29 minutes ago, Brunas said:

I do wonder how often the general forum populace wanders in here. PEOPLE WHO POST IN OTHER THREADS, CAN YOU HEAR ME?

There are other threads?

32 minutes ago, Brunas said:

I do wonder how often the general forum populace wanders in here. PEOPLE WHO POST IN OTHER THREADS, CAN YOU HEAR ME?

YOUR CRIES ARE HEARD, I READ THIS A LOT BUT RARELY POST

3 minutes ago, Transmogrifier said:

I've been thinking lately about whether giving players control over choosing player order via a bid is a good idea in the first place (and also creating benefits to bidding via the MOV rules). I realize that deep bids are often a symptom of other game balance problems (185 points of Imperials consistently beating 200 points of everything else is huge a red flag) but what about the direct effect of this rule? What if it were player order was always determined randomly at the start of the match? Or choice given to the player with lower MOV coming into the match? Or some other rule? What if unspent squad points didn't benefit you in determining MOV?

I know that with Kylo now in the most popular initiative bracket that I should bid or get curb-stomped, but I always refuse to bid. Else, what happens when those points don't come in handy? Inefficiency! At some point, I will face someone who would have moved last anyway should I have bid due to his immense bid, so why not prepare for it? Git gud with killboxes, blocks, and jukes. Plus, if you lose, it becomes more of a learning session. If you have perfect board state to react to, you will not be so perceptive of various tendencies of pilots and scenarios, let alone the absolute best position to work from and dodge out.

2 minutes ago, PaulRuddSays said:

There are other threads?

No - this is just a vicious rumor the lamestream media has started to try an discredit the Glorious KraytThread™.

Continue you required daily read of the Thread™, Комрад.

15 minutes ago, player3010587 said:

I know that with Kylo now in the most popular initiative bracket that I should bid or get curb-stomped, but I always refuse to bid. Else, what happens when those points don't come in handy? Inefficiency! At some point, I will face someone who would have moved last anyway should I have bid due to his immense bid, so why not prepare for it? Git gud with killboxes, blocks, and jukes. Plus, if you lose, it becomes more of a learning session. If you have perfect board state to react to, you will not be so perceptive of various tendencies of pilots and scenarios, let alone the absolute best position to work from and dodge out.

This is to simplistic.

Some lists benefit more from a bid than the next couple upgrades you could put on them.

Dont think of running a bid as compromising on your honor.

Your just purchasing a 10-15 pt Veteran Instincts 2.0 card that cant be destroyed in a game that has only 3-4 actual turrets.

Not all lists need it, but some benefit from it more than others ( Supernatural, Lock Ordinance, Advanced Sensors, Double Repo Fragile stuff, etc. ).

Killboxes are great but it can be just as effective to break them up into little pieces and parts as a win condition instead of creating them.

43 minutes ago, Brunas said:

Depends on where you live, I think. Parts of Europe were (and still are) heavy on some i4s as well. And by some I mostly mean Deathrain.

Everything has been consolidating to i5 over time though. As far as I know we didn't start so concentrated at i5, though I'd have to check early stuff like GSC.

I don't know about GSC, but this was the top16 of spanish nats, one of the first 2.0 premier event

TOP 16 SPAGNA

• Wedge Luke Sabine AP5
• Teroch Palob 4Lom Quad
• Soontir Redline Deathrain
• TIE Swarm 6 pezzi
• Boba Guri
• Boba Palob 4LOM
• Soontir Whisper Deathrain
• Deathrain Jonus 3xBomber
• Boba Guri L337
• Wedge Luke Uwing
• TIE Swarm 6 pezzi
• Boba Guri
• Soontir Redline Deathrain
• Wedge Luke Braylen
• Foslo Jendon 2xGunboat
• Soontir Whisper Redline

Only 2 players lacked a ps 5 pilots.

UKTC, another pretty early premier event, had only 5 lists from the 21 of the the 7 teams that ended up 4-1 or better, without a ps 5 (they were 2 drea swarms, 1 Jonus deathrain bombers, 1 4xphantoms and the last one had Wedge)

I think you are just misremembering: 2nd edition was about ps 5 from the start.

Hey, someone claimed before they could get custom sleeves for cheap.

We're still only seeing bulk orders of like 5000+ (though, technically cheap per sleeve).

Where's the cheap custom sleeves?

1 hour ago, Transmogrifier said:

... other game balance problems (185 points of Imperials consistently beating 200 points of everything else is huge a red flag) ...What if player order was always determined randomly at the start of the match? Or choice given to the player with lower MOV coming into the match? Or some other rule? What if unspent squad points didn't benefit you in determining MOV?

Some nice thoughts, probably worth a look by people with decision-making power.

Personally, I think randomized player initiative would just make people whine in about "initiative variance".

There are already very few player decisions in turn zero... I'd personally not want to lose any more.

While we are asking for cheap **** mass produced, where can I get plastic cards (credit-card esque thickness) in US poker?

Every place I see with plastic cards is in business card or credit card size.

1 hour ago, Transmogrifier said:

(185 points of Imperials consistently beating 200 points of everything else is huge a red flag)

doesn't look like anything to me.

1 hour ago, Transmogrifier said:

I've been thinking lately about whether giving players control over choosing player order via a bid is a good idea in the first place (and also creating benefits to bidding via the MOV rules). I realize that deep bids are often a symptom of other game balance problems (185 points of Imperials consistently beating 200 points of everything else is huge a red flag) but what about the direct effect of this rule? What if player order was always determined randomly at the start of the match? Or choice given to the player with lower MOV coming into the match? Or some other rule? What if unspent squad points didn't benefit you in determining MOV?

Bids and the mechanic is fine. We won't be talking about this in January if the Devs are good at balancing. They gave themselves a way to fix this stuff.

1 hour ago, Sunitsa said:

I think you are just misremembering: 2nd edition was about ps 5 from the start.

yeah, pretty much.

3 minutes ago, Kelvan said:

Bids and the mechanic is fine. We won't be talking about this in January is the Devs are good at balancing. They gave themselves a way to fix this stuff.

GO BACK TO A-WINGS! WHISPER APOLOGIST KELVAN IS A TERRIBLE THING TO BEHOLD!

2 minutes ago, jagsba said:

GO BACK TO A-WINGS! WHISPER APOLOGIST KELVAN IS A TERRIBLE THING TO BEHOLD!

It took me 5 years to learn that people think you're good when you play with perfect board knowledge.

"What a brilliant move to barrel roll boost to get out of arc."

2 hours ago, Brunas said:

I do wonder how often the general forum populace wanders in here. PEOPLE WHO POST IN OTHER THREADS, CAN YOU HEAR ME?

Upon further reflection, I realized that of course there are other threads. You can’t have a forum with just one thread!

It’s Krayt threads all the way down.

Just now, Kelvan said:

It took me 5 years to learn that people think you're good when you play with perfect board knowledge.

"What a brilliant move to barrel roll boost to get out of arc."

S K I L L G A M E

5 minutes ago, Kelvan said:

Bids and the mechanic is fine. We won't be talking about this in January is the Devs are good at balancing. They gave themselves a way to fix this stuff.

I agree that other imbalances magnify the issue, but I still think it's worth examining some of these mechanics that impact tournament play fairly dramatically while existing outside of the game-proper. I also am not a fan of how the MOV rules create incentives to protect points rather than to engage, but I don't have a fully-baked solution to either of these things that frustrate me. I'm curious if other people are perceiving these same things to be a problem and if they have ideas on what could alter the incentive structure we currently have.

3 hours ago, Brunas said:

I do wonder how often the general forum populace wanders in here. PEOPLE WHO POST IN OTHER THREADS, CAN YOU HEAR ME?

wut

@jagsba what is happening in that chart grid thing

4 hours ago, Brunas said:

I do wonder how often the general forum populace wanders in here. PEOPLE WHO POST IN OTHER THREADS, CAN YOU HEAR ME?

This thread is to slow most the time going days at times to get 25 replies; it is though very informative. I'll let all those "general forum populance" that you guys feel neglected and want more attention so to post in here more often. K bye...

3 hours ago, Sunitsa said:

I don't know about GSC, but this was the top16 of spanish nats, one of the first 2.0 premier event

TOP 16 SPAGNA

• Wedge Luke Sabine AP5
• Teroch Palob 4Lom Quad
• Soontir Redline Deathrain
• TIE Swarm 6 pezzi
• Boba Guri
• Boba Palob 4LOM
• Soontir Whisper Deathrain
• Deathrain Jonus 3xBomber
• Boba Guri L337
• Wedge Luke Uwing
• TIE Swarm 6 pezzi
• Boba Guri
• Soontir Redline Deathrain
• Wedge Luke Braylen
• Foslo Jendon 2xGunboat
• Soontir Whisper Redline

Only 2 players lacked a ps 5 pilots.

UKTC, another pretty early premier event, had only 5 lists from the 21 of the the 7 teams that ended up 4-1 or better, without a ps 5 (they were 2 drea swarms, 1 Jonus deathrain bombers, 1 4xphantoms and the last one had Wedge)

I think you are just misremembering: 2nd edition was about ps 5 from the start.

2 hours ago, jagsba said:

yeah, pretty much.

Aggregate

Aggregate

Aggregate

Coruscant

Coruscant

GSC 2018

GSC 2018

Crossroads 3

Crossroads 3

Spanish Nationals 2018

Spanish Nationals 2018

Nordics 2018

Nordics 2018

Mynock Open 2018

Mynock Open 2018

Slovak Nationals 2018

Slovak Nationals 2018

Nerfherder 3

Nerfherder 3

Auzzie Nats

Auzzie Nats

Cut

Cut Equiv

Swiss

Cut

Swiss

Cut

Swiss

Cut

Swiss

Cut

Swiss

Cut

Swiss

Cut

Swiss

Cut

Swiss

Cut

Swiss

Cut

Swiss

%lists with i5

78.77%

78.33%

73.45%

75.00%

68.29%

62.50%

59.32%

81.25%

76.54%

81.25%

78.54%

76.47%

71.72%

76.47%

71.88%

87.50%

74.19%

81.25%

73.48%

81.25%

75.81%

I think both of these are misleading. Saying at 75-80% of lists had at least one i5 is very different from saying EVERY list is running almost exclusively i5+ ships, with a few outliers.

@Sunitsa that's true for Spain, but crossroads tells a different story (much smaller event): http://listfortress.com/tournaments/12. I'd have to go check GSP, but I don't remember huge i5 dominance there.

2 hours ago, jagsba said:

GO BACK TO A-WINGS! WHISPER APOLOGIST KELVAN IS A TERRIBLE THING TO BEHOLD!

for serious though, you were right before.

27 minutes ago, catachanninja said:

@jagsba what is happening in that chart grid thing

12 minutes ago, Brunas said:

I think both of these are misleading. Saying at 75-80% of lists had at least one i5 is very different from saying EVERY list is running almost exclusively i5+ ships, with a few outliers.

Chris is right, it's a the percent of lists that have at least one i5 ship in them. It was originally meant as a reference for thinking about the i5 bid vs running an i6. I agree that its a very different metric from if lists are running exclusively i5+, but it does say that wedge's i6 is probably going to get him shooting before something that's i5.

3 hours ago, Sunitsa said:

I don't know about GSC, but this was the top16 of spanish nats, one of the first 2.0 premier event

TOP 16 SPAGNA

• Foslo Jendon 2x Gunboat!

4 hours ago, Brunas said:

I do wonder how often the general forum populace wanders in here.

All the time.

2 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:

All the time.

PANIC

SHUT IT DOWN, THEY KNOW