From a competitive standpoint, I think there's a lot more value in identifying "problems" in the meta and trying to hive-mind solutions via list building and strategy/tactics than trying to come up with redesigns of game mechanics which are out of our control. That many upsilons in Hyperspace currently looks like a problem I know I'd like solved.
Carolina Krayts is the best X-Wing podcast
If only the rules would let us build a wall to counter Dormammu.
1 minute ago, gennataos said:From a competitive standpoint, I think there's a lot more value in identifying "problems" in the meta and trying to hive-mind solutions via list building and strategy/tactics than trying to come up with redesigns of game mechanics which are out of our control. That many upsilons in Hyperspace currently looks like a problem I know I'd like solved.
True. I don't think people have tried too hard to solve the puzzle yet. Well, they've tried it from the point of view of looking at different deployments of their favorite squad, but not significantly shifting the squad composition to deal with the Ups.
It's going to be really hilarious if Resistance Han and Boba crew become meta-counter staples.
Just now, Boom Owl said:If only the rules would let us build a wall to counter Dormammu.
DQ Doctor Strange for slow play
1 minute ago, Mattman7306 said:DQ Doctor Strange for slow play
Dormammu, I've come to bargain
2 minutes ago, LagJanson said:Low init ship doesn't have R3, moves. High init ship now has range 3.
It's the turn before that where it matters. If the low init ships range control well they end up just beyond range 3 when they complete their move.
The high init ship has to look at the board on it's activation and eyeball if they are in range of the other ships and declare a lock at that point. If they are beyond range 3 they don't get the lock. They then have to move and not get an action when they complete the move since the TL failed. Now the low init ships have a chance of actually doing something against that other one. They can light it up since it might not have any mods, they can take a TL on it before moving on their next turn and get a block on the ace when that ship moves.
5 minutes ago, Biophysical said:True. I don't think people have tried too hard to solve the puzzle yet. Well, they've tried it from the point of view of looking at different deployments of their favorite squad, but not significantly shifting the squad composition to deal with the Ups.
Teams of three tends to apply to list building for a lot of people.
3 minutes ago, viedit said:It's the turn before that where it matters. If the low init ships range control well they end up just beyond range 3 when they complete their move.
The high init ship has to look at the board on it's activation and eyeball if they are in range of the other ships and declare a lock at that point. If they are beyond range 3 they don't get the lock. They then have to move and not get an action when they complete the move since the TL failed. Now the low init ships have a chance of actually doing something against that other one. They can light it up since it might not have any mods, they can take a TL on it before moving on their next turn and get a block on the ace when that ship moves.
I mean, my statement is an over-simplification, of course. It's still range control, just the ace player repositions the turn before to be as close to, but not in, range 3 as they can.
26 minutes ago, Brunas said:Oh yeah: Hyperspace Qualifier Lists: https://listfortress.com/tournaments/271
Interesting to look over, huh?
18 minutes ago, svelok said:115 lists... 35 Upsilons?
That doesn't make sense. Does it?
12 minutes ago, gennataos said:That many upsilons in Hyperspace currently looks like a problem I know I'd like solved.
Shuttles that can't maneuver are now a problem in X-Wing?
I know I didn't get wasted this weekend; did I? No.
What is going on exactly over there in Phoenix? The world ending or something? Help.
12 minutes ago, Biophysical said:True. I don't think people have tried too hard to solve the puzzle yet. Well, they've tried it from the point of view of looking at different deployments of their favorite squad, but not significantly shifting the squad composition to deal with the Ups.
I think trying to solve the puzzle without adjusting the list is more interesting. Adjusting the list for a specific problem feels like a concession and avoiding that feels superior.
1 minute ago, LagJanson said:I mean, my statement is an over-simplification, of course. It's still range control, just the ace player repositions the turn before to be as close to, but not in, range 3 as they can.
But the other ships still get a vote there. If he's just outside of range that turn to setup the next, you just ram in there, setup a wall and force a range 1. You get one extra round as a low initiative to setup your engagements than under current rules where an ace can just dip in at R3 and sneak a TL and light up something before it does anything.
6 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:I think trying to solve the puzzle without adjusting the list is more interesting. Adjusting the list for a specific problem feels like a concession and avoiding that feels superior.
You know what I come to play xwing for?
puzzles that don’t look like dog fighting!
2 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:I think trying to solve the puzzle without adjusting the list is more interesting. Adjusting the list for a specific problem feels like a concession and avoiding that feels superior.
I agree trying to solve the puzzle with strategy/tactics is more interesting, but there reaches a point where it's not working and devolves into self-imposed restriction territory. When I see something oppressive and dumb and not fun, all I want to do is drive that "thing" out of the meta.
Somewhat tangentially related, yesterday my core group was chatting about what felt "least unfair" of the top SO squads....Dash/Roark, quads Sigmas or SoL. We agreed SoL. How messed up is that?
1 minute ago, viedit said:But the other ships still get a vote there. If he's just outside of range that turn to setup the next, you just ram in there, setup a wall and force a range 1. You get one extra round as a low initiative to setup your engagements than under current rules where an ace can just dip in at R3 and sneak a TL and light up something before it does anything.
True. I did think on that, and it triggers a more interesting engagement. Does the ace kturn assuming the charge? Does the ace bank away content with the TL for later? Does the ace assume slower maneuver and get "F'd". There are other repercussions though... k-turn torpedoes would be on the rise since they would no longer require the setup time.
Without really serious time to think things through, I doubt we're going to see the ripple effects.
2 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:You know what I come to play xwing for? ...puzzles that don’t look like dog fighting!
Flying? Is that what 2.0 was designed for?
32 minutes ago, Mattman7306 said:
I'll take no credit. Was going to help, but it got too late before qualifier round 6 finished and it wasn't updating on the app. We assumed they might not just enter the final standings from the hyperspace qualifier, but apparently Iain Hamp ended up doing so.
2 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:You know what I come to play xwing for?
puzzles that don’t look like dog fighting!
Of course not, but I didn't say that either. You know what I come to play xwing for? Definitely not to adjust what I want to play because there is a combination of cards that's very hard to solve.
So clearly, figuring out how to keep playing what I like without drawing an autoloss in that one matchup is feasible?
Part of me regards the Trip Ups list with more than a little bit of affection. I know it's a rampantly efficient list with overwhelming firepower and a huge deployment advantage, but it's a pure jousting list. It doesn't rely on any kind of responsiveness or tricks or perfect information (after deployment, at least).
Edited by Biophysical3 minutes ago, Biophysical said:Part of me regards the Trip Ups list with more than a little bit of affection. I know it's a rampantly efficient list with overwhelming firepower and a huge deployment advantage, but it's a pure jousting list. It doesn't rely on any kind of responsiveness or tricks or perfect information.
I think theres a big difference between talking about Trip Upsilons and Forward Deployed on Rocks Dormitz Upsilons. Both are solvable puzzles but I have alot more patience for one than the other.
Just now, Biophysical said:Part of me regards the Trip Ups list with more than a little bit of affection. I know it's a rampantly efficient list with overwhelming firepower and a huge deployment advantage, but it's a pure jousting list. It doesn't rely on any kind of responsiveness or tricks or perfect information.
Doesn't it? Doesn't it rely on I6 setup, the trick of Dormitz/Hyperspace Comm whatever and a tech of choice to make obstacles not matter?
Just now, Boom Owl said:I think theres a big difference between talking about Trip Upsilons and Forward Deployed on Rocks Dormitz Upsilons. Both are solvable puzzles but I have alot more patience for one than the other.
I know. I feel like without either Dormitz OR Hyperspace it would be a really interesting list. One of those seems fine.
6 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:I think trying to solve the puzzle without adjusting the list is more interesting. Adjusting the list for a specific problem feels like a concession and avoiding that feels superior.
You know what I come to play xwing for?
puzzles that don’t look like dog fighting!
36 minutes ago, Mattman7306 said:
Yep, those are your MVPs. Thanks again guys!
13 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:Interesting to look over, huh?
That doesn't make sense. Does it?
Shuttles that can't maneuver are now a problem in X-Wing?
I know I didn't get wasted this weekend; did I? No.
What is going on exactly over there in Phoenix? The world ending or something? Help.
The whole set of lists reads like a vote of no confidence in the lists people play, haha. I wonder if the trend continues - FO jousting lists just dominate because we're all trash. Don't think we don't see that Swarm Tactics Null.
Just now, Biophysical said:Part of me regards the Trip Ups list with more than a little bit of affection. I know it's a rampantly efficient list with overwhelming firepower and a huge deployment advantage, but it's a pure jousting list. It doesn't rely on any kind of responsiveness or tricks or perfect information.
I'd agree, if not for Hyperspace Tracking/Dormitz. I'm still not sure it wouldn't be solved by a meta adjustment without any points or that it's actually going to be a big meta problem if not resolved today, but it's not particularly fun to play against it when they know what they're doing 
1 minute ago, gennataos said:Doesn't it? Doesn't it rely on I6 setup, the trick of Dormitz/Hyperspace Comm whatever and a tech of choice to make obstacles not matter?
You caught me before I amended my comment to specify after deployment.