Worlds was pretty dumb gameplay-wise. 2/9 games were fortressing for 75 min and waiting for final salvo. A third almost ended in both of us asking a judge if we could salvo because neither of us wanted to play anymore lol. That was the first time I had ever fortressed or gone to salvo in a tournament game.
Carolina Krayts is the best X-Wing podcast
Miranda
Please Lock
To sober up a little bit: I'm a big fan of the Reaper right now from a raw power perspective, but I'm trying to assess dispassionately.
What are the odds that the Reaper is Gunboat Mk2? In that it seems awesome at first (and is awesome in a very specific set of circumstances), but not actually up to the power level of the top meta stuff?
Say the meta shifts to deal with the Reaper and you have a lot of stress to prevent Ailerons and the Jam action, and a lot of Expertise to gain modified attacks. Say that 4/5 ship lists are more common. Furthermore, say people discover easy ways to get behind the Reaper, making consistent Jamming a lot harder. Is it still a solid chassis? Does it still pull weight? Is part of its current effectiveness due to "shock and awe"?
More pointedly, what are the adjustments to build and tactics that take place to let meta squads hang in a world with Reapers?
21 minutes ago, Biophysical said:To sober up a little bit: I'm a big fan of the Reaper right now from a raw power perspective, but I'm trying to assess dispassionately.
What are the odds that the Reaper is Gunboat Mk2? In that it seems awesome at first (and is awesome in a very specific set of circumstances), but not actually up to the power level of the top meta stuff?
Say the meta shifts to deal with the Reaper and you have a lot of stress to prevent Ailerons and the Jam action, and a lot of Expertise to gain modified attacks. Say that 4/5 ship lists are more common. Furthermore, say people discover easy ways to get behind the Reaper, making consistent Jamming a lot harder. Is it still a solid chassis? Does it still pull weight? Is part of its current effectiveness due to "shock and awe"?
More pointedly, what are the adjustments to build and tactics that take place to let meta squads hang in a world with Reapers?
Some ramblings...
- As with all good things in the 1.0 meta...just being higher PS than Vermiel helps a ton, you still get jammed but slightly less jammed?
- I am still having a good deal of success with PS11 QD and Vader, but a switch to score to settle and lone wolf is pending.
- HLC/Linked Batteries works pretty well as do most any passive mods.
- Stress as you said is key.
- And of course bombs, bombs, and more bombs.
- The thing that makes the reapers good though is 8 hp on 2 green dice. That to me is the difference maker. I dont think they will fall on their face the way the gunboats did initially. Krennic is just to **** good.
- These jamming reapers are undeniably good against 100 pt Aces and Miranda specifically thanks to Krennic but a shift to Strezzra away from Fenn helps mitigate that if you put enough stress on Vermiel.
- Oh and of course....the other answer to a jamming reaper is a jamming reaper with a better bid and more passive mods than the other guy?
- And should also add that it is possible to stay out of arc out of range 1, if you move after PS8. Have no fear. Kylo is here! Hes advanced sensors are more advanced than Vermiels Alerons.
- What else....Ghost/Fenn probably?
- Using lists that stay at Range 2 of each other so only 1 thing loses mods or putting the thing in your list with the most passives near Vermiel and spreading the other 2 ships out?
- Why cant I stop rambling about 1.0? Thanks @FFG
25 minutes ago, Biophysical said:To sober up a little bit: I'm a big fan of the Reaper right now from a raw power perspective, but I'm trying to assess dispassionately.
What are the odds that the Reaper is Gunboat Mk2? In that it seems awesome at first (and is awesome in a very specific set of circumstances), but not actually up to the power level of the top meta stuff?
Say the meta shifts to deal with the Reaper and you have a lot of stress to prevent Ailerons and the Jam action, and a lot of Expertise to gain modified attacks. Say that 4/5 ship lists are more common. Furthermore, say people discover easy ways to get behind the Reaper, making consistent Jamming a lot harder. Is it still a solid chassis? Does it still pull weight? Is part of its current effectiveness due to "shock and awe"?
More pointedly, what are the adjustments to build and tactics that take place to let meta squads hang in a world with Reapers?
Oddly enough, the rise of reapers makes me reconsider my Double Accuracy Corrected, TLT + EU + Tactician ghost list I was using previously. I don't give a **** about your jam token, I don't need mods, and I will catch you.
3 hours ago, Scott Pilgrim2 said:Pretty much why I am thinking of flying VK with a Defender. Sounds really easy.
I brought VK with VI Stealth Device Vessery to a game yesterday against a local with similar skill... I've never felt like I robbed a player of so much agency before. I had a third ship, but honestly I could have taken a 27 point bid and had the same outcome.I'm aware of my skill level, and I shouldn't be able to say that I would have been OK with a stupidly large bid. I'm personally OK with calling it "easy".
(For reference, he was flying 3x Rookies (FAA, IA, Servos), Jess (FAA, IA, Servos), and Rex in competent finger five formation. Does not seem terrible to me. )
5 minutes ago, viedit said:Oddly enough, the rise of reapers makes me reconsider my Double Accuracy Corrected, TLT + EU + Tactician ghost list I was using previously. I don't give a **** about your jam token, I don't need mods, and I will catch you.
2 hours ago, defkhan1 said:Worlds was pretty dumb gameplay-wise. 2/9 games were fortressing for 75 min and waiting for final salvo. A third almost ended in both of us asking a judge if we could salvo because neither of us wanted to play anymore lol. That was the first time I had ever fortressed or gone to salvo in a tournament game.
if the X-Wing community trusted each other enough, we could all fly off the board on the same turn, final salvo, and go do something fun for 70 minutes.
4 minutes ago, skotothalamos said:if the X-Wing community trusted each other enough, we could all fly off the board on the same turn, final salvo, and go do something fun for 70 minutes.
Didn't a bunch of people pull that in the last round?
5 minutes ago, skotothalamos said:if the X-Wing community trusted each other enough, we could all fly off the board on the same turn, final salvo, and go do something fun for 70 minutes.
Duncan and Nathan did do that.
15 minutes ago, Kaptin Krunch said:
On the topic of this list... is it better with Intelligence Agents? And turn one of the Ghosts into Chopper?
I've ran that list *A LOT*. Probably 30 + games with it. Having the same PS is super helpful when it comes to activation. I'll self bump or choose to activate in a particular order. Same when it comes to shooty phase. There are many engagements when I'll choose to shoot first with one vs another. Tactician single handily helps you dumpster expertise wookies (especially if you have initiative) and really does some work on defenders.
Edited by viedit1 hour ago, Boom Owl said:Some ramblings...
- As with all good things in the 1.0 meta...just being higher PS than Vermiel helps a ton, you still get jammed but slightly less jammed?
- I am still having a good deal of success with PS11 QD and Vader, but a switch to score to settle and lone wolf is pending.
- HLC/Linked Batteries works pretty well as do most any passive mods.
- Stress as you said is key.
- And of course bombs, bombs, and more bombs.
- The thing that makes the reapers good though is 8 hp on 2 green dice. That to me is the difference maker. I dont think they will fall on their face the way the gunboats did initially. Krennic is just to **** good.
- These jamming reapers are undeniably good against 100 pt Aces and Miranda specifically thanks to Krennic but a shift to Strezzra away from Fenn helps mitigate that if you put enough stress on Vermiel.
- Oh and of course....the other answer to a jamming reaper is a jamming reaper with a better bid and more passive mods than the other guy?
- And should also add that it is possible to stay out of arc out of range 1, if you move after PS8. Have no fear. Kylo is here! Hes advanced sensors are more advanced than Vermiels Alerons.
- What else....Ghost/Fenn probably?
- Using lists that stay at Range 2 of each other so only 1 thing loses mods or putting the thing in your list with the most passives near Vermiel and spreading the other 2 ships out?
- Why cant I stop rambling about 1.0? Thanks @FFG
I'm not sure being high PS. You avoid the shot from the Reaper, which matters, but it's easy for someone moving first to get close and jam.
Do Reapers care that much about bombs? 8 HP and moving fast does limit bomb impact.
Strezra seems good vs Reapers, can he carry a 100pt ace squad against a jamming Reaper?
In a Reaper vs Reaper fight, they just sort of ignore each other, right? So what additional ships push the balance one way or another?
36 minutes ago, Biophysical said:I'm not sure being high PS. You avoid the shot from the Reaper, which matters, but it's easy for someone moving first to get close and jam.
Do Reapers care that much about bombs? 8 HP and moving fast does limit bomb impact.
Strezra seems good vs Reapers, can he carry a 100pt ace squad against a jamming Reaper?
In a Reaper vs Reaper fight, they just sort of ignore each other, right? So what additional ships push the balance one way or another?
For me the high ps helps purely from the ability to get the very first round of combats alpha strike off on the reaper. If you range control right and stick to R3 that reaper can take some serious hits early. Not losing a ship in return is tough and then your 2v2 against ace + palp reaper...but the PS9+ range has a decent # of advantages I think. Overall the fact they are sitting on 8 HP and 2 Green dice is probably the biggest deal out of anything they can do? Its so so so much like an Imperial Rebel Ship its not even funny. Like Silencers, Defenders, and SFs before them.
Edit: I should mention that the "default" to joust 1.0 gameplay style is something that I basically assume my opponent will do at this point and is less and less a wishful best case.
As for Stezra...I havent had a chance to play against a non-fenn Miranda list yet so I dont know how it plays out. I think the fact that you can neuter Miranda's alpha strike goes a long way still. Maybe 2 Sheathipedes is the way to go now so that you can double coordinate Miranda? Scratch that, thats dumb...
For the Reaper vs Reaper fight its actually really fun. At a certain point it just becomes a borderline modless slap fight with who ever stays out of Jam Range more doing better? Again the initiative thing. Also whichever reaper list has Palp does better than the one that doesnt I assume.
1.0 Git Out REEEEE!!!!
Edited by Boom OwlCouldn't a 100-point Miranda just move in this direction to combat reapers? Ezra doesn't care about actions, Magva can help clear jam tokens and/or give Miranda a TL for her harpoon and Lowhhrick is offensively weaker, but maybe a little tankier on defense (I don't know the math on C-3P0 vs. Rey focuses)? Or you could put C-3P0 and LRS back on Miranda and just swap out Rey for Magva on Low? That's literally just swapping out one crew. Like most ships, a double stressed reaper becomes really sad.
Ezra Bridger (Sheathipede) (17)
Snap Shot (2)
Hera Syndulla (1)
R3-A2 (2)
Miranda Doni (29)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Harpoon Missiles (4)
Magva Yarro (2)
Bomblet Generator (3)
Lowhhrick (28)
Selflessness (1)
Tactician (2)
C-3PO (3)
Total: 100
View in Yet Another Squad Builder
Edited by gennataos5 minutes ago, gennataos said:Couldn't a 100-point Miranda just move in this direction to combat reapers? Ezra doesn't care about actions, Magva can help clear jam tokens and/or give Miranda a TL for her harpoon and Lowhhrick is offensively weaker, but maybe a little tankier on defense (I don't know the math on C-3P0 vs. Rey focuses)? Or you could put C-3P0 and LRS back on Miranda and just swap out Rey for Magva on Low? That's literally just swapping out one crew. Like most ships, a double stressed reaper becomes really sad.
Ezra Bridger (Sheathipede) (17)
Snap Shot (2)
Hera Syndulla (1)
R3-A2 (2)Miranda Doni (29)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Harpoon Missiles (4)
Magva Yarro (2)
Bomblet Generator (3)Lowhhrick (28)
Selflessness (1)
Tactician (2)
C-3PO (3)Total: 100
Makes a bunch of sense. Though the reaper can kinda decide to not be in Range 2 since it moves last? Also probably worth considering Rey and a Expertise Wookie?
14 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:Makes a bunch of sense. Though the reaper can kinda decide to not be in Range 2 since it moves last? Also probably worth considering Rey and a Expertise Wookie?
It can decide that, but I'd imagine dancing between Ezra and Tactician Low and Miranda bombs might be a challenge with ailerons, particularly if it wants to maintain arc. I think the Rey focus stack disappears really quick with Jam out there, but not sure.
This is all in theory, though. I've run 100-point Miranda in the past, but not a lot and it's way outside of my preferred style. I have faced the reapers, though. They're terrifying if you need your tokens.
@abell19, @Heimdall Ulf...any thoughts?
2 minutes ago, gennataos said:They're terrifying if you need your tokens.
FFG seems determined to purge 1.0 of all action based dice modification. Take that PTL!
Oh and I meant YT-1300 Sloopy Big Base Passive Mods Defender Rey
Edited by Boom Owl5 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:FFG seems determined to purge 1.0 of all action based dice modification. Take that PTL!
I'm just fearful of what GenCon will look like if reapers start wrecking all the current meta staples during summer store champs. The meta will adjust, and I'm not very confident the reapers will come out on top of that.
Edited by gennataos1 minute ago, gennataos said:I'm just fearful of what GenCon will look like if reapers start wrecking all the current meta staples during summer store champs. The meta will adjust, and I'm not very confident the reapers will come out on top of that.
Im only interested in this wave from the perspective that its fun to see just how broken 1.0 can become. Im sure in the end Miranda will be on top as always.
40 minutes ago, gennataos said:Couldn't a 100-point Miranda just move in this direction to combat reapers? Ezra doesn't care about actions, Magva can help clear jam tokens and/or give Miranda a TL for her harpoon and Lowhhrick is offensively weaker, but maybe a little tankier on defense (I don't know the math on C-3P0 vs. Rey focuses)? Or you could put C-3P0 and LRS back on Miranda and just swap out Rey for Magva on Low? That's literally just swapping out one crew. Like most ships, a double stressed reaper becomes really sad.
Ezra Bridger (Sheathipede) (17)
Snap Shot (2)
Hera Syndulla (1)
R3-A2 (2)Miranda Doni (29)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Harpoon Missiles (4)
Magva Yarro (2)
Bomblet Generator (3)Lowhhrick (28)
Selflessness (1)
Tactician (2)
C-3PO (3)Total: 100
Those aces are moving after miranda (so also shooting after miranda) so Magva won't set up harpoons. C3PO is much better than Rey for defense, though.
2 hours ago, Biophysical said:What are the odds that the Reaper is Gunboat Mk2? In that it seems awesome at first (and is awesome in a very specific set of circumstances), but not actually up to the power level of the top meta stuff?
It's a good question - in the gunboats case, they were up to the meta, but the meta shifted to handle them (actually it didn't now that I think about it, the meta hadn't yet settled on ghost fenn with engine which was introduced at the same time). The question is basically is there something even dumber than reapers in wave 14, and I think the answer is no? Magva is clever though.
Just now, Boom Owl said:Im only interested in this wave from the perspective that its fun to see just how broken 1.0 can become. Im sure in the end Miranda will be on top as always.
I'm only interested because those GenCon BB-8 templates aren't going to win themselves.
8 minutes ago, gennataos said:I'm just fearful of what GenCon will look like if reapers start wrecking all the current meta staples during summer store champs. The meta will adjust, and I'm not very confident the reapers will come out on top of that.
Heh.
21 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:Oh and I meant YT-1300 Sloopy Big Base Passive Mods Defender Rey
There's nothing I'd be more onboard with than having sloopy Rey be the answer. Nothing.
7 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:Heh.
No cryptic laughing!
I have every expectation to be wrong. I'd welcome it! If I'm flying around, tokenless, while an ace dances around my squad and kills everyone, I don't see that a lot different than Palp aces and I can accept that. I just don't want to see a worse mutation than some of the stuff we already have.
Edited by gennataos6 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:Heh.
IF I BRING 3 DEFENDERS YOU CAN'T JAM ALL OF THEM