1 minute ago, Tlfj200 said:

What efficiency catches super primed kylo?

The kind that kills his friends and makes life hard enough that he can't get enough quality shots to catch up on points.

1 minute ago, Biophysical said:

The kind that kills his friends and makes life hard enough that he can't get enough quality shots to catch up on points.

Which is...?

3 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

Which is...?

4 T70s is probably what I'm trying first.

Rebel damage spreading probably can do it too. TIE Swarm too.

3 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

4 T70s is probably what I'm trying first.

(46) Blue Squadron Rookie
(0) Integrated S-foils
(3) Homing Missiles
Points 49

(46) Blue Squadron Rookie
(0) Integrated S-foils
(3) Homing Missiles
Points 49

(46) Blue Squadron Rookie
(0) Integrated S-foils
(3) Homing Missiles
Points 49

(50) Jaycris Tubbs
(0) Integrated S-foils
(3) Homing Missiles
Points 53

Total points: 200

This loadout?

3 minutes ago, Quack Shot said:

(46) Blue Squadron Rookie
(0) Integrated S-foils
(3) Homing Missiles
Points 49

(46) Blue Squadron Rookie
(0) Integrated S-foils
(3) Homing Missiles
Points 49

(46) Blue Squadron Rookie
(0) Integrated S-foils
(3) Homing Missiles
Points 49

(50) Jaycris Tubbs
(0) Integrated S-foils
(3) Homing Missiles
Points 53

Total points: 200

This loadout?

Leaning toward 4 Reds with Crack Shot. Also looking at 4 Blues with HLC or 3 Blacks with Crack Shot and Lulo as the 4th ship.

22 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

What efficiency catches super primed kylo?

Possibly nothing (if it can be done, @Biophysical will do it), but will he be a force enough to matter? There’s a lot of stuff in Hyperspace that can react to him and/or make no-fly zones.

5 minutes ago, gennataos said:

Possibly nothing (if it can be done, @Biophysical will do it), but will he be a force enough to matter? There’s a lot of stuff in Hyperspace that can react to him and/or make no-fly zones.

It's really less about catching than making sure he can't hurt you that bad without shots coming his way. Without 1.0 Autothrusters, his no-go zone is definitely bigger.

3 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

Without 1.0 Autothrusters, his no-go zone is definitely bigger.

This is why I dont think Kylo will be super popular.

Alot of Whisper players will make the switch.

But he still requires slightly more patience than I think people are interested in.

Side note:

This seems good ( 9 pts ).

2 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

This is why I dont think Kylo will be super popular.

Alot of Whisper players will make the switch.

But he still requires slightly more patience than I think people are interested in.

Ah, now I get it.

Everyone is just relying on not playing patient people!

now I see why people are dismissing kylo.

as for ‘no go’ zones - you have to places multiple arcs for it to be no-go. If you’re doing that, that diminishes the area that’s a ‘no-go’, making it easier to avoid.

if you spread arcs, he can withstand an occasional 3-die, single modded shot to get position behind or to the side of your list is fine.

Remeber, kylo with primed can still supernatural even after a red maneuver. He is NOT luke or vader.

7 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

Ah, now I get it.

 Everyone is just relying on not playing patient people!

now I see why people are dismissing kylo.

as for ‘no go’ zones - you have to places multiple arcs for it to be no-go. If you’re doing that, that diminishes the area that’s a ‘no-go’, making it easier to avoid.

if you spread arcs, he can withstand an occasional 3-die, single modded shot to get position behind or to the side of your list is fine.

Remeber, kylo with primed can still supernatural even after a red maneuver. He is NOT luke or vader.

Once a Kylo list shows up that is designed to joust itll get used more.

4 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

Ah, now I get it.

Everyone is just relying on not playing patient people!

now I see why people are dismissing kylo.

as for ‘no go’ zones - you have to places multiple arcs for it to be no-go. If you’re doing that, that diminishes the area that’s a ‘no-go’, making it easier to avoid.

if you spread arcs, he can withstand an occasional 3-die, single modded shot to get position behind or to the side of your list is fine.

Remeber, kylo with primed can still supernatural even after a red maneuver. He is NOT luke or vader.

Patient is fine, the game has finite time and I don't think the points he leaves after upgrades are enough for the quality of wingmen necessary. Maybe I'm wrong.

I don't care how maneuverable he is. He doesn't have Autothrusters or the title. He spends one Force to Supernatural. If he's not stressed, he gets another action to lock or Focus. If he's in any 3 dice single modded arc, he needs one defensive token. That leaves him a single modded shot for offense. That's if he has 2 Force and no stress. If he has 1 Force, he chooses between Supernatural or nodding dice with force. If he's stressed, he can be wherever he wants, but will be throwing a shot modified only by a single Force. That's a sad attack for 100+ points. That's not great for 50 points.

TL/DR, I don't think Kylo has the resources to be anywhere and also generate offense after an efficiency squad inevitably smokes his wingmen.

1 minute ago, Biophysical said:

Patient is fine, the game has finite time and I don't think the points he leaves after upgrades are enough for the quality of wingmen necessary. Maybe I'm wrong.

I don't care how maneuverable he is. He doesn't have Autothrusters or the title. He spends one Force to Supernatural. If he's not stressed, he gets another action to lock or Focus. If he's in any 3 dice single modded arc, he needs one defensive token. That leaves him a single modded shot for offense. That's if he has 2 Force and no stress. If he has 1 Force, he chooses between Supernatural or nodding dice with force. If he's stressed, he can be wherever he wants, but will be throwing a shot modified only by a single Force. That's a sad attack for 100+ points. That's not great for 50 points.

TL/DR, I don't think Kylo has the resources to be anywhere and also generate offense after an efficiency squad inevitably smokes his wingmen.

Ok.

3 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

Ok.

I might be wrong. Time will tell.

1 minute ago, Biophysical said:

I might be wrong. Time will tell.

It just feels like there’s a lot of headsim in here.

My statements aren’t headsim, that’s all. You don’t have to believe I’m right in that I could have played better (or they could have), but I’m just saying this is coming from a lot of games, is all (and not ‘local’ games).

1 minute ago, Tlfj200 said:

It just feels like there’s a lot of headsim in here.

My statements aren’t headsim, that’s all. You don’t have to believe I’m right in that I could have played better (or they could have), but I’m just saying this is coming from a lot of games, is all (and not ‘local’ games).

It is headsim, informed by 1.0 games vs Kylo and 2.0 games vs Vader and Luke (which are not, I understand, the same).

Just now, Biophysical said:

It is headsim, informed by 1.0 games vs Kylo and 2.0 games vs Vader and Luke (which are not, I understand, the same).

I just want to stress 2.0 primed kylo is SUPER different than luke and Vader.

also, 2.0 kylo is shockingly different than 1.0 kylo. The threat of either a double pre-dial move OR a pre AND post dial movement AND a ‘regular’ action (or 2x post dial movements and no action).

further, none of this shuts of supernatural thanks to primed.

😞

18 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

I just want to stress 2.0 primed kylo is SUPER different than luke and Vader.

also, 2.0 kylo is shockingly different than 1.0 kylo. The threat of either a double pre-dial move OR a pre AND post dial movement AND a ‘regular’ action (or 2x post dial movements and no action).

further, none of this shuts of supernatural thanks to primed.

😞

I'll get in on the table pretty soon and I'll see if my assessment changes.

Out of curiosity, who do you use for wingmates?

59 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

Out of curiosity, who do you use for wingmates?

Iv only tried Quickdraw & Scorch so far, but maybe Midnight+ is the way to go.

1 hour ago, Boom Owl said:

Once a Kylo list shows up that is designed to joust itll get used more.

So anything that has Quickdraw in it and a friend coordinating? The problem with trying to joust with the non-Kylo part of a list is that he--by design and endgame advantage--is pricey. It can be done, but requires a skillful pseudo-joust of good range control and Kylo playing Ducchess' game. We won't see it en masse until a top player does well with it, and then we lowly scrubs fail to replicate it.

But...Kylo with SNR, Trickshot Blackout, and a squad leader Null all fit in a list...Fun stuff, even if Blackout misses his torps or clusters.

1 hour ago, Tlfj200 said:

I just want to stress 2.0 primed kylo is SUPER different than luke and Vader.

also, 2.0 kylo is shockingly different than 1.0 kylo. The threat of either a double pre-dial move OR a pre AND post dial movement AND a ‘regular’ action (or 2x post dial movements and no action).

further, none of this shuts of supernatural thanks to primed.

😞

This man gets it. For only the cost of afterburners, you are not afraid of reds, linking off coordinate, laughing as you pick apart a Sloane swarm, or even just dialing a hard 2 and getting 3 actions that turn, or 4 if you count spending a force as a calculate or darkside.

Ok 2 test games with Prime Kylo . Yep, good. Makes you feel like Optimus Prime doing all those fancy moves.

This worked ok at 196.

Kylo's probably the single most positionable piece in the game, granted. Squad Leader Null even gives him *some* insurance from the likes of Poe (and maybe Vader in Hyperspace format). But all the resistance squads with I5s (besides Rey) that I'm seeing are bidding WAY deeper than 192 AND(Kylo, QD, OR(Scorch, SL Null)).

It looks to me like Kylo has enough of a vulnerability in just Poe. For data, my local have been smashing Kylo and Poe lists against each other for a couple weeks now, and Poe has won way more than he's lost. Kylo also hates SuperLuke, though in hyperspace you pay dearly for Rebels to bid lower than 185.

So I ultimately think that Kylo is highly *disruptive*, as in his particular set of skills can make certain matchups close to impossible, but he also has enough weaknesses (if they show up in the meta) that it could be risky to take him.

Kylo-Quick-Null

(82) Kylo Ren
(12) Supernatural Reflexes
(8) Primed Thrusters
Points 102

(45) "Quickdraw"
(10) Special Forces Gunner
(2) Fanatical
(3) Fire-Control System
Points 60

(31) "Null"
(4) Squad Leader
Points 35

Total points: 197

6 hours ago, Quack Shot said:

(46) Blue Squadron Rookie
(0) Integrated S-foils
(3) Homing Missiles
Points 49

(46) Blue Squadron Rookie
(0) Integrated S-foils
(3) Homing Missiles
Points 49

(46) Blue Squadron Rookie
(0) Integrated S-foils
(3) Homing Missiles
Points 49

(50) Jaycris Tubbs
(0) Integrated S-foils
(3) Homing Missiles
Points 53

Total points: 200

This loadout?

Sadly, the only reason this is scary to Kylo is Homing Missiles, which is comically underpriced.