3 minutes ago, subtrendy2 said:I wonder- I haven't crunched the numbers yet, but with "Assault", it seems like the DP could maybe even beat the ST in a head-to-head fight.
Interesting. The AT-ST hit hard though, especially agaisnt a single black die (the built in block can't hurt the AT-DP). I can see the ST win a few fight but I agree that Assault may turn the tide in favor of the DP in most cases
23 minutes ago, subtrendy2 said:I wonder- I haven't crunched the numbers yet, but with "Assault", it seems like the DP could maybe even beat the ST in a head-to-head fight.
You could get into a hilarious position where the DP backs the ST into a corner and then the ST cannot pass him due to spaces or shoot him due to Awkward.
29 minutes ago, Smashotron said:You could get into a hilarious position where the DP backs the ST into a corner and then the ST cannot pass him due to spaces or shoot him due to Awkward.
Right, I was actually thinking about that yesterday. That'd be great.
It'd be hard for the DP to outmaneuver the ST with its low speed, though.
3 minutes ago, subtrendy2 said:It'd be hard for the DP to outmaneuver the ST with its low speed, though.
32 minutes ago, Smashotron said:You could get into a hilarious position where the DP backs the ST into a corner and then the ST cannot pass him due to spaces or shoot him due to Awkward.
Just one more of the fixes the AT-ST needs, "Awkward - You cannot attack adjacent spaces". This would allow you to still attack the AT-DP since massive figures don't block line of sight.
2 minutes ago, Smashotron said:
Haha, seems like an interesting list
The best part will be when you run out of AT-DPs and you've just got a pile of panicked Officers near your terminal and deployment zone.
Just now, Smashotron said:The best part will be when you run out of AT-DPs and you've just got a pile of panicked Officers near your terminal and deployment zone.
On the bright side, that should take a while between 32 combined health and above-average defense. And if I were running that list, I'd definitely find room for Repair and Emergency Aid in my command deck.
17 minutes ago, thestag said:Just one more of the fixes the AT-ST needs, "Awkward - You cannot attack adjacent spaces". This would allow you to still attack the AT-DP since massive figures don't block line of sight.
Massive figures block line of sight. You meant that figures do not block line of sight to and from a massive figure.
12 hours ago, ManateeX said:In one of the older threads, someone ( @cnemmick ?) had a good idea to fix the existing vehicles. I don't remember what the wording on the card was, but the key was that it was an attachment that could only be placed on a vehicle of cost 10 or higher. That way you can address the fact that the three existing vehicles are unplayable without having to worry about designing around that card in every future expansion.
/me appears from a puff of blue smoke. O HAI SOMEBODY WANNA TALK ABOUT SKIRMISH UPGRADES?
I forget who it was, but somebody else on the forum suggested that there should be just one Skirmish Upgrade (not attachment) card to fix all the Massive imperial vehicles. That was my inspiration for this current fix in my skirmish overprice document :
QuoteUnique Elite Skirmish Upgrade Card: Imperial Retrofitting
Cost: 0
Apply the following to each AT-ST, SCM-2 and General Weiss figures in your army:
Reduce the deployment cost for each AT-ST & General Weiss by 3, SCM-2 Repulsor Tank by 2.
Secondary Cannons: Once during your activation, you may perform an attack using one blue and one red die without spending an action.
You gain "SURGE: Flatten - Choose up to two adjacent hostile figures. Each figure suffers 1 DMG."
My son and I have done some testing w/ the AT-ST and General Weiss using this upgrade. What we've found is that double-black defense still doesn't provide enough lasting power versus the new damage output curve. With the AT-ST, adding a natural +1 BLOCK felt good, but I'm afraid it might be overpowered against non- Hunter figures.
Secondary Cannons are *exactly* what the AT-ST & Weiss need offensively. We never found the Flatten ability useful since we typically had one or more figures supporting the AT-ST and *could* attack figures adjacent to the walkers. Also, with the Secondary Cannons, it wasn't a big deal to move away from adjacent figures and spend the free attack against them.
In my next iteration of the document, I'm thinking about making the following changes:
QuoteUnique Elite Skirmish Upgrade Card: Imperial Retrofitting
Cost: 0
Apply the following to each AT-ST, SCM-2 and General Weiss figures in your army:
Reduce the deployment cost for each AT-ST & General Weiss by 3, SCM-2 Repulsor Tank by 1.
Increase Health +3 for each AT-ST & General Weiss. Increase Health +2 for each SCM-2 Repulsor Tank.
Secondary Cannons: Once during your activation, you may perform an attack using one blue and one red die without spending an action.
I need to test Secondary Cannons + Health Increase w/ the Repulsor Tank. I'm fearful that it being able to do 3 attacks a round (Focus Fire + Secondary Cannons) w/ the Health Increase makes it too powerful. (I also changed the reduced deployment cost of the tank since the AT-DP is cost 9.)
If any of y'all would like to try it out and leave your thoughts, please do so.
Oh, about the AT-DP: Giving it Assault and Speed 3 means you still have to commit Officers to moving it into position if you want to be on the attack in skirmish -- which is what you have to do with Massive Vehicles nowadays. An AT-DP plus two rImpOfficers or one eImpOfficer (total cost: 13 or 14) isn't that huge chunk of your Deployment point budget for two Red-Blue-Yellow attacks that have a natural +1 DMG and a potential surge for Pierce 2 and/or +1 DMG.
If you run the AT-DP attack numbers w/ Charge Generators through the IA Calculator, you can see that getting at least 5 DMG per attack is highly likely (70% vs. Black Die, 60% vs White Die) and at least 6 DMG are pretty good odds (40% vs. Black Die, 36% vs. White Die). If you can get your AT-DP in position, it can one-shot eWeequays. So to get the full value from your AT-DP, you want it attacking twice per turn when it starts attacking.
1 hour ago, a1bert said:Massive figures block line of sight. You meant that figures do not block line of sight to and from a massive figure.
Yes... that's what I meant.
Thanks for the correction
@a1bert
It was early when I put that in there, and I hadn't even finished my first cup of coffee. What I meant to say was that if the AT-ST was limited to just not shooting adjacent spaces, then it could hit the AT-PT since it's a massive figure (since we can infer that it is a 2x3 base).
1 hour ago, cnemmick said:I forget who it was, but somebody else on the forum suggested that there should be just one Skirmish Upgrade (not attachment) card to fix all the Massive imperial vehicles.
"/me appears from a puff of blue smoke."
My idea was just to have an upgrade card similar to Beast tamer. It could grant assault to all massive vehicles and allow a single vehicle to perform a move. I don't think that would cause issues with the AT-DP. They already have assault, and I don't think a little extra movement for a 1 cost card would be a problem.
Edited by Fightwookies10 hours ago, subtrendy2 said:I wonder- I haven't crunched the numbers yet, but with "Assault", it seems like the DP could maybe even beat the ST in a head-to-head fight.
AT-ST does a maximum of 7 damage to the DP in one attack. By that alone, it would take it at least 3 activations to destroy the AT-DP.
The AT-DP can do a maximum of 8 damage to the ST in one attack, and it would take it at least 1 activation to destroy the AT-ST.
Now, those are the maximum's obviously, so quite unlikely.
I think where the ST would actually excel is due to it's movement.
IF it goes first, and attacks at it's minimum range (5), then it could move 4. Now the DP has to risk a Range 9 shot or spend one of it's actions moving. At Range 9 The DP's chances of doing damage really drop significantly.
A straight up fight between the ST and DP will really come down to who attacks first, what ranges are we talking about and how swingy are the black dice for the ST?
13 hours ago, Majushi said:AT-ST does a maximum of 7 damage to the DP in one attack. By that alone, it would take it at least 3 activations to destroy the AT-DP.
The AT-DP can do a maximum of 8 damage to the ST in one attack, and it would take it at least 1 activation to destroy the AT-ST.
Now, those are the maximum's obviously, so quite unlikely.
I think where the ST would actually excel is due to it's movement.
IF it goes first, and attacks at it's minimum range (5), then it could move 4. Now the DP has to risk a Range 9 shot or spend one of it's actions moving. At Range 9 The DP's chances of doing damage really drop significantly.
A straight up fight between the ST and DP will really come down to who attacks first, what ranges are we talking about and how swingy are the black dice for the ST?
Interesting!
I guess that while the ST doesn't have Assault, it can at least pretty reliably use one action per activation for movement, which is pretty much a built in counter to the DP's movement issues. But like you said, it definitely depends on the environment they're fighting in, as well as turn order.
Totally aside, but I'm very excited for this even just for board presence. I have a pretty solid plan next mission in our campaign to get the AT-ST, Weiss, tank, and rancor all out at the same time (actually not nearly as difficult as it sounds) and this DP would add to the chaos of that for pretty cheap. Love a crazy looking board.
14 hours ago, Majushi said:AT-ST does a maximum of 7 damage to the DP in one attack. By that alone, it would take it at least 3 activations to destroy the AT-DP.
The AT-DP can do a maximum of 8 damage to the ST in one attack, and it would take it at least 1 activation to destroy the AT-ST.
Now, those are the maximum's obviously, so quite unlikely.
I think where the ST would actually excel is due to it's movement.
IF it goes first, and attacks at it's minimum range (5), then it could move 4. Now the DP has to risk a Range 9 shot or spend one of it's actions moving. At Range 9 The DP's chances of doing damage really drop significantly.
A straight up fight between the ST and DP will really come down to who attacks first, what ranges are we talking about and how swingy are the black dice for the ST?
... but the fact that it's even a question for a 14-point figure vs. a 9-point figure shows you how bad the AT-ST is
20 minutes ago, Stompburger said:... but the fact that it's even a question for a 14-point figure vs. a 9-point figure shows you how bad the AT-ST is
Absolutely. Plus, even though the implication was there, consider this-
Max damage form ST to DP in one activation- 7.
Max damage from DP to ST in one activation- 16.
Even as swingy as the black die are, the damage between these two is horribly one-sided.
Makes me want to revist
my AT-ST list
with the AT-DP now.
If you're spamming officers with it, you ought to put the Generals Ranks in there too.
1 hour ago, RogueLieutenant said:If you're spamming officers with it, you ought to put the Generals Ranks in there too.
Will that upgrade work with regular Officers or only the full move from elite Officers?
On 7/26/2017 at 7:12 PM, FrogTrigger said:Chewie is running from the AT-DP in the art, chewie fix confirmed.
Sorry to be "that guy" but I think he's wearing a shoulder pauldron, which he didn't even wear in the prequels during wartime. I'm thinking it's another wookie.
On 7/26/2017 at 2:02 PM, subtrendy2 said:Could be something that removes Awkward or adds Assault. Neither would benefit the hovertank or DP.
I think that they would have to fix both. The issue with Awkward is that it really hinders having Assault (even if they fixed it). If the rebels move adjacent then you have to move before you can shoot anyways. I would like to leave awkward and see them add "trample" that allows you to do significant damage by stepping on them, then let's see if they get so close:) Or they could leave awkward and just give the AT-ST two movement points at the start of it's turn - perhaps: Chickenwalk : "if adjacent to one or more hostile figures at the start of your turn" gain 2 movement points.
Edited by VadersMarchKazoo15 minutes ago, VadersMarchKazoo said:Sorry to be "that guy" but I think he's wearing a shoulder pauldron, which he didn't even wear in the prequels during wartime. I'm thinking it's another wookie.
He just bought it that morning at the Pauldrons Emporium but then the AT-DP blew it off.
46 minutes ago, Smashotron said:Will that upgrade work with regular Officers or only the full move from elite Officers?
Hmm. It says "perform a move" so that wouldn't count from the regular officers...
58 minutes ago, VadersMarchKazoo said:I would like to leave awkward and see them add "trample" that allows you to do significant damage by stepping on them, then let's see if they get so close:) Or they could leave awkward and just give the AT-ST two movement points at the start of it's turn - perhaps: Chickenwalk : "if adjacent to one or more hostile figures at the start of your turn" gain 2 movement points.
Now that brings an interesting wrench into the mix. I like it!
Yeah. You'd still want to run up to it, because being trampled might not be as bad as just getting shot by it, but certainly throws a twist in there.
1 hour ago, RogueLieutenant said:
Hmm. It says "perform a move" so that wouldn't count from the regular officers...
Yeah I believe at the time of release, this might have applied to both versions of the Imperial Officer but the FAQ to regular Officers changed that. I don't know if I would pay 2pts if it only works with elite Officers, but then again, maybe elite Officers and Sorin are the way to go if you want to field the AT-DP. Assault plus the potential for three more attacks with +1 dmg each could be good. A Speed 5 move from an elite Officer wouldn't be terrible.
