly) or to ignore story prizes.

In fairness to the angry people, most of them probably didn't even know that it wasn't the Story Team's fault. They just perceive that something's wrong with the story, and assume that the Story Team would be the ones responsible. It may not be correct, but it makes sense until someone explicitly explains otherwise.

2 minutes ago, Ultimatecalibur said:

The L5R LCG Dynasty packs are likely going to be far smaller than the expansions release for the L5R CCG. Each pack will likely have 20 new cards made up of 3 copy sets of 2 cards for each clan plus sets of new neutral cards.

Each 18 month 6 pack cycle (120 new cards) is likely to introduce fewer new cards than any single 3 month expansion (around 160 new cards) in the ccg.

Every three months? I thought it was monthly. I must have been misinformed.

2 minutes ago, Yogo Gohei said:

What possible reason is there to make that choice?

Edit: Unless you don't like coincidentally getting extra fate during a game?

.....

So people are unhappy that they have to take a role. Then they are unhappy because, when they are told they don't have to take the role, they don't get the benefits of a role?

3 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

Every three months? I thought it was monthly. I must have been misinformed.

Woops. Corrected.

1 minute ago, Yogo Gohei said:

What possible reason is there to make that choice?

"Hm...I don't really use this role card in my deck. Do I really want to go through all the hassle of carrying a whole, additional card with me all day long ?

They did mention that the unclaimed roles will still be used in some fashion.

Personally I only see this as a good thing. It adds great flavor to the game and gives players a clear direction towards what is at stake for them and their clan.......heck you could see players try to sabatoge a clan by gaing hatamoto status, and picking a poor choice for the clan for that year, if there is not a story prize they really care about, so they can then switch clans to try and regain hatamoto status with another clan for the following year and hope there is a prize they want more.

The potential story ramifications from such a move would have to be pretty epic and take a really good player.

It's hard mode people. Embrace it and enjoy the feeling of acomplishing something difficult instead of having it handed to you.

Given the only slight differences this gives to the game - and the fact that top tier players representing each clan will be making the selection - I expect the choices will be both fairly weak (the differences are small, and every clan gets them) and strong (most clans will get the best option for their clan)

I wonder if they'll change the actual effects of the role cards when they roles are chosen again, or if we'll only have these role cards.

And if the system just isn't working, they can always get rid of the role cards for the following tournament season.

or even replace it with another system since it's just something that sits on top of the game.

7 hours ago, Shosuro Teri said:

Being obliged to run a specific role for an entire year because someone says so feels a little constrictive. There are highly different metas in different regions, and being forced to run a role even though its not optimal to your meta is going to irritate me a lot.

A samurai is bound to by duty to the will of his superiors.

6 minutes ago, phillos said:

or even replace it with another system since it's just something that sits on top of the game.

Yeah I imagine they could easily change what the role cards are (both in how they are chosen, their mechanics, and what options are available) each year since its so few cards and for such a specialized purpose. It could even change to a 4 winds or sensei type mechanic that is simply bound by clan rather than per player.

Of course in casual games (or practice / prep for tournies) you can easily just switch out which role cards are used to experience the options, to be sure you understand which choices may be best if you gain Hatamoto, as well as understanding which combinations could be more important for other clans in case you find it stronger to hate draft it away (ex Crane wins top and takes void just to prevent Phoenix from taking it)

1 hour ago, Ishi Tonu said:

Do you want your clan to be Seeker of the Void to prevent Phoenix from grabbing it? If the answer is yes, then make your best deck with your clan, get good, and do something about it.

Nope, it's "make your best deck with your clan, get good, then fly to the United States in November", which is a significant factor. As a competitive player and hardcore deckbuilder I'm fine with the Role cards and the Hatamoto picking the ones for the Clan. There's are worse options to pick, but I don't believe that are any straight out bad ones and as more Dynasty packs are printed the weakest options will hopefully get some help. That doesn't change the fact that only a small proportion of the playerbase will even have the opportunity to have a say in the decision, and it's close enough to Gencon to make a second trip to the States financially nonviable for most people crazy enough to go to another continent to play L5R.

@Evilgm I totally understand your concern with the Hatamoto system. I truly hope that any player who becomes Hatamoto engages in social media with their clan loyalists to ensure that all of the clan players learn the best strategies to get the most out of their clan, but also that the decisions like Role cards or story rewards are well vetted by those who enthusiastically share the clan loyalty.

I'm in USA and wish I could jump over for Gencon this year... but sadly I cannot. I can only hope that whoever becomes Scorpion Hatamoto (b/c I'm a total Scorp loyalist 110%) is engaged with the community so that I can at least give feedback and share in some of the events even if only vicariously...

I don't like the system, because it makes it possible for trolls to gimp their clans. And the design team can't even balance against it, because it easily could lead to an unbalanced metagame the next year.

Just now, Ignithas said:

I don't like the system, because it makes it possible for trolls to gimp their clans. And the design team can't even balance against it, because it easily could lead to an unbalanced metagame the next year.

Oh no! Like if the Crab clan chose keeper of air and then got fate anytime they won defense against an air conflict? Oh and then could include more ally cards?

And I bet the design team never considered designing more province cards with other elements to keep things balanced.

Woe is us for these unpredictable and unforeseeable outcomes!

*this was all sarcasm if you didn't notice*