1 minute ago, Brunas said:

If you made Vader 20 points cheaper he'd be cheaper than Wedge.

Can I have Vader in a T-70?

2 minutes ago, Brunas said:

If you made Vader 20 points cheaper he'd be cheaper than Wedge.

see also: soontir.

9 minutes ago, Brunas said:

If you made Vader 20 points cheaper he'd be cheaper than Wedge.

7 minutes ago, jagsba said:

see also: soontir.

Both the T-65 and Interceptor Chassis are way better than an x1. Vader without SNR is crap and if you have to pay minimum 100 point for just Vader w/SNR he's gonna essentially be unplayable since you can't take anything with him.

Just now, impspy said:

Both the T-65 and Interceptor Chassis are way better than an x1. Vader without SNR is crap and if you have to pay minimum 100 point for just Vader w/SNR he's gonna essentially be unplayable since you can't take anything with him.

You wouldn't pay 50 points for not-supernatural Vader? That's the same price as current Maarek. Or roughly shield upgrade Duchess.

I don't believe you?

1 minute ago, Brunas said:

You wouldn't pay 50 points for not-supernatural Vader? That's the same price as current Maarek. Or roughly shield upgrade Duchess.

I don't believe you?

No I'm saying I wouldn't pay 100+ for SNR Vader.

I would totally pay 50-60 for Vader naked.

Just now, impspy said:

No I'm saying I wouldn't pay 100+ for SNR Vader.

I would totally pay 50-60 for Vader naked.

Oh, that makes much more sense! haha.

2 minutes ago, impspy said:

No I'm saying I wouldn't pay 100+ for SNR Vader.

I would totally pay 50-60 for Vader naked.

Also, that's the goal.

1 hour ago, Tlfj200 said:

That keeps kylo honest?

To clarify, definitely not by herself. If a list is trying to have 3-4 ships, most of which besides Talli is much more threatening of firing arcs, then her as a filler at i5 and consistent 2 dice damage output isn't something to completely be okay staying in her arc for multiple times a game.

If they had made S-Foils - or, gasp, speak not the name of the beast known as errata - say "Setup: equip this side faceup" on the closed side, SR could be priced based on boost/roll/both, which seems pretty fair.

Initiative scaling sounds pretty fair too, though.

To be entirely honest I might be in on Supernatural Inquisitor's rolling all over the place at I3.

2 hours ago, Biophysical said:

Also, from your experience, does Kylo especially care about move order vs Luke or Boba, or is it principally for the mirror?

Not really. There are only so many places a Luke (particularly a stressed one) can go, and given the nature of kiting a rear arc, Marauder + Dad fly a somewhat predictable path. If Boba is charging you, pull some shenanigans to end up focused and behind a distant rock, biding your time. He's not Blackout with Torps and bloodlust. That being said, moving before Boba means that you are afforded near-0 mistakes, as 3 hp lost mean a hefty bleed of 51 pt.

2 hours ago, gennataos said:

#twodieshotsmatter

#mostdamageonmyfennisunmoddedrange3througharockorvadercrew

Or marksman Seyn getting lucky and cancelling dice.

2 hours ago, gennataos said:

#twodieshotsmatter

This has been funny to watch in particular. we, as a community, simultaneously hold the opinion that 2 die shots aren't good enough, but also that "arc-dodgers" aren't good enough because they pretty consistently take damage at range 3 from... 2 die shots.

We can't have it both ways!

2 minutes ago, Brunas said:

We can't have it both ways!

Clearly we're so bad at the game we infact can

2 minutes ago, Brunas said:

This has been funny to watch in particular. we, as a community, simultaneously hold the opinion that 2 die shots aren't good enough, but also that "arc-dodgers" aren't good enough because they pretty consistently take damage at range 3 from... 2 die shots.

We can't have it both ways!

My dice are always bad and my opponent's dice are always amazing, that's clearly the only reason why I lose

2 hours ago, Dreadai said:

why deal in real terms when hyperbole laden diatribes will suffice. Decent i6 aces will feast on Kylo, Poe is the best of them. Interestingly, you can easily build Poe to out point Kylo, and even put regen on him if you like.

Aaaaand that's why you need an I6 "protector" of Kylo and not just a silly bid, just like in 1st edition, you needed to pack an PS10/11 protector. Poe is the biggest threat to Kylo mainly because he can link nearly any action into another one, has primed thrusters, can 1 time SLAM, and has nearly the health of a TIE Defender. The other I6's don't scare him as much because:

Wedge: ok dial and 1 action per turn. (see matchups v Luke. A good Wedge player avoids this endgame)

Soontir: fragile and bides his time. He typically links and thus cannot turnaround fast enough. (see matchups v Luke)

Vader: no native boost hampers the pursuit. Unlike Kylo, who needs 1 force to shenanigan, 1 charge starts his pre maneuver stuff, with the rest being dependent on remaining charges.

Fenn Rau: the guy specializes in dunking things in the joust, but can be left in the dust by things, especially when the reposition before moving (see matchups v Luke)

Like 1.0,the less skilled Kylo's will get thrashed by more forgiving lists, while the condescending opponents to a good Kylo will be stunned and frustrated. Now a kylo game with a good player on either side, that is a treat *proceeds to sip iocane powder-laden wine unsuspectingly*

1 minute ago, player3010587 said:

Aaaaand that's why you need an I6 "protector" of Kylo and not just a silly bid, just like in 1st edition, you needed to pack an PS10/11 protector. Poe is the biggest threat to Kylo mainly because he can link nearly any action into another one, has primed thrusters, can 1 time SLAM, and has nearly the health of a TIE Defender. The other I6's don't scare him as much because:

Wedge: ok dial and 1 action per turn. (see matchups v Luke. A good Wedge player avoids this endgame)

Soontir: fragile and bides his time. He typically links and thus cannot turnaround fast enough. (see matchups v Luke)

Vader: no native boost hampers the pursuit. Unlike Kylo, who needs 1 force to shenanigan, 1 charge starts his pre maneuver stuff, with the rest being dependent on remaining charges.

Fenn Rau: the guy specializes in dunking things in the joust, but can be left in the dust by things, especially when the reposition before moving (see matchups v Luke)

Like 1.0,the less skilled Kylo's will get thrashed by more forgiving lists, while the condescending opponents to a good Kylo will be stunned and frustrated. Now a Null game with a good player on either side, that is a treat *proceeds to sip iocane powder-laden wine unsuspectingly*

As I have outlined before, this kylo is signifcantly different (and better) than 1.0 kylo.

So... why must Kylo have an i6 protector?

Like, the "threat" from the opposing i6 basically is that it has to "free float" to even present a threat - if you're bringing wedge with a block of support, kylo will always know where wedge will be.

Further, not all i6s are the same. Kylo is far more afraid of fenn rau and vader than Wedge (and to a lesser extent, Poe), because they threaten to hit significantly harder. But again, they have to free-float, and if they do, then kylo has a few options: stick to the i6 like glue (kylo is FAR more manueverable, and can threaten blocks and flanking, even on an i6), or to go much faster to the rest of the list.

If that i6 is just 'escorting' the rest of the list, then, again, kylo knows where that i6 is, and the threat is greatly diminished.

5 minutes ago, player3010587 said:

Aaaaand that's why you need an I6 "protector" of Kylo and not just a silly bid, just like in 1st edition, you needed to pack an PS10/11 protector.

That wasn't true in 1e though - Kylo and a silly bid was alarmingly viable. You were most scared of Nym, most of the other ps10+ things you could mostly ignore.

Until Mr Janson got boost, F.

20 minutes ago, player3010587 said:

Aaaaand that's why you need an I6 "protector" of Kylo and not just a silly bid, just like in 1st edition, you needed to pack an PS10/11 protector. Poe is the biggest threat to Kylo mainly because he can link nearly any action into another one, has primed thrusters, can 1 time SLAM, and has nearly the health of a TIE Defender. The other I6's don't scare him as much because:

Wedge: ok dial and 1 action per turn. (see matchups v Luke. A good Wedge player avoids this endgame)

Soontir: fragile and bides his time. He typically links and thus cannot turnaround fast enough. (see matchups v Luke)

Vader: no native boost hampers the pursuit. Unlike Kylo, who needs 1 force to shenanigan, 1 charge starts his pre maneuver stuff, with the rest being dependent on remaining charges.

Fenn Rau: the guy specializes in dunking things in the joust, but can be left in the dust by things, especially when the reposition before moving (see matchups v Luke)

Like 1.0,the less skilled Kylo's will get thrashed by more forgiving lists, while the condescending opponents to a good Kylo will be stunned and frustrated. Now a kylo game with a good player on either side, that is a treat *proceeds to sip iocane powder-laden wine unsuspectingly*

you forgot about Han, Han, and Han.

2 hours ago, Biophysical said:

Uninronic Luke Gunner.

Quite possibly

Maybe also the inevitable switch to Slave I title, even before a points change?

51 minutes ago, Brunas said:

This has been funny to watch in particular. we, as a community, simultaneously hold the opinion that 2 die shots aren't good enough, but also that "arc-dodgers" aren't good enough because they pretty consistently take damage at range 3 from... 2 die shots.

We can't have it both ways!

I thought people have come around on 2-die shots, or at least to the extent that they can't be dismissed out of hand. I mean, if I'm Fenn with a focus and 5 green dice against a naked 2-die attack, I don't expect to take damage, but I sure do. #fiveblankgreenshappen

You guys might be right, but I know my local group will remain skeptical until we've played it ourselves. I'm cool with saying, "U RITE" if it comes to that. I hope it doesn't.

On the Aces taking damage from random shots, and 2 die ships being bad, there's a distinction you guys are not making

There is a massive difference between a 2 die ship (A pair of acads taken in as filler) and a 2 hit ship (Acads in a howl swarm)

If your 2 dice ship can't force that to be 2 hits over 80% of the time, they do suck **** at actually killing. Watching Wedge natty out of a couple of Acads in a joust is not fun. It's way less fun when it's Boba and he can actually laugh at 2 hit attacks as well.

Boba, Luke, etc. suppress 2 hit attacks as well as 2 die attacks.

4 hours ago, impspy said:

As long as Vader drops 18-20 points to compensate.

nobody said it couldn't be cheaper again at I6 lol

26 minutes ago, jokerkd said:

nobody said it couldn't be cheaper again at I6 lol

"Supernatural costs (InitiativeX4) points to take, unless you are i6, then it costs 10 because of reasons"

Then they put themselves in an awkward place when Da Maus demands they release an i6 Kylo with the subtitle "Supreme Leader" as part of Ep9 hype.

31 minutes ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

"Supernatural costs (InitiativeX4) points to take, unless you are i6, then it costs 10 because of reasons"

Then they put themselves in an awkward place when Da Maus demands they release an i6 Kylo with the subtitle "Supreme Leader" as part of Ep9 hype.

Only if Poe’s new Ride in 9 just slams everywhere... we can call him “rocket man”.