20 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

Honestly, in the US meta, from what I can gather, PS9 was so sparsely populated that you could probably get away with no bid.

I think VI Nym is pushing the 9s that could be competitive with other upgrades to take VI themselves (Poe/QD/Vader) leaving 9s a bit vacant except for Kylo.

51 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

Wow, if this is the case, I'm very interested to understand what the strategy was against PS9s that move after him. I get that PS10/11 is generally less maneuverable, so you can use your extra maneuverability to deal with it, but there had to be opposing Kylos with a bigger bid in the field, right?

Not so much. There were only three Kylo's in the field -- Morgan, myself and one other -- and we all had the same list. I can't speak for Morgan, but there were so few people testing it locally (the third Kylo was a legitimate surprise) that I decided teching for an unlikely mirror match wasn't worth making other matchups worse. Will be something to think about now that he's going to inevitably get more popular, but even then I think you take points away from the other two ships first. Everything on that Silencer is hugely important.

Besides, Kylo doesn't mind moving second as much as some other aces. He can pull moves that most others simply can't keep up with, has the stat line to take a hit (or two if the dice favour), and once he does get tagged Damaged Cockpit comes into play.

Just now, DR4CO said:

Besides, Kylo doesn't mind moving second as much as some other aces. He can pull moves that most others simply can't keep up with, has the stat line to take a hit (or two if the dice favour), and once he does get tagged Damaged Cockpit comes into play.

I understand this part, I'm just surprised there weren't more Kylos, I guess. I tend to rate the Silencer in almost all its forms higher than most do, I suppose.

11 hours ago, DR4CO said:

Not so much. There were only three Kylo's in the field -- Morgan, myself and one other -- and we all had the same list. I can't speak for Morgan, but there were so few people testing it locally (the third Kylo was a legitimate surprise) that I decided teching for an unlikely mirror match wasn't worth making other matchups worse. Will be something to think about now that he's going to inevitably get more popular, but even then I think you take points away from the other two ships first. Everything on that Silencer is hugely important.

Besides, Kylo doesn't mind moving second as much as some other aces. He can pull moves that most others simply can't keep up with, has the stat line to take a hit (or two if the dice favour), and once he does get tagged Damaged Cockpit comes into play.

Kylo Silencer is so xtreme they are including an X-Wing Event at X-Games Sydney this year.

Everytime I use the Silencer I hear Sal Masekela in the background going crazy while Kylo does stuff like this:

People really should use him more. Boost + Barrel Roll with a Focus Token and 1 Reroll is so much fun.

Just now, Boom Owl said:

People really should use him more. Boost + Barrel Roll with a Focus Token and 1 Reroll is so much fun.

Kylo is the most fun I've had with x-wing since May worlds last year.

56 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

Kylo is the most fun I've had with x-wing since May worlds last year.

Every version of the Silencer I've played is in the 95th percentile of fun for me in this game. It's like they made this ship just for me.

I agree

5 hours ago, Biophysical said:

Every version of the Silencer I've played is in the 95th percentile of fun for me in this game. It's like they made this ship just for me.

So much fun that sometimes you decide to park on a rock for a turn! Flying AS Kylo has made me realize that it's been too long since I've flown Whisper.

1 hour ago, defkhan1 said:

So much fun that sometimes you decide to park on a rock for a turn! Flying AS Kylo has made me realize that it's been too long since I've flown Whisper.

Now seems like the right time to ask........

Lets assume both were evenly balanced competitively.

Based on feel alone what are you?

Team Whisper or Team Kylo

9 hours ago, AlexW said:

He ran a 99 point list, I think. Title seemed key to helping Kylo avoid some damage for a round.

8 hours ago, Biophysical said:

Wow, if this is the case, I'm very interested to understand what the strategy was against PS9s that move after him. I get that PS10/11 is generally less maneuverable, so you can use your extra maneuverability to deal with it, but there had to be opposing Kylos with a bigger bid in the field, right?

8 hours ago, DR4CO said:

Not so much. There were only three Kylo's in the field -- Morgan, myself and one other -- and we all had the same list. I can't speak for Morgan, but there were so few people testing it locally (the third Kylo was a legitimate surprise) that I decided teching for an unlikely mirror match wasn't worth making other matchups worse. Will be something to think about now that he's going to inevitably get more popular, but even then I think you take points away from the other two ships first. Everything on that Silencer is hugely important.

Besides, Kylo doesn't mind moving second as much as some other aces. He can pull moves that most others simply can't keep up with, has the stat line to take a hit (or two if the dice favour), and once he does get tagged Damaged Cockpit comes into play.

I thought about tweaking for the mirror but I had spent my time in targeted practice with the squad and was loath to change anything without getting the sufficient reps in. My general thinking is that Kylo has the ability to outfly the 9's with a bid and 10-11's. This is where his pilot ability actually shines as he can generally take a hit and tag them back to either PS0 or Blinded.

Throughout the weekend, out of the 9 games, I played against PS9+:

97pt Fenn
100pt Dengar x 2
Mirror where I lost the initiate roll
Double PS10+Bumper

In each case Kylo was able to trigger his Dark Side ability to either PS0 or Blind them which was enough to give the squad a chance at winning.

So, I wanted to try flying Miranda/Nym before this weekend's regional prep (we can't go, so we might as well help others prep). My son was on board, so out come his 3 Defenders, he decided to try Ryad and Vess instead of just Glaives.

The Glaive never got to shoot and he never even got into Miranda's hull. It was a 30 minute massacre. He even listened and did not fly in formation, making the bombs less effective.

Feels bad is all we can say for that list from a casual standpoint, but it sure works for tournaments.

We'll need to test more if we want him not to hate nationals, but he far preferred facing gunboats!

Kylo was a meh for me at Regionals... I saw two... in the 9-20 table area... they both got gunned down when they got smacked with Ordance from my GUNs and Quickdraw... 2 wins for me. All that repositioning is neat but unless you've left an arc or closed range, it doesn't do much. My opponents would set up nice shots... but then Kylo just doesn't hit that hard if he's decided to use actions to get into some complex position... Gunboats and SFs can just shrug it off and then return fire... and they hit a lot harder than Kylo. I watched Dion's game against Jeremy Trad... Dion flew that Silencer all over the place and well... still seemed anemic compared to almost everything else on the table.

I will say... I might be coming back around to Nus with HLCs... ordnance was nice and all... but to be able to bring yourself back around and not need reloads or TLs (or deadeye or other lock mitigation) might come out ahead in the end... I dunno... NU HLC LRS LB is the same cost as Deadeye Rhos with Extra Munitions, Chips, and Harpoons... argh

For as to why Harpoons have some people crying for a nerf- Harpoons are a Chemotherapy that is needed to cure the cancer that is "Fat" point tanks, such as Wookiees, Nym, Miranda, Asajj, Regenerators, etc. It keeps the game fun and alive throufh those mechanics.

The problem is, chemo isn't fun to go through on its own. If your local meta was full of innocents who didn't have cancer, giving them chemo might make them suffer.

Ideally, we wouldn't need the chemo. Unfortunately, the game has Cancer.

2 hours ago, MorganR said:

I thought about tweaking for the mirror but I had spent my time in targeted practice with the squad and was loath to change anything without getting the sufficient reps in. My general thinking is that Kylo has the ability to outfly the 9's with a bid and 10-11's. This is where his pilot ability actually shines as he can generally take a hit and tag them back to either PS0 or Blinded.

Throughout the weekend, out of the 9 games, I played against PS9+:

97pt Fenn
100pt Dengar x 2
Mirror where I lost the initiate roll
Double PS10+Bumper

In each case Kylo was able to trigger his Dark Side ability to either PS0 or Blind them which was enough to give the squad a chance at winning.

In the mirror where you lost the initiative, did you feel like you were at a serious disadvantage or a minor disadvantage? ISYTDS can certainly even things out, but that does work both ways. The others I see a definite path to victory. I'm just trying to see how a PTL/AS Kylo mirror doesn't start with a major disadvantage.

I mean, it's fine if it does, you don't design squads for just the mirror.

3 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

In the mirror where you lost the initiative, did you feel like you were at a serious disadvantage or a minor disadvantage? ISYTDS can certainly even things out, but that does work both ways. The others I see a definite path to victory. I'm just trying to see how a PTL/AS Kylo mirror doesn't start with a major disadvantage.

I mean, it's fine if it does, you don't design squads for just the mirror.

Miranda and Nym squads better start planning for the mirror...

1 minute ago, Tlfj200 said:

Miranda and Nym squads better start planning for the mirror...

Ah ha! I see your miranda is worth more!

I concede in honorable defeat.

2 hours ago, MorganR said:

I thought about tweaking for the mirror but I had spent my time in targeted practice with the squad and was loath to change anything without getting the sufficient reps in. My general thinking is that Kylo has the ability to outfly the 9's with a bid and 10-11's. This is where his pilot ability actually shines as he can generally take a hit and tag them back to either PS0 or Blinded.

Throughout the weekend, out of the 9 games, I played against PS9+:

97pt Fenn
100pt Dengar x 2
Mirror where I lost the initiate roll
Double PS10+Bumper

In each case Kylo was able to trigger his Dark Side ability to either PS0 or Blind them which was enough to give the squad a chance at winning.

18 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

In the mirror where you lost the initiative, did you feel like you were at a serious disadvantage or a minor disadvantage? ISYTDS can certainly even things out, but that does work both ways. The others I see a definite path to victory. I'm just trying to see how a PTL/AS Kylo mirror doesn't start with a major disadvantage.

I mean, it's fine if it does, you don't design squads for just the mirror.

Initially both Ben and I thought the roll would determine the winner with little recourse but after having played it - It was quite achievable thanks to ISYTDS and Harpoons overloading 3 greens.

Depending on the skill of your opponent would determine the level of disadvantage yet I would say this about Kylo mirrors - Because Kylo is not as big a hitter as Fenn or a Dengar types - You can get away with a couple of exchanges and still live.

Full context of the game - Neither Ben or I were really invested in who won as we were both 5-0 into last round of Swiss. We played more of a casual game night match with high risk moves on both sides and more than a bit of laughter.

Once I lost the roll though I flew very aggressively and basically jousted his Boats with my Kylo. The reasoning was two-fold.
1: It gave me the Harpoon advantage where he fired 1 for no effective result against my Kylo and I had 2 in the tank to hunt his Boats or his Kylo if I could trap him.
2: It allowed ISYTDS to get on the board so I could draw his Kylo into shooting mine for PS0.

Both of the above was achieved and due to Ben focusing on my Kylo I was able to trigger the PS0 on his. It was risky as I was down to 2 Hull but now I had 2 Boats with Harpoons in the tank and my Kylo all moving after his Kylo.

Once I was in that position the game was mine to lose. And thats exactly what I did.

Instead of playing the long game to arc dodge I wanted to end it quickly (back to the context of the game) and took a R1 in arc exchange with his Kylo. Both of ours were on 2 Hull and I was shooting at 9 with TL+Focus so I thought my chances of PS killing him were reasonable. He lived - I died (but took his Kylo down with my Harpoon condition!). Was an enjoyable joust finish for both of us and he was a fitting player to top Swiss 6-0 (and thus inheriting the Swiss winning curse...).

Like any mirror where you lose the initiative - Smart and aggressive play can get you back in it because you have the luxury of dictating the board state with your blocks and traps.

53 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

Miranda and Nym squads better start planning for the mirror...

Sad reacts only

21 minutes ago, MorganR said:

Initially both Ben and I thought the roll would determine the winner with little recourse but after having played it - It was quite achievable thanks to ISYTDS and Harpoons overloading 3 greens.

Depending on the skill of your opponent would determine the level of disadvantage yet I would say this about Kylo mirrors - Because Kylo is not as big a hitter as Fenn or a Dengar types - You can get away with a couple of exchanges and still live.

Full context of the game - Neither Ben or I were really invested in who won as we were both 5-0 into last round of Swiss. We played more of a casual game night match with high risk moves on both sides and more than a bit of laughter.

Once I lost the roll though I flew very aggressively and basically jousted his Boats with my Kylo. The reasoning was two-fold.
1: It gave me the Harpoon advantage where he fired 1 for no effective result against my Kylo and I had 2 in the tank to hunt his Boats or his Kylo if I could trap him.
2: It allowed ISYTDS to get on the board so I could draw his Kylo into shooting mine for PS0.

Both of the above was achieved and due to Ben focusing on my Kylo I was able to trigger the PS0 on his. It was risky as I was down to 2 Hull but now I had 2 Boats with Harpoons in the tank and my Kylo all moving after his Kylo.

Once I was in that position the game was mine to lose. And thats exactly what I did.

Instead of playing the long game to arc dodge I wanted to end it quickly (back to the context of the game) and took a R1 in arc exchange with his Kylo. Both of ours were on 2 Hull and I was shooting at 9 with TL+Focus so I thought my chances of PS killing him were reasonable. He lived - I died (but took his Kylo down with my Harpoon condition!). Was an enjoyable joust finish for both of us and he was a fitting player to top Swiss 6-0 (and thus inheriting the Swiss winning curse...).

Like any mirror where you lose the initiative - Smart and aggressive play can get you back in it because you have the luxury of dictating the board state with your blocks and traps.

Thanks, that's very helpful and interesting.

55 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

Miranda and Nym squads better start planning for the mirror...

Esege and sixxa!

56 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

Miranda and Nym squads better start planning for the mirror...

Can they just use all the planning they did 2 months ago?

Tried K2 today.

I'm pretty happy with it I've got to say.

It hasn' been since commonwealth that I've tried someone else' list and felt this comfortable with it.

Also, I'm bad at this game ...i think.yeah.pretty sure I'm in the low side of average skill wise.im not sure what that means other then, I guess I prefer playing dodgy stuff with arcs.

4 hours ago, Tlfj200 said:

Miranda and Nym squads better start planning for the mirror...

3 hours ago, Chumbalaya said:

Sad reacts only

May they be locked in those mirrors forever.

9 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

Now seems like the right time to ask........

Lets assume both were evenly balanced competitively.

Based on feel alone what are you?

Team Whisper or Team Kylo

Whisper for sure. I'm a more aggressive than defensive player.

On 1/8/2018 at 2:04 PM, catachanninja said:

Oh man i am excited, ima debate the **** out yall once I'm off work, cuz spoiler, you're wrong

Still waiting...