Carolina Krayts is the best X-Wing podcast

By SaltMaster 5000, in X-Wing

37 minutes ago, Do I need a Username said:

Several thoughts: 1: Is wedge back?

2: Most people don't tend to think about upgrade card and modification math. In other words, a Three die focus shot vs. a four die unmodded shot. this comes up all the time with expose, and also with boost. This is also probably what contributes to the idea of "Just joust it" Happens with gunboats, and also lots of secondary weapon stuff.

3: Should I just take as many red dice as possible for final salvo? Is that the best strategy?

1. No. In and of himself, Wedge still isn't really quite where he needs to be. If you assume that Flight Assist Astromech and Integrated Astromech are mandatory (and they basically are) you can either put an offensive action economy EPT on him (Expertise/Predator) etc., or you can put VI on him. With a dice mod EPT and his ability he hits super hard, but he needs to be higher PS to PS kill some of the meta monsters at higher PS (Poe, QD, Nym etc.). With VI, he can get PS kills, but he doesn't have the dice mods to really take advantage of his pilot ability. And, in all cases, without Regen, and with just two green dice and no Autothrusters, he's vulnerable to turrets and massed ordnance/Wookiees (maybe he can dodge an arc or two, but someone's going to catch him before too long).

Wedge is unquestionably better with Flight Assist and IA than he has been in a long time, but he still sits below the power curve.

2. That kind of maths is important, but really hard to do because it depends way more on your opponent and the game state than your basic statistical dice averages. Three dice focus vs 4 dice unmodified is pretty straightforward (2.25 vs 2 on average, ignoring crits). But what are you shooting at, and what are you choosing not to shoot at? How many agility and green dice mods do they have? Have they already shot, and if not can you PS kill one of them before they do? Do you have a whole of game strategy which requires you to prioritize one target over the other? How many squad points are your targets worth relative to your ships? Could they escape and regen if they survive? There are plenty of situations where the four dice unmodified attack has advantages that way outweigh the 0.25 points of damage on average that you're giving up.

3. Only if you have ways to keep those dice alive. An eight TIE or Headhunter swarm (or four generic phantoms) will outdo just about any other list I can think of come final salvo, but unless your plan is to take 30 minutes a round setting dials and moving ships, you're unlikely to final salvo very often with it. The successful final salvo lists are those that spread damage around and keep ships alive forever and ever. That is quite a bit harder and more matchup dependent with Biggs nerfed. The best strategy remains using a list that can kill your opponent and flying it well enough that he can't kill you. A good final salvo is a substantially lower priority.

That said, my suspicion is that one of the smaller reasons that three and four Wookiee lists are as good as they are is that they are made of hard ships to kill and have a nasty number of red dice. They may final salvo more than other lists, and the dice there are probably one of their advantages. But a small one.

3 hours ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

I'm not sure Chris's statement about being able to make the cut with only dialing reasonable moves being false is true (I know that line is a true-false trainwreck, but you get the idea)

I've just came back from my first regional, and I mindlessly jousted/conceded to go eat all day long, and I went 5-1, and then made top 16.

Maybe we're all bad and jousting when we shouldn't be (I'm sure some of your wins were that).

Maybe you brought a strong jousting list and are good at making people joust it (I suspect that's some of it as well)

Wedge fills two roles in the lists I play him in.

Firstly, is a PS10/11 hammer to get a couple of big shots off into top priority targets.

Secondly, is as a Biggs surrogate - something about Wedge's defacto 4 red dice nature makes people target his early and hard ...

Run him cheap, surround him with other good endgame and support ships and laugh while wrecking face.

6 hours ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

VI, FCS, LWF, Optics QD

2x HLC, LRS, Linked, Crack Rhos.

The 'wrong place to be' was "anywhere in front of me" as the Rhos delete everybody.

Were people seeing the list and then assuming that since I didn't have Harpoons that they could joust me?

I also clearly was not a master of my own list, as game 6 I realized how I should have been flying all day with the Gunboats.

I've played similar lists a fair bit, and yeah, people tended to joust it inexplicably. It's like they saw 3 Imperial ships and stopped thinking, because it must be an aces list, right?

Until they've been on the receiving end, they haven't internalized what those things can do, and don't act appropriately.

7 hours ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

I'm not sure Chris's statement about being able to make the cut with only dialing reasonable moves being false is true (I know that line is a true-false trainwreck, but you get the idea)

I've just came back from my first regional, and I mindlessly jousted/conceded to go eat all day long, and I went 5-1, and then made top 16.

Just being reasonable definitely won't win the event, but it made the cut.

Or is this that thing where all of my lists are statistical jousting traps designed to burn everything to the ground (but don't look like they hit *that* hard if you don't know the math)? Did I just bait people into making bad choices?

Or did constantly listening to the Krayts help me git gud, and my expectation of "Reasonable" is actually very good moves?

Either way, thanks to Gold Squadron and Pastimes Games for hosting a great event! I'll be sure to show up and dump 400 promo cards on this regional again next year.

Dash is using his ability.... ;)

The Krayts are right, there's already a thread for Jumpmaster Buff (even if I'm convinced it's 100% bait), I pray that the developers and play testers realise that we do indeed have no idea what we want.

Why is the width of the bullseye arc compared to the range ruler in any way relevant?! Every time you check for bullseye arc, going with one border line is enough.

If you have a ship in arc, then you can‘t possibly lay down a range ruler flat on it.

Why does the width matter?!

1 hour ago, Quadjumper King said:

The Krayts are right, there's already a thread for Jumpmaster Buff (even if I'm convinced it's 100% bait), I pray that the developers and play testers realise that we do indeed have no idea what we want.

What this game clearly needs is a way to equip a ball glove to our ships so we can catch incoming bomb throws, and then we can throw them back. Then we can finally play catch at last in this game.

8 hours ago, hawk32 said:

What were you running?

I had Nym, “cobalt leader”, and Rex with Sabine. I’m sure the top sixteen will be posted.

8 hours ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

VI, FCS, LWF, Optics QD

2x HLC, LRS, Linked, Crack Rhos.

The 'wrong place to be' was "anywhere in front of me" as the Rhos delete everybody.

Were people seeing the list and then assuming that since I didn't have Harpoons that they could joust me?

I also clearly was not a master of my own list, as game 6 I realized how I should have been flying all day with the Gunboats.

I've been running this exact list since gunboats were made available on Vassal and I have one loss in about 12 games. My loss was against Nym and Dash and due to a poor opening engagement on my part.

37 minutes ago, Moneyinvolved said:

I had Nym, “cobalt leader”, and Rex with Sabine. I’m sure the top sixteen will be posted.

Let's Not forget the most important thing you brought, that sexy button down and tie. I was lost in your manliness all day.

7 minutes ago, catachanninja said:

Let's Not forget the most important thing you brought, that sexy button down and tie. I was lost in your manliness all day.

Business Casual. I’m no longer a filthy Casual

After the Listener 4 series I modded my own Kylo/Rho/Rho list, practiced it hard and felt really good about it. Had a bad day where I went 0/4 with it after a 7/1 W/L going into it. Then this weekends regional happened... I have to submit my list for Thursday and I have no idea what to do after all this regional crap this weekend.

But one of my lists has Wedge in it. If I make the cut with Wedge can I get templates? lol

On 1/6/2018 at 2:17 AM, Lobokai said:

Good times at past times today... finished on table 8, but missed the cut. Good luck Zack. So many Gunboats... all of my games except 1 had Gunboat(s) w missiles in them.

Edit: Listener 4 helped a ton... thanks guys

I'd have given my left nut to get matched up against all the Gunboats I saw. Instead I got chunky B/SF jank which I was woefully unprepared for. Lesson learned?...don't practice/tech too heavily in one direction! It's okay, though...on Sunday I was REDEEMED (by better match-ups)!

5 minutes ago, gennataos said:

I'd have given my left nut to get matched up against all the Gunboats I saw. Instead I got chunky B/SF jank which I was woefully unprepared for. Lesson learned?...don't practice/tech too heavily in one direction! It's okay, though...on Sunday I was REDEEMED (by better match-ups)!

what did you fly @gennataos

1 hour ago, Wiredin said:

But one of my lists has Wedge in it. If I make the cut with Wedge can I get templates? lol

PS10 Rebel Alpha? It can work... watch out for bombs... I missed cut with Wedge by 77 MOV... Trajectory simulator had me tilted after round 5's streamed embarrassment. Hit another Nym bomb tosser for round 6, which saw me tabled 100-0. So many better options on how I approached those games, but inexperience hurt me and then I went into brain lock. Both players were good though, knew what they wanted to do, outmaneuvered me totally and went on to meet each other in the semi-finals.

18 minutes ago, gennataos said:

I'd have given my left nut to get matched up against all the Gunboats I saw. Instead I got chunky B/SF jank which I was woefully unprepared for. Lesson learned?...don't practice/tech too heavily in one direction! It's okay, though...on Sunday I was REDEEMED (by better match-ups)!

The B/SF is a better ship than people realize. When they post the top 16 for Chicago you will see one in there ;)

Edited by Moneyinvolved
1 minute ago, LagJanson said:

PS10 Rebel Alpha? It can work... watch out for bombs... I missed cut with Wedge by 77 MOV... Trajectory simulator had me tilted after round 5's streamed embarrassment. Hit another Nym bomb tosser for round 6, which saw me tabled 100-0. So many better options on how I approached those games, but inexperience hurt me and then I went into brain lock. Both players were good though, knew what they wanted to do, outmaneuvered me totally and went on to meet each other in the semi-finals.

going PS11!

Wedge/VI/IA/FAA

Poe/VI/AO/R2D2/B1/AT

Fenn/FAA/Jan Ors

I tried the PS10 one we talked about in the other thread using Rey on Nym and it did pretty good, but ran into some hard PS11 during practice yesterday so decided to up to 11. Did you hit a stream at all?

16 minutes ago, Wiredin said:

going PS11!

Wedge/VI/IA/FAA

Poe/VI/AO/R2D2/B1/AT

Fenn/FAA/Jan Ors

I tried the PS10 one we talked about in the other thread using Rey on Nym and it did pretty good, but ran into some hard PS11 during practice yesterday so decided to up to 11. Did you hit a stream at all?

I ran into a Wes, Poe, Fenn list. It can be potent, but if you're just using it to counter missiles beware... there are some crazy bids out there! That said, I didn't see any PS11 Imp Alphas at all. I'm sure somebody must have brought it, but looking around the tables in Toronto it was mostly Nym. I don't think I'd fly your list. I like Wedge, but I don't think he's right there.

Yeah, I was streamed in round 5 on VTTV. You can see my shaky hands (they were bad all day, worse than usual) and Justin's nervous excitement bumping everything in a glorious stream nightmare. Probably had the chats raging pretty good. It was his first time on stream, and he doesn't hit big tournaments a heck of a lot being a good 4-5 hours north of Toronto. He played a VERY aggressive game that I didn't read correctly. Pawn sacrifice of Miranda? Never saw it coming. I made WAY too many mistakes. Deployment. Nym's missed alignment. Forgetting to drop bombs (non-factor, as it turns out,) and the trajectory simulator... oh god. I should have just shook hands at that point because I was so done. I had one chance and that was Justin screwing up and not turning in... but he did turn in of course.

Edited by LagJanson

Yea my Kylo list has a 4 point bid... which I think is healthy enough. I solo'd a Poe/Nym list after those two ate my gunboats like they were a late morning snack. Which is why I'm still leaning towards my Kylo/Rho/Rho. It's fun to fly, for me at least, because Kylo is like an A-Wing and an E-Wing in one, which are my two favorite ships in the game.

My Fenn/Wedge/Poe list could be pretty fun too, but not designed to counter missiles. More designed to fire first and tank some damage. If I can get an evade/target lock on Wedge every turn he might be a bit happier than normal.

I'm really curious what Calgary's regional meta is going to be like. It is usually all really hard netlist. I'm expecting a lot of trajectory Nym and QDnu3

9 minutes ago, Wiredin said:

what did you fly @gennataos

I may be shamed in this thread by just posting it because it's not regen Poe, but whatever, I don't want it or need it. I flew this Friday after having practiced heavily with my group against missile carriers of all types (including Deadeye). I practiced far too heavily against missile carriers and not much other stuff. I'm not sad about the list at all, just sad about not practicing against a wider variety of lists. I went 2-4, but conceded the last match after 30 minutes of apathetically moving ships around the table. /shrug

Poe Dameron (PS9) (33)
Veteran Instincts (1)
BB-8 (2)
Advanced Optics (2)
Autothrusters (2)
Black One (1)

Rey (45)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Finn (5)
Kanan Jarrus (3)
Countermeasures (3)
Millennium Falcon (TFA) (1)

Total: 99

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

For Redemption Sunday, after much deliberation about flying something completely different, I switched back to my original version which swaps CMs and the bid out for Engine on Rey. I'd rather range/dodge out of missiles than pop a 3-point card to do it once. Went 3-1, with all three wins 100-0 tables. I never had delusions it's a regional winner, but I love it, it's crazy fun to fly (with Engine) and is definitely local-good.

10 minutes ago, Moneyinvolved said:

The B/SF is a better ship than people realize. When they post the top 16 you will see one in there ;)

Oh, I'm painfully aware of that now! It's a chunky bastard which is pain in the *** to approach. I didn't know how to approach it then, I do now!

As an aside, the Chicago regional was a ton of fun. After playing for a little over a year, it was the first time I've gone to something larger than a local store champs of 20+ people. There was a big group of us from our local St. Louis scene, we got a few in the top 32 (@abell19 and Bob "The Falcon King" Howe, ftw...next time!!!) and I got to meet a bunch of great people. Being table side when @catachanninja was told Rey has 5 shields, while playing one of our locals, @Heimdall Ulf, is something I won't soon forget. I also got to play Nate Moore twice and declare when he switched from the dice app for physical dice during redemption, to a standing ovation for the occasion. ;)

54 minutes ago, Moneyinvolved said:

The B/SF is a better ship than people realize. When they post the top 16 for Chicago you will see one in there ;)

Agreed. I flew three of them together on a challenge against a Kylo + miniswarm and won. It's also pretty simple to flew fairly well, even out of the box.

New podcast!

“A stunning return to form”- the only critic able to sit though it.

Man, people ******* about gunboats are either new, or never learned to Range Control. New players only know list changes to counter things, because of the combo direction the game has gone. Also, all the podcasts and forum discussion is “what was the list” to the point of not caring about the names of who was flying (like you talked about with the space marine approach, we need more of that).

I feel bad bad calling out a local, but he’s a great guy and a better example. He flew a Decimator and two small ships, jousted me, landed on two rocks, lost, and posted to our Facebook group about he is changing lists.

People are are used to list building solutions and the maneuver solutions take Work to learn.

Also: shout out to “like ogres”, was that Ben? How do I do a smiley face with heart eyes?

Edited by AEIllingworth

Double postin cause I don’t care.

I will absolutely joust gunboats with anything that moves after them and has boost. Everybody puts them in a line and either goes 1 straight or 3 straight. Plan for the 3, boost if they went 1, and jump to range one every time.

About round four, maybe five I’ll stop doing that, but rounds 1-3 all I want to do is bring Carnor.

33 minutes ago, gennataos said:

I may be shamed in this thread by just posting it because it's not regen Poe, but whatever, I don't want it or need it. I flew this Friday after having practiced heavily with my group against missile carriers of all types (including Deadeye). I practiced far too heavily against missile carriers and not much other stuff. I'm not sad about the list at all, just sad about not practicing against a wider variety of lists. I went 2-4, but conceded the last match after 30 minutes of apathetically moving ships around the table. /shrug

Poe Dameron (PS9) (33)
Veteran Instincts (1)
BB-8 (2)
Advanced Optics (2)
Autothrusters (2)
Black One (1)

Rey (45)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Finn (5)
Kanan Jarrus (3)
Countermeasures (3)
Millennium Falcon (TFA) (1)

Total: 99

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

For Redemption Sunday, after much deliberation about flying something completely different, I switched back to my original version which swaps CMs and the bid out for Engine on Rey. I'd rather range/dodge out of missiles than pop a 3-point card to do it once. Went 3-1, with all three wins 100-0 tables. I never had delusions it's a regional winner, but I love it, it's crazy fun to fly (with Engine) and is definitely local-good.

I've been tempted by your EU list for Calgary regional. but I have way too many regional considerations to fly... and its on the 13th with the final list submission Thursday night. We do seem to like similar builds so I'm very curious... I do love me some Rey. The Poe is solid too.

For my practice I haven't seen a lot of boats....

Miranda Nym (x2)

Dash Poe (x2)

Fenn Dalan + 1

Assaj/Nym

QDnu3

are the ones I've seen quite a bit of. Trajectory Nym I finally started figuring out yesterday, I'm not too worried about QDnu3...but Assaj always throws up on my plans and annihilates me. shadowcasters are my krypotnite.