1 minute ago, RynoZero said:Speaking of. juke howl is on my to-do list, but is juke worth it in a world of force-aces?
That’s a force drain or damage every turn. If they spend 2 force a turn, they run out. If they spend 1 force a turn, on defense, they’re not spending it on offense.
3 minutes ago, RynoZero said:Solo'd four crack ties with Instinct Luke. it was super close but super luke might have made that less of a game.
Almost assuredly.
6 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:That’s a force drain or damage every turn. If they spend 2 force a turn, they run out. If they spend 1 force a turn, on defense, they’re not spending it on offense.
Almost assuredly.
No one has been really talking about it but if I remember correctly supernatural and s-foils have the same timing so you can supernatural boost-focus, then flip your s-foils do your move, and target lock/roll
2 hours ago, apoapsis said:You can link off supernatural reflexes
Burn it down
3.0 when?
1 hour ago, apoapsis said:I could be wrong, here's my comparison photos.
I didn't get a chance to compare plastic to plastic.
Looks like you're right! I must have measured wrongly.
1 hour ago, Tlfj200 said:how did this come about?
I think it might have started in its earliest form around the same time that Leebo Jokes reached their peak quality and as a response to a couple ListJuggler recap episodes where the Mynocks got understandably confused about why someone in Poland brought Synched Turret instead of TLT. It didn't really become a thing until FFG's pointless Meta Data vs One Specific European Anecdote article turned it into more of a self referential rallying cry.
There is always a significant portion of the entire X-Wing community that wants nothing more than to be the guy that changed the game and bucked the trend. A genuine rebel pilot, a real maverick that wears aviators and breaks all the rules! Its just that with a different tag line. Its kinda obvious after attending Worlds that actual X-Wing is a very global and welcoming experience with 99% the same terrible 1.0 competitive meta and a couple dedicated players who have a huge # of reps with specific outliers.
Forget all that though...2.0 is here!
Edited by Boom Owl
1 minute ago, Boom Owl said:There is always a significant portion of the entire X-Wing community that wants nothing more than to be the guy that changed the game and bucked the trend. A genuine rebel pilot, a real maverick that wears aviators and breaks all the rules! Its just that with a different tag line. Its kinda obvious after attending Worlds that actual X-Wing is a very global and welcoming experience with 99% the same terrible 1.0 competitive meta and a couple dedicated players who have a huge # of reps with specific outliers.
Ah - the entire continent of Europe are Mavericks . I see.
1 hour ago, apoapsis said:Not a typo, this was the points cost used in the Lando squad. Braylem and Miranda were both about 50ish, and Lando was about 100ish.
So is anyone else scared that 5 Wardens with Bomblets might be a thing? Bomblets aren't limited/unique or whatever. Assuming it doesn't fit.
But four K-Wings with Bomblets and Missiles might...
In regards to the "cheap" Miranda, the only version of her we have seen only had bombs equipped. I am curious as to whether they may have removed the secondary turret from the k. There is also the potential that missiles or torps have also been removed. If any of those turn out to be the case it would help explain the low point cost.
1 hour ago, Tlfj200 said:Ah - the entire continent of Europe are Mavericks . I see.
I think it came out more of the general dismissal of European results by much of the American community for quite a while. Attitudes like "It might work over there but not in our competitive meta" or "they can get away with it because they aren't in our hotbed of competition". So people took it and ran with it.
1 hour ago, Kieransi said:So is anyone else scared that 5 Wardens with Bomblets might be a thing? Bomblets aren't limited/unique or whatever. Assuming it doesn't fit.
But four K-Wings with Bomblets and Missiles might...
that strikes me as a list that will do really well early on. until everyone has remastered the rule of 11, blocking and setting up good approaches.
3 hours ago, Tlfj200 said:
also, genuinely - where the **** did #tinyeuropeanmeta even come from? Who was dumb enough to say that? Europe is literally half of list juggler.
(also, I know you’re not saying we said it - I actually am asking - how did this come about?)
Just to clarify, I was joking about the fact that Netherland actually is a tinymeta, yet they managed to reach the final in both Worlds and European, while also having Faan winning the swiss.
But yeah, as Logicdump said, the tinymeta was born when some prominent USA spokepeople (not the krayts we discovered some pages ago, although I'd say at the time they might have shared the same sentiments) were dismissive as some list building choices that won stuff in Europe and they were claiming it only worked because of Europe had a less competitive meta.
Then it became a meme
32 minutes ago, thelogicdump said:I think it came out more of the general dismissal of European results by much of the American community for quite a while. Attitudes like "It might work over there but not in our competitive meta" or "they can get away with it because they aren't in our hotbed of competition". So people took it and ran with it.
Hmm... perhaps.
whats missing in all of this is that everyone’s meta has been mostly the same. For every synced turret, there are 3 100 point miranda variants, 2-3 palp aces, and the willful ignorance that the synced turret was on a super ghost.
Like, weird lists win stuff all the time, but it’s the aggregate data that matters. Basically, the meta has been known since January. Even with the worlds winning list, if you look at the top 16, it’s super meta (and plenty of Europeans within it).
That’s what I don’t get - everyone wants to be the beautiful snowflake - and basically none of us are. No one.
(Also, country size is irrelevant in Europe, as travel is far easier [and denser/shorter/cheaper] than America. Europe’s big tournaments will always surpass America’s.)
5 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:Hmm... perhaps.
whats missing in all of this is that everyone’s meta has been mostly the same. For every synced turret, there are 3 100 point miranda variants, 2-3 palp aces, and the willful ignorance that the synced turret was on a super ghost.
Like, weird lists win stuff all the time, but it’s the aggregate data that matters. Basically, the meta has been known since January. Even with the worlds winning list, if you look at the top 16, it’s super meta (and plenty of Europeans within it).
That’s what I don’t get - everyone wants to be the beautiful snowflake - and basically none of us are. No one.
Oh I forgot another layer on the tinymeta thing: as far as I know, there were way less complaint about the state of the game in Europe. Other than the dark weeks of Simulator Nym, most of the competitive and loud part of the European players was ok with xwing meta.
This didn't mean we had a completly different meta where crazy **** was everywhere: the cuts were always those 5-6 archetypes in Europe too.
But we never reached the same spam of 100 points Miranda and there were an healthy turnover on which was the hottest meta list of the week.
And we also had some very good players who weren't afraid to go a bit anti-meta from time to time: think about Jesper Hills controlbot or Mr.Paraszczak Nym Sol Sixxa.
Overall, Europe competitive scene was mostly fine with the "solved meta" we had from January. It wasn't too much focussed on just one list (despite Ghost Fenn and palpaces being a bit too common) and without that many 100 points miranda tainting our mats it was easier to just enjoy 1.0.
So, after the months of "xwing sucks" that was growing in the perceived USA comunities, #tinyeuropeanmeta also became a way to state that we were still having tons of fun with plastic spaceships.
To summarize then, #tinyeuropeanmeta was:
-a reaction to some american commentators being dismissive of the competitive scene of the old world
-a meme
-a way to tell that people still had fun with xwing 1.0 and that a solved meta doens't necessarily meant a stale one
5 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:(Also, country size is irrelevant in Europe, as travel is far easier [and denser/shorter/cheaper] than America. Europe’s big tournaments will always surpass America’s.)
And yet Worlds are hold in Minnesota 
18 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:whats missing in all of this is that everyone’s meta has been mostly the same. For every synced turret, there are 3 100 point miranda variants, 2-3 palp aces, and the willful ignorance that the synced turret was on a super ghost.
in my opinion the problem is created because the format for reporting events is often one at a time and the rundown goes likes this.
3 Miri, meh
2 standard ghost fenn, FAQ TLT pls
2-3 palp aces, yup thats a list
Synct Turret, wow this is amazing/bad what a great/crazy list builder this guy is lets stretch this for 5 minutes of content.
which creates the impression the exceptions are worth more attention than the trends.
not everyone is aggregating data so that they can comment on trends and patterns. and the ones who do are correct to keep that valuable work to themselves, like your worlds data.
12 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:So, after the months of "xwing sucks" that was growing in the perceived USA comunities, #tinyeuropeanmeta also became a way to state that we were still having tons of fun with plastic spaceships.
And yet, 2.0 more aligns with the ‘xwing sucks crowd.’ I’m actually interested to see if Europe likes the new game.
12 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:And yet Worlds are hold in Minnesota
I mean, it’s not like Minnesota is a hotbed for America - it’s just that FFG is cheap.
2 minutes ago, RynoZero said:not everyone is aggregating data so that they can comment on trends and patterns. and the ones who do are correct to keep that valuable work to themselves, like your worlds data.
You’re not wrong there ? we did discuss the data some, but part of my team was reluctant to ‘give away the data’ before worlds.
that said, the last THREE worlds in a row, we all basically knew the meta - my internal data just put specific numbers to the trends we all already knew.
The only thing my data has been useful for is correcting other podcasts.
44 minutes ago, Sunitsa said:And yet Worlds are hold in Minnesota
Yeah, and Catan Worlds are in Cologne. Euro game? Euro worlds. You want to build roads and trade sheep with the best? Go to Germany. You want to roll attack dice and blow up space ships? Come to murrica!
12 minutes ago, skotothalamos said:Yeah, and Catan Worlds are in Cologne. Euro game? Euro worlds. You want to build roads and trade sheep with the best? Go to Germany. You want to roll attack dice and blow up space ships? Come to murrica!
I AGREE
35 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:You’re not wrong there ? we did discuss the data some, but part of my team was reluctant to ‘give away the data’ before worlds.
fair point, especially all that work around "Turret" vs Arc and how saturated the meta actually was.
i have no self control for sharing either, my meta analysis i "give away" locally to anyone. but i did some "Xwing Rankings" analysis once Aus regional season was over just so i can see who are my peers and who are my seniors. and the desire to share is real but im not interested in the problems that would come with it.
1 hour ago, Tlfj200 said:
(Also, country size is irrelevant in Europe, as travel is far easier [and denser/shorter/cheaper] than America. Europe’s big tournaments will always surpass America’s.)
WHAT DO YOU MEAN POPULATION DESNITY AFFECTS TOURNAMENT SIZES, THERES NO WAY A PLACE WHERE MORE PEOPLE LIVE AND HAVE EASY ACCESS TO COULD TURN OUT A LARGER TOURNAMENT LOGICALLY. ITS THE DEDICATION AND LOVE AND SKILL AND MEANING!!!!!
15 minutes ago, catachanninja said:WHAT DO YOU MEAN POPULATION DESNITY AFFECTS TOURNAMENT SIZES, THERES NO WAY A PLACE WHERE MORE PEOPLE LIVE AND HAVE EASY ACCESS TO COULD TURN OUT A LARGER TOURNAMENT LOGICALLY. ITS THE DEDICATION AND LOVE AND SKILL AND MEANING!!!!!
Capslock is the ***** road to loud. That there is clearly some right pinkey shift action, and that's how you get gud.
8 minutes ago, JasonCole said:Capslock is the ***** road to loud. That there is clearly some right pinkey shift action, and that's how you get gud.
I don’t think I ever shift with my right pinky. I’m not a good typer...
Just now, tortugatron said:I don’t think I ever shift with my right pinky. I’m not a good typer...
That's why you need to get gud.
2 hours ago, Tlfj200 said:The only thing my data has been useful for is correcting other podcasts.
what else even matters though
2 hours ago, Tlfj200 said:I mean, it’s not like Minnesota is a hotbed for America - it’s just that FFG is cheap.
Working within a sustainable budget = cheap? I guess I learned something new today after all.
35 minutes ago, Brunas said:what else even matters though
I can't ❤️ this enough