@catachanninja discusses Kurt Warner winning an against all odds super bowl, then thinks **** Vermeil never coached a super bowl winning team.

22 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

@catachanninja discusses Kurt Warner winning an against all odds super bowl, then thinks **** Vermeil never coached a super bowl winning team.

Remember when the NFL wasnt a joke and tackling was allowed?

15 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Remember when the NFL wasnt a joke and tackling was allowed?

Half the players lucky enough still to be alive from that era don't remember it anymore.

41 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

@catachanninja discusses Kurt Warner winning an against all odds super bowl, then thinks **** Vermeil never coached a super bowl winning team.

Good God, i don't know what was happening to my brain. I think i flipped him and schottenheimer. My brain has not been gud lately

All I can think of after seeing all the imperial stuff compared to the rebel stuff is how much cooler the imperial stuff looks.

Is that a preference thing? Is anyone looking at the rebel stuff and thinking HYPE?

1 minute ago, catachanninja said:

Good God, i don't know what was happening to my brain. I think i flipped him and schottenheimer. My brain has not been gud lately

Sportfact better.

Although I absolutely understand purging information about the NFL from one's brain.

The Kurt Warner sorry is one of the genuinely decent stories from the past 2 decades, though.

The Rebel unboxing reminded me of why I always go back and forth on Rebels - I love the ship designs but I hate the faction themes. 1.0 Imperials really didn't have enough good crew or swarm support and now they have both in 2.0 and I'm 100% here for it.

1 minute ago, Brunas said:

All I can think of after seeing all the imperial stuff compared to the rebel stuff is how much cooler the imperial stuff looks.

Is that a preference thing? Is anyone looking at the rebel stuff and thinking HYPE?

I'm definitely an Imperial guy, but the stuff I like about Rebels are the workhorse starfighters, and those aren't terribly inspiring. Look at the TIE Fighter Pilots. For the most part it's "so something kinda hard, get a big bonus". Rebels are "do nothing, get some bonus stuff". I know which one gets me interested.

6 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

I'm definitely an Imperial guy, but the stuff I like about Rebels are the workhorse starfighters, and those aren't terribly inspiring. Look at the TIE Fighter Pilots. For the most part it's "so something kinda hard, get a big bonus". Rebels are "do nothing, get some bonus stuff". I know which one gets me interested. 

Hey now, I did all of those one forwards without bumping. I EARNED those actions and passive abilities for completing my maneuver.

27 minutes ago, Brunas said:

All I can think of after seeing all the imperial stuff compared to the rebel stuff is how much cooler the imperial stuff looks.

Is that a preference thing? Is anyone looking at the rebel stuff and thinking HYPE?

Correct

34 minutes ago, Brunas said:

All I can think of after seeing all the imperial stuff compared to the rebel stuff is how much cooler the imperial stuff looks.

Is that a preference thing? Is anyone looking at the rebel stuff and thinking HYPE?

I think my inclination has worn down from a heavy rebel preference to slight rebel preference over time, but man i really don't care about the rebel stuff that's been revealed. The named b wings seem cool but not "woah" so there might be a rebel salad with them, but man is the faction blah. I'll be curious to see the scum box and find our if ffg hates the rebels or loves the imperials.

42 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

I'm definitely an Imperial guy, but the stuff I like about Rebels are the workhorse starfighters, and those aren't terribly inspiring. Look at the TIE Fighter Pilots. For the most part it's "so something kinda hard, get a big bonus". Rebels are "do nothing, get some bonus stuff". I know which one gets me interested.

I agree that the new Rebel stuff isnt as cool as Imperials from what we have seen so far. But it has to be said that 2.0 Rebels are WAY cooler than they were in 1.0

I don't think people generally realize how incredibly bad *** 2.0 Luke is. He can barrel roll and tallon roll way more than you would expect. He can supernatural like the crazy jedi he is and do his best BB8 poe impression. I think we can all agree BB8 Poe is fun and there are pieces of that in 2.0 Luke. He also has basically 100% up time on dice modification. He can shoot proton torps and nuke stuff. He can do just about everything besides drop a bomb. And then you add to it the fact that A-Wings might not be completely terrible anymore, B-Wings are an unkown quantity....and Wedge gets to play the game?!?! Its even possible to use a Y-Wing for something other than a 3 Bank and a TLT.

Imperials no question look cooler on paper still.

But Rebels don't look like they are just the Miranda or FSR faction anymore. There are real lists to enjoy buried in there somewhere, not all based on degenerate regen nonsense and boring hyper defense teamwork mechanics ( Or maybe I am completely wrong on this and Gonk. R2, and R2D2 will still be stapled to everything...**** they probably will...). Fat Turret + Ace is still out there with Han and Dash but I dont see that being the most effective rebel list just based on the fact that those 120+ pt Big Bases take so much damage so quickly now as opposed to basically just being fat soontir like they were in 1.0.

No one is prepared for such a high degree of consequences.

The Rebel faction is more interesting to me now than it ever was in 1.0, though it was such a ridiculously low bar to improve upon. Sill not as appealing as Darth Vader, Soontir, Whisper/Echo, Tie Fighters, and Tie Freaking Silencers but certainly more to be excited about than ever before. If I want to run a mini swarm + ace I am still looking at Imperials. But whose to say Luke or Wedge + 4 A-Wings wont be decent?

In the end I imagine alot of players are looking at the Rebel Conversion kit through the eyes of what they expect the Resistance faction to be which is why its probably a little disappointing with individual pieces not as appealing or exciting as they could be.

Oh, I agree, Rebels are way cooler than they were in 1.0. I'll even argue that the aspect of the faction that appeals to me is much better than it was in 1.0. I'm just saying if there were a bunch of, say, blue squadron pilots that had similar sorts of abilities to TIE Fighter Pilots, I'd be all in. Obviously a lot of those would be too powerful on an X-wing, I'm just saying it would be awesome to have that kind of requirement/reward system.

40 minutes ago, catachanninja said:

I think my inclination has worn down from a heavy rebel preference to slight rebel preference over time, but man i really don't care about the rebel stuff that's been revealed. The named b wings seem cool but not "woah" so there might be a rebel salad with them, but man is the faction blah. I'll be curious to see the scum box and find our if ffg hates the rebels or loves the imperials.

I was pretty disappointed the B-wings didn't punch out as a serious heavy fighter. I was ready for a crap dial, but something like a conditional red reinforce on the front only to really emphasize the heavy assault fighter nature of the ship. As is, they're still really close to the X-wing at the base chassis level, which means one is almost guaranteed to be suboptimal.

8 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

I was pretty disappointed the B-wings didn't punch out as a serious heavy fighter. I was ready for a crap dial, but something like a conditional red reinforce on the front only to really emphasize the heavy assault fighter nature of the ship. As is, they're still really close to the X-wing at the base chassis level, which means one is almost guaranteed to be suboptimal.

I think the barrel roll linked focus on the Bs (price dependent) makes them much more interesting than Xs. Hopefully they're priced reasonably, but I'm not sure which is even better and like you said there's no way they're equally valuable.

Just dumb random brainstorming, but imagine Blue Squadron as presented in Rogue One. There's a mix of fighters led by "results oriented" General Merrick.

What if he had an ability like "You may soend a charge to allow a friendly ships at range 0-3 to gain a stress and boost after performing a Target Lock action".

(with wording cleaned up to avoid broken combos). This is essentially giving X ships per turn a linked target lock, which is a "free" ability that comes with a cost if stress and maybe having to get close to the enemy while taking no defensive actions. It's interesting, to me, at least. It's an option, not a freebie.

Overall, I wish there was more theme baked into squads with squad leaders of the various colors having squad boosting abilities to like colored squad mates.

24 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

I was pretty disappointed the B-wings didn't punch out as a serious heavy fighter. I was ready for a crap dial, but something like a conditional red reinforce on the front only to really emphasize the heavy assault fighter nature of the ship. As is, they're still really close to the X-wing at the base chassis level, which means one is almost guaranteed to be suboptimal.

14 minutes ago, Brunas said:

I think the barrel roll linked focus on the Bs (price dependent) makes them much more interesting than Xs. Hopefully they're priced reasonably, but I'm not sure which is even better and like you said there's no way they're equally valuable.

It's the named ones that I'm actually excited for. Throw advanced sensors on them and they can be knife fighting gods. All the red on those dials is a feature. Once points are available I'll be working hard on a rebel mid range squad ala fsr1. Rebels are gonna have to be the detroit pistons from the 00s if they wanna win i suspect

Do we know the TAP and Lambda dials for 2.0?

I know Vader gets a 1 straight and t-rolls but is otherwise similar enough.

6 minutes ago, catachanninja said:

It's the named ones that I'm actually excited for. Throw advanced sensors on them and they can be knife fighting gods. All the red on those dials is a feature. Once points are available I'll be working hard on a rebel mid range squad ala fsr1. Rebels are gonna have to be the detroit pistons from the 00s if they wanna win i suspect

Rebel formation flying makes exactly 0 sense to me. The only reason it ever worked in first edition is because of massively unfair things like r3a2, Biggs, or Low, which are either toned down massively or don't exist anymore. Like FSR1 stood a chance against aces because r3a2 braylen, but without r3a2 why would all of this stuff not just crumble to the first supernatural luke or vader to show up?

The entire point of rebel dogfighty ships that want to trade shots should be NOT formation flying

1 hour ago, Boom Owl said:

I agree that the new Rebel stuff isnt as cool as Imperials from what we have seen so far. But it has to be said that 2.0 Rebels are WAY cooler than they were in 1.0

I don't think people generally realize how incredibly bad *** 2.0 Luke is. He can barrel roll and tallon roll way more than you would expect. He can supernatural like the crazy jedi he is and do his best BB8 poe impression. I think we can all agree BB8 Poe is fun and there are pieces of that in 2.0 Luke. He also has basically 100% up time on dice modification. He can shoot proton torps and nuke stuff. He can do just about everything besides drop a bomb. And then you add to it the fact that A-Wings might not be completely terrible anymore, B-Wings are an unkown quantity....and Wedge gets to play the game?!?! Its even possible to use a Y-Wing for something other than a 3 Bank and a TLT.

Imperials no question look cooler on paper still.

But Rebels don't look like they are just the Miranda or FSR faction anymore. There are real lists to enjoy buried in there somewhere, not all based on degenerate regen nonsense and boring hyper defense teamwork mechanics ( Or maybe I am completely wrong on this and Gonk. R2, and R2D2 will still be stapled to everything...**** they probably will...). Fat Turret + Ace is still out there with Han and Dash but I dont see that being the most effective rebel list just based on the fact that those 120+ pt Big Bases take so much damage so quickly now as opposed to basically just being fat soontir like they were in 1.0.

No one is prepared for such a high degree of consequences.

The Rebel faction is more interesting to me now than it ever was in 1.0, though it was such a ridiculously low bar to improve upon. Sill not as appealing as Darth Vader, Soontir, Whisper/Echo, Tie Fighters, and Tie Freaking Silencers but certainly more to be excited about than ever before. If I want to run a mini swarm + ace I am still looking at Imperials. But whose to say Luke or Wedge + 4 A-Wings wont be decent?

In the end I imagine alot of players are looking at the Rebel Conversion kit through the eyes of what they expect the Resistance faction to be which is why its probably a little disappointing with individual pieces not as appealing or exciting as they could be.

I am pretty excited about Rebels. U-Wings look usable, there is some fun synergy, Luke looks awesome, and I am looking forward to playing 2.0 Dash. Honestly it all looks awesome and each faction scratches a different itch for me.

13 minutes ago, Brunas said:

Rebel formation flying makes exactly 0 sense to me. The only reason it ever worked in first edition is because of massively unfair things like r3a2, Biggs, or Low, which are either toned down massively or don't exist anymore. Like FSR1 stood a chance against aces because r3a2 braylen, but without r3a2 why would all of this stuff not just crumble to the first supernatural luke or vader to show up?

The entire point of rebel dogfighty ships that want to trade shots should be NOT formation flying

self quoting to elaborate:

Rebel squad that looks cool and obviously you'd have to be a moron to play in formation:

Rookie Pilot — X-Wing 21
Renegade Refit -2
Flight-Assist Astromech 1
Ship Total: 20

Rookie Pilot — X-Wing 21
Renegade Refit -2
Flight-Assist Astromech 1
Ship Total: 20

Rookie Pilot — X-Wing 21
Renegade Refit -2
Flight-Assist Astromech 1
Ship Total: 20

Gold Squadron Pilot — Y-Wing 18
Autoblaster Turret 2
Ship Total: 20

Gold Squadron Pilot — Y-Wing 18
Autoblaster Turret 2
Ship Total: 20

Rebel squad that looks miserable and unfun and you just play in formation and wait to collect your by default win:

Jess Pava — T-70 X-Wing 25
R2-D6 1
Selflessness 1
Ship Total: 27

Captain Rex — TIE Fighter 14
Ship Total: 14

Lowhhrick — Auzituck Gunship 28
Draw Their Fire 1
R2-D2 (Crew) 4
Tactician 2
Ship Total: 35

Biggs Darklighter — X-Wing 25
Renegade Refit -2
R4-D6 1
Servomotor S-Foils 0
Ship Total: 24

9 minutes ago, Brunas said:

Rebel squad that looks miserable and unfun and you just play in formation and wait to collect your by default win:

Jess Pava — T-70 X-Wing 25
R2-D6 1
Selflessness 1
Ship Total: 27

Captain Rex — TIE Fighter 14
Ship Total: 14

Lowhhrick — Auzituck Gunship 28
Draw Their Fire 1
R2-D2 (Crew) 4
Tactician 2
Ship Total: 35

Biggs Darklighter — X-Wing 25
Renegade Refit -2
R4-D6 1
Servomotor S-Foils 0
Ship Total: 24

But what if Biggs was cheaper, Jess didn't need to hold Selflessness and Ezra could replace Rex?

Le Miserable. FAA was my original default, but now thinking about R4-D6 makes the decision of trying to nuke the selflessness carrier less desirable.

26 minutes ago, Brunas said:

Rebel formation flying makes exactly 0 sense to me. The only reason it ever worked in first edition is because of massively unfair things like r3a2, Biggs, or Low, which are either toned down massively or don't exist anymore. Like FSR1 stood a chance against aces because r3a2 braylen, but without r3a2 why would all of this stuff not just crumble to the first supernatural luke or vader to show up?

The entire point of rebel dogfighty ships that want to trade shots should be NOT formation flying

I think we almost know enough now to just out right test this in 2.0Z Basically make the worst case FSR 2.0 and see if its degenerate enough to handle a few squads.

I suspect without the stuff you mentioned being top tier ( particularly re-enforce) it will lean alot on Rebel Fenns ability and Stress which is neutered by Force users anyway.

After the Biggs nerf we never saw a FSR equivalent without Lowhrick and Lowhrick got nerfed hard in 2nd edition.

Im sure there will be a strong rebel formation at some point but i dont know how it could be better than Iden.

@Brunas as someone who plays all five factions and purposely plays whichever one other people aren't (at an FLGS full of Imperial fanboys and some scum-only players), yes, the most fun Rebel squads don't fly in tight formation. Especially of late, there's lots of fun Rebel squads that fly like Imperial squads. The problem is that very few Rebel players are courageous enough to even try them.

@Boom Owl @catachanninja @Brunas @everyone, As much as I'd love to talk about Real X-Wing (TM), I'm afraid without the app and points, we can't draw any really meaningful conclusions. Recall that in Fake X-Wing, Palpatine cost 8 points and took up 2 slots, Tarkin cost 6 points and was limited to Fake-Armada X-Wing, and Sabine only cost 2. So all these Imperial crew and aces look cool right now, but we really don't know if they're viable until we know what they cost.