HLC does seem to dovetail nicely with Lone Wolf as you can use one action for repositioning, one for focus, and Lone Wolf for the reroll.

How good will squad leader be on RZ2s and if good, why is it not good for rebels already?

3 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

How good will squad leader be on RZ2s and if good, why is it not good for rebels already?

It's not smashingly good for Imperials on v1 Barons for 38 total points, and they have all the advantages the A-wings have (lots of greens, all the actions).

Probably because little ships need to be free to run, not be tethered and get shot without an action for defense.

Or maybe it is good, but unexplored because Imperials have so much other stuff.

10 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

why is it not good for rebels already?

AP-5.

24 minutes ago, gennataos said:

The only viable carrier we've had thus far is the defender, right? And they don't have double reposition.

My thought on HLC is rooted squarely on seeing good Soontir play to line up the bullseye. I think trading the 1-hards for 1-forward and 1-banks puts Poe in a good position to be able to line those up because you have more granularity in the degrees of your movements.

Or I'm way wrong and it's dumb and I just end up taking torps (or nothing). The T-70 feels like it's paying for that hardpoint, so I want to make use of it as efficiently as possible.

HLC vs Torps might be an issue of what the Poe Philosophy is. Torps are powerful, and easy to use. HLC is a little less powerful, but cheaper and has serious requirements. I could see strapping HLC on a cheaper Poe than you intend to maneuver with. You don't mind taking bad shots with it because it's not charge limited. The Torp Poe fits better in a jousting group, where getting bullseye requires bad opponents.

32 minutes ago, gennataos said:

I'm not suggesting one or the other, I'm suggesting both. I don't know if it'll be good, I'm just looking at as a training tool to consider approach vectors better. The next big event I have is Adepticon, plenty of time to figure things out. I don't want to dismiss anything until I've tried it myself.

You can fit a very good Poe with multiple wingmates, no problem.

Ah alright. Predator being primary only means it only works at range 1 then, but it's still probably worth it?

And yeah, I've been building a couple Poe lists, I guess I just always seem to want more points somewhere. I also feel like he can get by with being really cheap since three dice can still do work and his primary win condition is more "don't get shot" than "alpha everything off the board" - the first place I'd invest points on him would probably be the title and BB-8 to let him bail out a couple times per game.

11 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

How good will squad leader be on RZ2s and if good, why is it not good for rebels already?

Or in more detail. Squad leader is useful on RZ2s because it is the cheapest way to get coordinate into the resistance faction.

Rebel's have a cheaper option with AP-5 (w/ white coordinate), a cheaper option in a tala with squad leader, and a tankier option with the u-wing. You don't to pay 38 pts for a ship that relies on actions for defense that's built to spend actions coordinating when you have cheaper options.

2 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

the first place I'd invest points on him would probably be the title and BB-8 to let him bail out a couple times per game.

Shhh...don't tell anyone! R4 is required because Poe will be stressed and it's impossible to do anything without a blue hard 2! Or so I've heard...

10 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

It's not smashingly good for Imperials on v1 Barons for 38 total points, and they have all the advantages the A-wings have (lots of greens, all the actions).

Probably because little ships need to be free to run, not be tethered and get shot without an action for defense.

Or maybe it is good, but unexplored because Imperials have so much other stuff.

the lambda and the reaper seems to get their money's worth as coordinating platforms, particularly Sai. A 38pt baron is 5pts cheaper than the OGP that will be much harder to bring down. Unless you can get them for a steal (sheathipede and escape craft), I'd rather my coordinate ships be chunky.

1 hour ago, Kieransi said:

HLC is a weird card, I don't think it's made a cut in any list so far, and I just haven't really seen it played much. I think HLC is interesting on Poe though, for sure, since he can line up bullseye easier. The problem for me is that a fourth die is only very slightly better than a reroll when you're using actions to arcdodge, Predator works at range 1, and HLC costs more.

Didn't an HLC Rexler Brath + Supernatural Vader list make top 16 somewhere, like Coruscant maybe?

//

Anyhow, there haven't really been good HLC carriers before T-70, though. B-Wings aren't bad, but they're all low-init. Defenders are already wicked expensive. Scyks? Hah. Boba or IG-88s? Not really. Lambda? Are you f'ing kidding me? Might not be too bad on a Mist Hunter 4-LOM, however.

But the T-70 has linked focus/barrel roll, as well as Initiative 5 and 6 pilots. Ello Asty seems particularly nasty with it, at Init 5 with white T-Rolls.

Personally, I'm more bullish on Proton Torpedoes for Poe, and I'm perversely tempted by Ion Cannon on him, but I think the T-70 is a major step-up in terms of ships which can take the HLC.

6 minutes ago, gennataos said:

Shhh...don't tell anyone! R4 is required because Poe will be stressed and it's impossible to do anything without a blue hard 2! Or so I've heard...

memes aside, bb8 effectively costs 16 points now. No one could tell you more than an educated guess whether or not that's worth it, but it's still an extreme tax so I get the skepticism.

2 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Didn't an HLC Rexler Brath + Supernatural Vader list make top 16 somewhere, like Coruscant maybe?

Top 8 of Coruscant. Francois Moret with an ion cannon Rexler and Vader.

1 minute ago, Brunas said:

memes aside, bb8 effectively costs 16 points now. No one could tell you more than an educated guess whether or not that's worth it, but it's still an extreme tax so I get the skepticism.

Poe's pretty cool in that he seems capable of being built like either Vader or Soontir. You can go all in on reposition and running away and living until the endgame, and then he's half your list and your win condition involves him not dying, or you can keep him cheap and sort of yolo him in there and mess up your opponent's plans and set up the rest of your list for victory without really caring if he lives or not.

2 minutes ago, Brunas said:

memes aside, bb8 effectively costs 16 points now. No one could tell you more than an educated guess whether or not that's worth it, but it's still an extreme tax so I get the skepticism.

it feels like the r2d2/bb8 argument of yesteryear. R4 makes poe better every turn, but bb8 will occasionally get you out of spots that r4 poe can't and good player can leverage that threat.

3 minutes ago, Brunas said:

memes aside, bb8 effectively costs 16 points now. No one could tell you more than an educated guess whether or not that's worth it, but it's still an extreme tax so I get the skepticism.

Yep, don't disagree. My skepticism is high as well. I mean, if I have to paste the BB-8 card art onto my R4 card, I will, but I won't be happy about it.

1 minute ago, jagsba said:

it feels like the r2d2/bb8 argument of yesteryear. R4 makes poe better every turn, but bb8 will occasionally get you out of spots that r4 poe can't and good player can leverage that threat.

I resemble that remark, aside from the "good player" part. Really, I used BB-8 liberally for positional advantage. BR->1-bank was probably 50% of my moves with him. I'm trying to keep hope alive, but only being able to use it twice a game makes me incredibly sad.

17 minutes ago, jagsba said:

Or in more detail. Squad leader is useful on RZ2s because it is the cheapest way to get coordinate into the resistance faction.

Rebel's have a cheaper option with AP-5 (w/ white coordinate), a cheaper option in a tala with squad leader, and a tankier option with the u-wing. You don't to pay 38 pts for a ship that relies on actions for defense that's built to spend actions coordinating when you have cheaper options.

15 minutes ago, jagsba said:

the lambda and the reaper seems to get their money's worth as coordinating platforms, particularly Sai. A 38pt baron is 5pts cheaper than the OGP that will be much harder to bring down. Unless you can get them for a steal (sheathipede and escape craft), I'd rather my coordinate ships be chunky.

How are they built though, and what do they bring? Especially Sai and Ap5 have built in boni for coordinate.

I don't believe yet that an awing will be good as coordinator for resistance. I'd bet that we don't see many in 3 months.

How good is Primed Thrusters on Poe when you're not using BB8? Its good to have that repositioning open on red moves or white moves while stressed. Is it 8 points good? I'm wondering how much of its cost we'd have to put on BB8 and how much it's intrinsically worth on Poe.

2 minutes ago, gennataos said:

I resemble that remark, aside from the "good player" part. Really, I used BB-8 liberally for positional advantage. BR->1-bank was probably 50% of my moves with him. I'm trying to keep hope alive, but only being able to use it twice a game makes me incredibly sad.

I think it's like bombs nowadays, you can use the charges early, but if you're smart, you hold onto the charges and make your opponent think 'what if he spends it this turn?'

1 minute ago, GreenDragoon said:

How are they built though, and what do they bring? Especially Sai and Ap5 have built in boni for coordinate.

I don't believe yet that an awing will be good as coordinator for resistance. I'd bet that we don't see many in 3 months.

I agree, the you don't see coordinating a wings/v1s because its a clunky way to do it and there are better options.

The resistance only has a couple ways to get coordinate, so the A wing won't be as good, but it'll be one of their only options. If you need a coordinate in resistance, the a wing or c3p0 are pretty much your options, it'll be interesting to see if the coordinate is worth the higher cost you pay in resistance.

7 minutes ago, jagsba said:

I think it's like bombs nowadays, you can use the charges early, but if you're smart, you hold onto the charges and make your opponent think 'what if he spends it this turn?'

One of the first things I did after everything was spoiled was see where a bank-boost->3-hard->t-roll->BR put me. Assuming someone in a chase position, it's basically on their flank and behind them. That's unique in the game, I think.

6 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

How good is Primed Thrusters on Poe when you're not using BB8? Its good to have that repositioning open on red moves or white moves while stressed. Is it 8 points good? I'm wondering how much of its cost we'd have to put on BB8 and how much it's intrinsically worth on Poe.

Yeah, PT is a tax to reasonably include BB-8 on Poe, but it's not tossed out the window when his charges are spent. That's a lot of points, though.

11 minutes ago, jagsba said:

Top 8 of Coruscant. Francois Moret with an ion cannon Rexler and Vader.

Says HLC here. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If it's wrong, blame the Mynocks.

3 minutes ago, jagsba said:

The resistance only has a couple ways to get coordinate, so the A wing won't be as good, but it'll be one of their only options. If you need a coordinate in resistance, the a wing or c3p0 are pretty much your options, it'll be interesting to see if the coordinate is worth the higher cost you pay in resistance. 

I see that and I agree. But in my opinion, the chances that a resistance squad has a ship who really likes a coordinate will also have a yt1300 is pretty high. And c3po is a viable choice - especially because of Rey and her force. Plus, the calculate on top reinforces that.

2 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Says HLC here. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If it's wrong, blame the Mynocks.

huh, list fortress has it as ion.