I have a feeling that the AT-DP will see more play due to the fact that it is cheaper and, for the most part, is identical to the AT-ST but at a better price and possibly with better abilities.

I think we'll see the AT-DP and Sorin both get a bit more play!

For those of you who haven't memorized the new card already.

holy crap. looking at them side by side the difference is astonishing.

I wonder how big of a setback having one less speed and one less black die will make...

2 minutes ago, RogueLieutenant said:

I wonder how big of a setback having one less speed and one less black die will make...

Yeah but every time I roll two black dice, I end up rolling a 1 on them anyway

I guess we could look at categories:

Cost: AT-ST is nearly 50% more expensive than the DP. That's a big advantage to DP. Advantage DP

Built in abilities- Identical, other than DP getting +1 Block. Advantage DP.'

Surge Abilities- Tough to argue whether Blast 2 or +1 Damage are better. I like Blast a lot, and when you do get Blast 2, it'll be brutal. Slight Advantage (Maybe) ST

Other Abilities: Charge Generators will often give you as much extra dmg as rerolling a single die, and more reliably. "Assault " is invaluable. Not having "Awkward is good. Landslide DP

Health: Obviously 16 is bigger than 15. Advantage DP

Speed: 3 is obviously smaller than 4, and it's a pretty bad speed. However, I think that as long as these things manage line of sight, either should be able to hit their target pretty reliably with +3 ac and a blue die. Advantage ST

Defense: Obviously 2 is bigger than 1. Black dice can be swingy, though, and remember- DP is guaranteed +1 block already. Advantage ST .

Attack: Generally, I'd take a Red over Yellow, particularly when my surge abilities aren't amazing. Advantage ST . But remember, ST doesn't have "Assault",

Honestly, I think the DP severely outclasses the ST- generally considering its price, but sometimes even in spite of it . Glad vehicles are getting more love, but I think this shows how badly the ST needs a fix.

edit: Also, forgot size. I believe they're both the same size anyway, though, and both are Massive.

I was thinking they are relatively comparable but that Assault really makes all the difference. I really like the situational re-roll and damage from Charge Generator. I can see a lot more AT-DPs on the field than any AT-STs. I wish there would also be a fix to give the AT-ST something extra; either a slight point-reduction or Assault as well.

I will be surprised if there isn't at least some new vehicle focused cards for skirmish that don't help out the AT-ST and Hovertank.

Though whatever helps them would presumably make the AT-DP even better.

Unless it's just a straight up Iggy/Vader style fix which I don't think we'll get.

6 minutes ago, RogueLieutenant said:

I will be surprised if there isn't at least some new vehicle focused cards for skirmish that don't help out the AT-ST and Hovertank.

Though whatever helps them would presumably make the AT-DP even better.

Unless it's just a straight up Iggy/Vader style fix which I don't think we'll get.

Could be something that removes Awkward or adds Assault. Neither would benefit the hovertank or DP.

1 minute ago, subtrendy2 said:

Could be something that removes Awkward or adds Assault. Neither would benefit the hovertank or DP.

Vechicle Only

Adulthood : You lose Awkward . Gain Confidence .

..

I just finished painting all my figures for IA and the final two were AT-ST and Weiss. Now I can throw them in the garbage because AT-DP.

3 minutes ago, robertpolson said:

Cna someone explain Clawdite shapeshifters ?

Nope ?. We don't know what Forms are yet.

-ryanjamal

6 minutes ago, RogueLieutenant said:

Vechicle Only

Adulthood : You lose Awkward . Gain Confidence .

I'm glad you didn't add "Assault" to that one. That would have been awkward.

1 hour ago, ryanjamal said:

Nope ?. We don't know what Forms are yet.

-ryanjamal

Indeed. We can speculate, certainly. Maybe the different Forms can give them different traits, like 'Leader' or 'Trooper' to represent the Clawdite role-playing different personas?

Maybe the different forms give boosts to different stats or grant certain actions?

There's a wealth of possibilities here

I think the new chicken walker is a great upgrade compared to the old one and I'll definitely be giving it a go. I think though that I have 2 concerns:

1) This is being introduced right with new Darth... so all 3 sides will have access to guys who love to get up close and unleash ****... that min range of 5 is going to be a pain in the bum.

2) Also being a large model - I'm not convinced yet that FFG playtesters fully appreciate how much more vulnerable this makes you. I know I didn't realise it until I'd played a bunch of games with the Rancor and it was surprisingly getting chewed up by stormtroopers... Just the fact that you literally can't hide anywhere is so huge. IG88 by comparison has similar defence characteristics but between speed and size he's going to last much longer overall. Thus I question whether I will end up thinking his 9 point value is actually good compared to the 12-13 points we are paying for the Lukes, IGs and Darths of the world.

Cards of course make a difference but I can't see much coming out for him that is going to be better than what we have at least for Luke and IG. Either way its a step in the right direction, certainly the most competitive vehicle we have seen (unless you count Jet troopers...) And I could imagine some nice synergies going on too.

2 hours ago, Smashotron said:

I was thinking they are relatively comparable but that Assault really makes all the difference. I really like the situational re-roll and damage from Charge Generator. I can see a lot more AT-DPs on the field than any AT-STs. I wish there would also be a fix to give the AT-ST something extra; either a slight point-reduction or Assault as well.

To be fair though, 1 AT-DP would be a lot more than the number of AT-STs I currently see... maybe your meta is different!

2 hours ago, subtrendy2 said:

I'm glad you didn't add "Assault" to that one. That would have been awkward.

Yeah, the Jet Troopers don't need more beefing up...

4 hours ago, RogueLieutenant said:

For those of you who haven't memorized the new card already.

The AT-ST looks bad next to the new vehicle, but the tank looks even worse:

They're already pretty similar, only the tank's limitation that you have to attack the same figure twice and the huge drop in health are pretty significant. I suppose it's got a few minor advantages in the speed and the surges, and the ability to choose an evade instead of a block is an upgrade in some situations, but by and large it's not even close (and for 1 point more, besides).

In one of the older threads, someone ( @cnemmick ?) had a good idea to fix the existing vehicles. I don't remember what the wording on the card was, but the key was that it was an attachment that could only be placed on a vehicle of cost 10 or higher. That way you can address the fact that the three existing vehicles are unplayable without having to worry about designing around that card in every future expansion.

Chewie is running from the AT-DP in the art, chewie fix confirmed.

2 hours ago, ManateeX said:

In one of the older threads, someone ( @cnemmick ?) had a good idea to fix the existing vehicles. I don't remember what the wording on the card was, but the key was that it was an attachment that could only be placed on a vehicle of cost 10 or higher. That way you can address the fact that the three existing vehicles are unplayable without having to worry about designing around that card in every future expansion.

They need to stop "fixing" things without fixing them in campaign as well. IG-88 is still complete trash in campaign, there is no reason they can't do a simple cost fix on them to make them playable as optional units as that won't "break" them when they get played for free as part of a mission.

3 hours ago, FrogTrigger said:

Chewie is running from the AT-DP in the art, chewie fix confirmed.

Could the chewie fix be him joyriding in an AT-DP a la Endor?

I think the Wookiee depicted might be Drokkatta or Gaarkhan tho'...

51 minutes ago, Union said:

They need to stop "fixing" things without fixing them in campaign as well. IG-88 is still complete trash in campaign, there is no reason they can't do a simple cost fix on them to make them playable as optional units as that won't "break" them when they get played for free as part of a mission.

Since campaign is played non-competitively, you could always house-rule in the fix cards (on agreement with the other players, of course). I get that it's not the same as an official fix, but it's something to try out

I think AT-DP would be better than the AS-ST if they both cost the same ...

I think that AT-DP will see a lot of use at my house.

I wonder- I haven't crunched the numbers yet, but with "Assault", it seems like the DP could maybe even beat the ST in a head-to-head fight.