With your 102 Kylo and 18 point bid, you can fit 2 Conc S/Fs. They pack a decent enough punch that you can't ignore them, and require a bit of focus fire to take down.
Carolina Krayts is the best X-Wing podcast
4 minutes ago, pheaver said:With your 102 Kylo and 18 point bid, you can fit 2 Conc S/Fs. They pack a decent enough punch that you can't ignore them, and require a bit of focus fire to take down.
I think that's the puzzle piece waiting to be solved. Is there enough other stuff you can pack in with Kylo that can punch some damage through and take the heat off him. That way he can do donuts in the corner and chose to engage once half your list is on fire.
2 hours ago, viedit said:
Mostly, I think it'd be clunky design.
With Advanced Sensors, I think the no-more-actions requirement is probably enough of a balancing factor. AdvS is pretty good, but that drawback stops a lot of the worst edge cases. However, it'd probably be fine as something like a Leia or Dace Bonearm, requiring you to spend multiple recurring charges. I think the two BB-unit droids would have been more fun like that.
With Supernatural Reflexes, it'd have it's own charges, and would require also force charges, and that just seems awkward. I don't mind some other restriction, but two kinds of charges just squicks me out. I mean, what if SNR just required two force charges? It'd be cleaner than two kinds of charges.
I'm saying just treat them like BB-8/Afterburners. Stick two or three charge tokens on there and call it good. You get 2-3 turns a game to break the rules. Use them wisely.
Edited by vieditI just tried to listen to these guys and the latest seems to be recorded in the Car. I can't say I listened for more than a few minutes.
1 minute ago, william1134 said:I just tried to listen to these guys and the latest seems to be recorded in the Car. I can't say I listened for more than a few minutes.
This is the correct response
6 minutes ago, viedit said:I'm saying just treat them like BB-8/Afterburners. Stick two or three charge tokens on there and call it good. You get 2-3 turns a game to break the rules. Use them wisely.
Oh, I get what you're saying. I like that they introduced charges to the game, as a way to limit how various abilities work. I just think I just like things to be a slightly different flavor.
Making BB-8 like Autothrusters is the way FFG went with the game. It also would have been cool if he was like Liea. You have build up three or four tokens, then he can give you your pre-dial movement action. Is twice per game better or worse than every four turns? Hard to say. There'd still be an element of "use it wisely."
Again, I don't mind restrictions, but I don't really want every restriction to be the same. To that end, I like that Virago works in a pretty different way from Afterburners. It's two fixed charges for boosts, but it feels really different. Playing with different phases is really cool (Cad Bane is a wicked cool design). What if Advanced Sensors was an action in the System phase, and then you couldn't perform actions in the Activation phase at all? I think that'd be cooler than just having a two-per-game charge on it.
Also, fluff-wise, two charges on Advanced Sensors is kinda odd... do you run out of information? Non-recurring charges there just "feel" odd to me. Again, mostly I just have a different flavor preference..
Hmm…. I remember similar discussion in this thread before 1.0 Kylo came out: "broken, op, crazy, don't want to play this game anymore, uncatchable" etc.
Quickly turned out that 1.0 Kylo was good, but only slightly above average, as I remember won only 2 major tournaments (Chris won Regio with Kylo + 2 boats and Martin Chivers won Yavin SOS).
I'am curious how it'll turn out this time.
SNR and advS are like boosting fat turrets, or Luke Gunner.
They don't have to dominate the meta to be bad for the game. The mere fact of their existence is cause for concern because they invalidate the quintessential decision of choosing your dials. And I'd argue that the feeling that your dial didn't matter was a huge component of 1e apathy.
Even when it's bad, SNR is always sitting on the edge, the right card combo or points adjustment or new ship could push it over the edge.
In 1e you could beat kylo. But you needed some amount of tech or a significant (compared to other aces) critical mass of ships. And even then, it wasn't fun. Why put things into the game that aren't fun?
25 minutes ago, Oldpara said:Hmm…. I remember similar discussion in this thread before 1.0 Kylo came out: "broken, op, crazy, don't want to play this game anymore, uncatchable" etc.
Quickly turned out that 1.0 Kylo was good, but only slightly above average, as I remember won only 2 major tournaments (Chris won Regio with Kylo + 2 boats and Martin Chivers won Yavin SOS).
I'am curious how it'll turn out this time.
Power level wise, if anyone cares for my opinion I suspect it's about the same - Good enough, but not popular. I'm less worried about that though, because largely your original quote was correct: "broken, op, crazy, don't want to play this game anymore, uncatchable"
We just had ps10+ tragedy/AS bombing turrets keeping him in check then, whereas now we've got i6 super/bb8 aces moving after him, so who knows what's going to happen. I guess what I mean is, Kylo moving last isn't fun or engaging, which is what jagsba said better than me anyways.
Edited by Brunas3 minutes ago, jagsba said:SNR and advS are like boosting fat turrets, or Luke Gunner.
They don't have to dominate the meta to be bad for the game. The mere fact of their existence is cause for concern because they invalidate the quintessential decision of choosing your dials. And I'd argue that the feeling that your dial didn't matter was a huge component of 1e apathy.
Even when it's bad, SNR is always sitting on the edge, the right card combo or points adjustment or new ship could push it over the edge.
In 1e you could beat kylo. But you needed some amount of tech or a significant (compared to other aces) critical mass of ships. And even then, it wasn't fun. Why put things into the game that aren't fun?
2 minutes ago, Brunas said:Power level wise, if anyone cares for my opinion I suspect it's about the same - Good enough, but not popular. I'm less worried about that though, because largely your original quote was correct: "broken, op, crazy, don't want to play this game anymore, uncatchable"
We had ps10+ tragedy/AS bombing turrets keeping him in check then, whereas now we've got i6 super/bb8 aces moving after him, so who knows what's going to happen.
Worth repeating.
people mistake ‘NPE’ and ‘unfun’ as the same as ‘OP’.
While they do go hand in hand often, they don’t have to.
13 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:Worth repeating.
people mistake ‘NPE’ and ‘unfun’ as the same as ‘OP’.
While they do go hand in hand often, they don’t have to.
I was one of those who mistook "NPE" as "OP". I can't disagree with NPE. ****, AS Guri is an NPE if moving last, so I'm sure Kylo will be.
edit - I'm betting Poe will be, too, and will move last a lot more.
Edited by gennataos4 minutes ago, gennataos said:edit - I'm betting Poe will be, too, and will move last a lot more.
Fingers crossed primed + bb8 + black one poe is too expensive to be good!
Actually, relevant quote from a dev (I think it was Max?). Something to the effect of making your opponent spend some resource to do something that feels bad feels much less bad than making no progress, even if it's effectively the same thing. I suspect BB8 having two charges makes it feel much better to play against, even if two charges is enough to make sure you can never commit your list fully to Poe, which is the same problem as Supernatural Reflexes.
Dress it up however you want these two things make the game less not more interactive:
- Pre-Movement Actions
- Passive Actions
That includes Force charges.
3 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:Dress it up however you want these two things make the game less not more interactive:
- Pre-Movement Actions
- Passive Actions
That includes Force charges.
If charges (and force charges) were only recovered when fully executing a maneuver instead of in the end phase, would that still be true for force charges? It would break a lot of random stuff, but just curious if it would feel less bad.
5 minutes ago, Brunas said:If charges (and force charges) were only recovered when fully executing a maneuver instead of in the end phase, would that still be true for force charges? It would break a lot of random stuff, but just curious if it would feel less bad.
The main thing I haven't liked about force since the start is that it works while stressed and while blocked or having gone over a rock.
Separate note I tried your snoke kylo list....
Talk about feels bad man. Im not even sure its good but holy **** is flipping dials at that range disrespectful. Why havent i been doing this with Sense...
1 hour ago, Oldpara said:Hmm…. I remember similar discussion in this thread before 1.0 Kylo came out: "broken, op, crazy, don't want to play this game anymore, uncatchable" etc.
Quickly turned out that 1.0 Kylo was good, but only slightly above average, as I remember won only 2 major tournaments (Chris won Regio with Kylo + 2 boats and Martin Chivers won Yavin SOS).
I'am curious how it'll turn out this time.
The System Open at Origins won by Phil Horny doesn't count in this statement because Paul Heaver didn't make the cut.
I agree
12 minutes ago, player3010587 said:The System Open at Origins won by Phil Horny doesn't count in this statement because Paul Heaver didn't make the cut.
Apologize if I missed something
2 minutes ago, Oldpara said:Apologize if I missed something
American system open. Nothing important.
Just now, Oldpara said:Apologize if I missed something
Just joking, of course! Not to take away from Phil's skillful victory, but it was a rather small open (65 players, I believe). A lot of people were burnt out of 1st edition due to the reveal of 2nd edition and the superabundance of Miranda and her counters (Kylo, Quickdraw, alphas from the 3 factions, Quickdraw, wookies, Quickdraw, slightly altered mirror matches, Quickdraw).
2 minutes ago, jagsba said:American system open. Nothing important.
Yeah, it was a bit small to be earth-shattering, but now we must face the other side of the coin. If American system opens are not important, then we are no longer allowed to make comments on what was flown at PAX Unplugged and claim that said comments point to a large development.
4 minutes ago, player3010587 said:Yeah, it was a bit small to be earth-shattering, but now we must face the other side of the coin. If American system opens are not important, then we are no longer allowed to make comments on what was flown at PAX Unplugged and claim that said comments point to a large development.
We can simply point to a concerted effort on the part of podcasts to push a dash roarke agenda to cast aspersions on the results.
34 minutes ago, Rytackle said:I agree
Taking the thread back to the roots AND contributing!
1 hour ago, Boom Owl said:The main thing I haven't liked about force since the start is that it works while stressed and while blocked or having gone over a rock.
Separate note I tried your snoke kylo list....
Talk about feels bad man. Im not even sure its good but holy **** is flipping dials at that range disrespectful. Why havent i been doing this with Sense...
The only pilot who feels really broken with the Force is Luke because of the regen. If he was in anything that was better than a T-65...
Kylo will be strong, but I think he fits more into a rock/paper/scissor meta. He will do well against 2-3 ship lists with no i6, but with no 1.0 autothrusters a canny opponent will just set up kill boxes that force him into either not shooting to avoid most of the box or just relying on dice luck. Imagine if Soontir didn't actually move last?