I left that Kong in there on purposes.

6 minutes ago, Velvetelvis said:

2.0 will favor whoever picks one list... any list and sticks with it for the Kong haul.

Learning how to play Palpaces definitively helped those players for a long, long time

I agree, even if I'm not technically supposed to.

I dont know what my ONE LIST will be, but based on past experience and the available information on what's coming, I am 3-3 % certain it will be defender based.

On 6/25/2018 at 9:06 PM, Brunas said:

Two homings do 2 damage unless they're an idiot. More importantly, in following turns those Zs still have those target locks - they can kturn, or 2 turn roll, or whatever and do it again the next turn. There's a 94% the torps have to use the lock on offense, so now they need to relock to shoot the same target. 1.0 points that rookie would be 25, those Zs would be 26 for both. I'd take the Zs without a second thought.

I agree with the general logic here, but there might be some cases in which it makes sense to not just take the one damage. If you have 4 defense dice (obstructed) +token and they only have the lock for instance.

But possibly more interestingly, if it's 4 reds + lock vs. 3 greens + evade, you're very close to 1.0 avg damage: http://xwing.gateofstorms.net/2/multi/?d=AyAAAAAAAAA&a1=QwAAAAAAAAA. As you note, the attack is going to basically always have to spend the lock, so depending on relative initiative values and positioning, it might make sense to effectively "trade tokens" (i.e. force the attacker to spend the lock). Of course you're taking a higher variance option (could roll well and dodge it entirely ~35% of the time or roll poorly and take >1 damage ~32% of the time) but depending on how scary a crit is in a given situation (i.e. shielded or not) it could be reasonable.

These are the sorts of decisions that - in addition to the required head math - making homings really interesting to me, even if the default defender option is usually to just take the 1 damage.

7 hours ago, gennataos said:

Did they fly it together and let you jam everything? I'm starting to think if someone is going X-Wing heavy, you want crack zealots and a couple of the named ones (definitely Wes, dunno if it's Wedge or Luke). I also don't know if any of them will be any good.

He had two rookies, Biggs and Tarn with R7 and bandit Z with tracers. He lined up in 2 x 3 formation in top left facing down, I placed bottom right and faced up. I went up the board slow on my first move, he did a 4 forward, I went slow again, he did a 4 forward. Next turn he k-turned them all and I started cutting in. A turn later I caught the Z on an island and burned him down before he got a shot. Brought Vader in on a slow flanking bank and he went to work on Biggs. Quiz was just a pest and drew shots away from vader. The reaper did very little. I had one turn that I jammed some focus tokens. Otherwise I played way too cagey with Vermeil. Vader pretty much solo'd that list. Optomized Prototype + ATC was murderous to X-wings with the ability to dodge out of arcs.

5 hours ago, Velvetelvis said:

I agree, even if I'm not technically supposed to.

I dont know what my ONE LIST will be, but based on past experience and the available information on what's coming, I am 3-3 % certain it will be defender based.

Im looking at...

1. 2x Force User Prockets + Thing

2. Ace + Mini Swarm

3. Support + Mini Swarm

Becoming "good" at Prockets is definitely something that interests me.

I know we dont know anything yet but the above archetypes are what I will focus on if they are decent.

With two games in using Vermeil + Krennic I've got some thoughts.

1) Optimized prototype is terrifying. Oh there's a defender at range 3, behind a rock and a stack of tokens? **** it. Optimize the shield! But the real terror comes in the form of the mirror. Quiz was *NOT* happy with a optimized Ryad that just laughed at his stack of tokens and autothrusters. I think a mirror match with a more tanky prototype is the worst matchup. Stress bunker would probably be next most feared.

2) I'm still heavily considering vectored thrusters on Vermeil. 1 bank + 1 turn plus BR puts you into some pretty funky positions.

3) 1 bank AA + 1 sloop is dank. Doing the same in 2.0 is going to be much tougher with the bigger base.

4) Reapers + Ace probably won't like stress heavy lists.

5) I played Vermeil way too cagey. He needs to get in there and punch before he gets burned down.

6) I have a store championship this weekend and have *NO* clue what to fly or what to expect.

50 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

1. 2x Force User Prockets + Thing

 2. Ace + Mini Swarm

Stop, I can only get so...

Especially the two force users!

58 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

1. 2x Force User Prockets + Thing

Please clap.

This will be one of my go-to's at the start.

53 minutes ago, viedit said:

With two games in using Vermeil + Krennic I've got some thoughts.

1) Optimized prototype is terrifying. Oh there's a defender at range 3, behind a rock and a stack of tokens? **** it. Optimize the shield! But the real terror comes in the form of the mirror. Quiz was *NOT* happy with a optimized Ryad that just laughed at his stack of tokens and autothrusters. I think a mirror match with a more tanky prototype is the worst matchup. Stress bunker would probably be next most feared.

The best ship for the mirror is a really interesting question. Fel seems initially strongest to me, because he has so many tokens that Jam does less to him, and he's the least reliant on shields. At the same time, someone more expensive seems valuable because you want them in the endgame to win on points. That would be Defenders, but they don't necessarily have the maneuverability to keep themselves going on the absence of their tokens, although they do have hit points.

Is it finally time for my beloved Rexler Brath to shine? He's ace-ish PS, can pile a lot of points on himself, has good token free offense with Expertise, and has the HP to sustain fire while tokens are gone. He's just PS8.

https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Galactic Empire&d=v4!s!292:27,262,266:63:31:;71:220,-1,-1:33:17:;295:260,-1:63:-1:&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

Alright so i thought about 1.0 for about 2 days and now i am already bored of it since the Tie Reaper has become a solved meta and isnt even good anymore. It had a nice run.

So back to 2.0 speculation...

Will most good players dismiss prockets as to unforgiving and situational for the competitive scene?

Are prockets already bad or suboptimal?

Their fun factor and reward factor seems high but are they basically 2.0 Cruise Missiles? Really good in spots when played well but ultimately incorrect?

Just now, Boom Owl said:

Alright so i thought about 1.0 for about 2 days and now i am already bored of it since the Tie Reaper has become a solved meta and isnt even good anymore. It had a nice run.

So back to 2.0 speculation...

Will most good players dismiss prockets as to unforgiving and situational for the competitive scene?

Are prockets already bad or suboptimal?

Their fun factor and reward factor seems high but are they basically 2.0 Cruise Missiles? Really good in spots when played well but ultimately incorrect?

I expect they are a lot like 1.0 cruise. Area denial and forcing actions to avoid them. That makes them good, given appropriate points.

My only real problem with Fel is that he's still vulnerable to bombs. PS10 Nym is still in the meta and scares the crap out me even with a shield on him. And god help you should you match up to that firestorm special list. I saw a double reaper (palp on one, Krennic on other) + Lone Wolf, Stealth Device X/7 Ryad. Good grief have fun punching through that without an OP ship of your own.

And can we take a second here and recognize the troll game of FFG. They literally gave this thing the acronym of "OP".

1 hour ago, viedit said:

He had two rookies, Biggs and Tarn with R7 and bandit Z with tracers. He lined up in 2 x 3 formation in top left facing down, I placed bottom right and faced up. I went up the board slow on my first move, he did a 4 forward, I went slow again, he did a 4 forward. Next turn he k-turned them all and I started cutting in. A turn later I caught the Z on an island and burned him down before he got a shot. Brought Vader in on a slow flanking bank and he went to work on Biggs. Quiz was just a pest and drew shots away from vader. The reaper did very little. I had one turn that I jammed some focus tokens. Otherwise I played way too cagey with Vermeil. Vader pretty much solo'd that list. Optomized Prototype + ATC was murderous to X-wings with the ability to dodge out of arcs.

Ahh...I'd argue they didn't play it well, but I also think the tracer Z is a bit of a trap and convinces the swarm player they have to fly in formation. Regardless, taking out one of those 5-ship lists in time is still an accomplishment, cuz they usually take a while.

5 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Their fun factor and reward factor seems high but are they basically 2.0 Cruise Missiles? Really good in spots when played well but ultimately incorrect?

Fite me!

6 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

I expect they are a lot like 1.0 cruise. Area denial and forcing actions to avoid them. That makes them good, given appropriate points.

Thats kinda what I am hoping.

I spent so much time with Cruise Missiles in 1.0, was basically all I ever used competitively.

I still really like the way they make your opponent almost as predictable as they could make me.

Prockets do feel similar in that way. Where you can somewhat deny tokens when your opponent ends up having to reposition instead.

Oddly enough if one were to get "good" at prockets and bullseye...if thats even possible...there might be slightly less counterplay than there is against cruise.

2 minutes ago, viedit said:

My only real problem with Fel is that he's still vulnerable to bombs. PS10 Nym is still in the meta and scares the crap out me even with a shield on him. And god help you should you match up to that firestorm special list. I saw a double reaper (palp on one, Krennic on other) + Lone Wolf, Stealth Device X/7 Ryad. Good grief have fun punching through that without an OP ship of your own.

And can we take a second here and recognize the troll game of FFG. They literally gave this thing the acronym of "OP".

Nym is a lot less scary without a target lock. It's still tough with the bombs, but I think it's more manageable.

The Ryad one, ideally, should use OP to strip shields, then start jamming to get rid of tokens. She's still tough, but a lot less tough.

3 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Fite me!

I mean we did conclude that all of our cruise missiles should always just have been palp in 1.0 right?

And while I am rambling....holy **** do big base ships in 2.0 not like getting hit with prockets. Go home Han. Please Boost.

1 minute ago, Boom Owl said:

I mean we did conclude that all of our cruise missiles should always just have been palp in 1.0 right?

Shhh!!!

...the truth hurts...

My hope is that those procket carriers will get as close to the top lists as our cruise/harpoon lists did. That‘s good enough for me

7 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Shhh!!!

...the truth hurts...

My hope is that those procket carriers will get as close to the top lists as our cruise/harpoon lists did. That‘s good enough for me

The one concern I have with Prockets is that they still require a focus?

This really limits how much I can abuse a force users inherent focus ability with them, since I cant just Target Lock and almost fully modify every time.

And of course as someone mentioned already you really have to ask yourself if one 5 dice shot is better value than a 3-4 dice shot with multiple charges over the course of a game.

Everything basically having reload now is a serious game changer.

I feel like Prockets could be semi cheap simply because they only have 1 charge compared to other missiles.

One other thing of note, it now makes a lot more sense why they changed the Prototype rules in 2.0. With half points for small base, you could snipe away half points on 100 point defender without ever landing a real hit on it. The condition is a lot more situational.

20 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

And of course as someone mentioned already you really have to ask yourself if one 5 dice shot is better value than a 3-4 dice shot with multiple charges over the course of a game.

I think players tend to overestimate how many good ordnance shot opportunities they will get in a game/how much time there will be between those shot opportunities. 3 Concussion Missile shots per game seems optimistic for most missile platforms. I wouldn't hesitate to take the front-loaded good shot over the "efficiency" option, assuming your chosen missile platform has the capabilities to get the Proton Rockets lined up semi regularly.

13 minutes ago, Transmogrifier said:

I think players tend to overestimate how many good ordnance shot opportunities they will get in a game/how much time there will be between those shot opportunities. 3 Concussion Missile shots per game seems optimistic for most missile platforms. I wouldn't hesitate to take the front-loaded good shot over the "efficiency" option, assuming your chosen missile platform has the capabilities to get the Proton Rockets lined up semi regularly.

Probably right. But muh heightened perception!!!!

So for range 2-3 missiles keep in mind in 2.0 force users can keep a lock from a previous turn and k turn and force modify another missile.

So basically...Range 2-3 Missile, get in close pew pew...k turn or sloop and shoot another missile if you kept a lock from round 2 of combat.

Procket Vader seems legit since he is the only one that can focus lock regularly right?

Though I guess predator and fcs synergize nicely with prockets since they are all bullseye. Need to find ways to get the most out of that 5 dice. Maybe coordinate is the way but lining up bullseyes and maintaing range with a wingman seems tough.

For Major Jeb's 2.0 half, I need suggestions for his rule text.

His subtitle is "Please Lock".