FAQ Advanced Sensors to also read:

"You may not perform boost actions before revealing your dial"

And if that doesn't go far enough, BR as well.

26 minutes ago, Brunas said:

NO BALLS - PRINT GUIDANCE CHIPS FOR PRIMARY WEAPONS IN ARC

NOTHING BAD WILL COME OUT OF THIS ARMS RACE

New Krayt bounty:

Win a store kit or higher tournament with Krayts newly printed Primary Weapons Guidance Chips cards in list.

Give me the address to send my stamped, self-addressed envelope to receive the new card, please.

Ah, Krayts. Poetry in motion.

1 hour ago, Brunas said:

NO BALLS - PRINT GUIDANCE CHIPS FOR PRIMARY WEAPONS IN ARC

NOTHING BAD WILL COME OUT OF THIS ARMS RACE

WRONG. GUIDANCE CHIPS CHANGES - YOU NEED TO ADD, FIX BETTER.

21 minutes ago, Do I need a Username said:

WRONG. GUIDANCE CHIPS CHANGES - YOU NEED TO ADD, FIX BETTER.

ITS PROBABLY BEST IF WE SPEAK ONLY IN CAPS IN THIS THREAD FROM NOW ON.

3 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

ITS PROBABLY BEST IF WE SPEAK ONLY IN CAPS IN THIS THREAD FROM NOW ON.

I AGREE

For one of the reasons that people don't like netlisting (or rather that they think that Netlisting is the thing that they don't like)-

In the vein of you guys talking about listbuilding with restrictions and it being akin to poetry, for many people, they want to win, but with their own list restrictions. I apply myself to aesthetic restrictions as an example, because there is no point in winning if you can't look good doing so.

The issue is that with recent game design and meta development, it becomes increasingly easier to lose in the listbuilding and deployment phases.

Since playing the game when you have a chance to win is fun, it's less enjoyable.

These people may lash out at people that fly more advanced lists because they want to win, as the power difference between those lists and their own has grown higher. They should be complaining to FFG if anyone though.

I fully expect to bring triple harpoon Scurrrrg myself and ask my opponents to request that FFG nerf it after every game.

15 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

ITS PROBABLY BEST IF WE SPEAK ONLY IN CAPS IN THIS THREAD FROM NOW ON.

I'M THEZACKMATHEWSCAROLINAKRAYTSPODCAST AND I APPROVE THIS MESSAGE

16 minutes ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

For one of the reasons that people don't like netlisting (or rather that they think that Netlisting is the thing that they don't like)-

In the vein of you guys talking about listbuilding with restrictions and it being akin to poetry, for many people, they want to win, but with their own list restrictions. I apply myself to aesthetic restrictions as an example, because there is no point in winning if you can't look good doing so.

The issue is that with recent game design and meta development, it becomes increasingly easier to lose in the listbuilding and deployment phases.

Since playing the game when you have a chance to win is fun, it's less enjoyable.

These people may lash out at people that fly more advanced lists because they want to win, as the power difference between those lists and their own has grown higher. They should be complaining to FFG if anyone though.

I fully expect to bring triple harpoon Scurrrrg myself and ask my opponents to request that FFG nerf it after every game.

Basically, this.

1) it is FAR easier to lose in the squad building step overall

2) It's far easier to lose at turn 0 (if it's already a bad matchup, your strategy needs to be absolutely on point)

Separately, I understand and can relate to the idea that not all (I'd argue most) do not want to literally win at any costs, and that people actually enjoy other aspects. For instance, I just don't enjoy the playstyle of FSR, miranda, or nym, and so although I think they're some of the best lists/ships, I simply do not play them because playing them repetitiously sounds miserable [again, to me]. So, instead, I identify ships and squads that are somewhere in the same ballpark of power, and look for ones I do enjoy playing, while also trying to maximize its winning potential. I'll easily go tier "1.5" to continue playing a list I like, and focus on shoring up its weak points, than fly a tier 1 list I do not enjoy.

Basically, to be use a little jargon, almost everyone is actually trying to perform multi-variable optimizations based on their own personal profiles. They're simultaneously trying to optimize variables such as winning percentage, fun, style, theme, and strategy, and each of those variables have different, personal weights to them. So to berate people for having different weights, or to assume that simply because they weight winning more than you do, that they're somehow 100% only about winning, is incredibly naive and ignores the very real human-side of gaming.

All of that said, too large of a mismatch on the weights of importance of those variables can and will just make everyone unhappy (e.g. a person trying to actually shoot to win a regional versus a person that puts far more importance on "unique" and "thematic" squads, or enjoys the weaker ships such as the punisher). But come on - we all see what people are playing, and we can all basically say "Sorry, I only have my tournament squad on me. Perhaps another time?"


Lastely, I'm with you on the recent waves, as well. FFG is pushing an increasingly different playstyle that is personally making it harder for me to find "good" squads I want to play. I shall keep endeavoring to find and refine them, however.

3 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

Basically, this.

1) it is FAR easier to lose in the squad building step overall

2) It's far easier to lose at turn 0 (if it's already a bad matchup, your strategy needs to be absolutely on point)

Separately, I understand and can relate to the idea that not all (I'd argue most) do not want to literally win at any costs, and that people actually enjoy other aspects. For instance, I just don't enjoy the playstyle of FSR, miranda, or nym, and so although I think they're some of the best lists/ships, I simply do not play them because playing them repetitiously sounds miserable [again, to me]. So, instead, I identify ships and squads that are somewhere in the same ballpark of power, and look for ones I do enjoy playing, while also trying to maximize its winning potential. I'll easily go tier "1.5" to continue playing a list I like, and focus on shoring up its weak points, than fly a tier 1 list I do not enjoy.

Basically, to be use a little jargon, almost everyone is actually trying to perform multi-variable optimizations based on their own personal profiles. They're simultaneously trying to optimize variables such as winning percentage, fun, style, theme, and strategy, and each of those variables have different, personal weights to them. So to berate people for having different weights, or to assume that simply because they weight winning more than you do, that they're somehow 100% only about winning, is incredibly naive and ignores the very real human-side of gaming.

All of that said, too large of a mismatch on the weights of importance of those variables can and will just make everyone unhappy (e.g. a person trying to actually shoot to win a regional versus a person that puts far more importance on "unique" and "thematic" squads, or enjoys the weaker ships such as the punisher). But come on - we all see what people are playing, and we can all basically say "Sorry, I only have my tournament squad on me. Perhaps another time?"


Lastely, I'm with you on the recent waves, as well. FFG is pushing an increasingly different playstyle that is personally making it harder for me to find "good" squads I want to play. I shall keep endeavoring to find and refine them, however.

I'm still trying to make my self-imposed restriction of "empire with at least 2 identical thematic generics" work, but with Nym and turrets being so strong and Onyx Squadron Escorts being so bad (Why no EPT ffg?) I'm debating temporarily switching to scum. If the Jumpmaster wasn't scum and so goofy looking, I'd be all over Grassholes.

I know I'm waiting for Nationals to end for FFG to release their Errata to hopefully lower the power level gap, and if it doesn't, I made a plan to release an player-run FAQ with prize support (and get downvoted on reddit and ignored here, but W/e)

40k's last editionshows us just how bad this can get- factions had such distinct powerlevels that they may effectively been different games. That caused each power-tier to hate all of the others, unless they were masochistic ork players or something.

If FFG wants to maintain a good community with minimal fracturing, they need to lower the power differences between noob-lists that come out of the box, "normal/casual night/thematic" lists, and highly-competitive tournament lists.

I'm having trouble with the list building disparity too. I moved to an area where the closest store champs was a two hour drive. I've never made a regional cut or anything, but I instantly became the biggest (still small) fish in a tiny pond.

I'm growing the competitive community and we should have a champs or two next season, but in the meantime I can't bring a k-wing or Jumpmaster for fear of scaring people away. (No one else can buy a k-wing and they have adopted Scout salt even here).

I'm ready to go for the single small ship bounty to get it out of my system, and I can go back to optimizing jank and staying positive. I've slowly drawn a few people to a real tournament, and they are interested in getting better, but I don't want to go too hard.

11 minutes ago, AEIllingworth said:

I'm ready to go for the single small ship bounty to get it out of my system, and I can go back to optimizing jank and staying positive. I've slowly drawn a few people to a real tournament, and they are interested in getting better, but I don't want to go too hard.

For the sake of your local community's health, I wouldn't do it locally. If you do try for the bounty, the goal was to flaunt just how bad the MoV tiebreaker system is to everyone else at the event.

Keep them innocent. Keep them pure.

Do it at a regional, dress up like palpatine and wear a novelty hat making fun of your own list- also because I made 3 different mat designs and you will get all 3 if you do it at a regional or above.

2 hours ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

For the sake of your local community's health, I wouldn't do it locally. If you do try for the bounty, the goal was to flaunt just how bad the MoV tiebreaker system is to everyone else at the event.

Keep them innocent. Keep them pure.

Do it at a regional, dress up like palpatine and wear a novelty hat making fun of your own list- also because I made 3 different mat designs and you will get all 3 if you do it at a regional or above.

Deal. Sometimes I feel Like I've found an uncontacted tribe in the Amazon when my opponent at a kit tournament pulls out a 40 point b-wing or Sabine in a Shadowcaster. It is precious, and I shouldn't taint it for Internet glory and the memes.

If advanced slam slam gets changed before regional season it is gonna be way harder, though. And my closest regional is the Worlds Venue. I should try to snipe one in Future America, or North Dakota (that may as well be Canada).

after hearing all the disrespect on the one true turret, I'll just leave this here,

I agree

In terms of net-listing, I have no problem with it. What I DO have a problem with is when I ask my opponent if their flying something meta (So I know what I should fly, so I don't insta lose / win) and they say "casual" and set down Dengar / Nym. Then, when questioned they say "But its not that exactly" Its still good, and not fun for me. That's what makes me salty.

@Krayts.... in getting ready to embrace my Kylo Silencer as my new "not Soontir"... is there any Imperial build using aces that even has a chance in the current meta? I don't want to RAC or Upsilon dang it...

Also, Canadian episode might be one of the funniest things I've ever heard... good (if disheartening for those of us that don't want to not play imperials... I feel like a petulant child) stuff

I've been toying with AdvCloak/Sensor/Agent/Echo and Whisper... with VI and Adapt... but can't counter PS11 and I feel like I'm working really hard... but man is it fun to dance and around with Sensor/Decloaks

3 hours ago, Lobokai said:

@Krayts.... in getting ready to embrace my Kylo Silencer as my new "not Soontir"... is there any Imperial build using aces that even has a chance in the current meta? I don't want to RAC or Upsilon dang it...

Also, Canadian episode might be one of the funniest things I've ever heard... good (if disheartening for those of us that don't want to not play imperials... I feel like a petulant child) stuff

I've been toying with AdvCloak/Sensor/Agent/Echo and Whisper... with VI and Adapt... but can't counter PS11 and I feel like I'm working really hard... but man is it fun to dance and around with Sensor/Decloaks

There really isn't an aces build.

If if you want to make aces work, your best bet might be PtL Kylo and VI Vader. Feed them Kylo to apply the dark side condition and Grandfather can get the Crits. It won't be easy and you probably have about enough points to squeeze in an academy pilot as your third ship.

We're coming for you gunboat.

You dismissed the new starviper in the most recent episode, outside of fourBZ equivalents. I was on that train when the title got spoiled, but I'm a little more hesitant now.

If all we have is bombs and turrets, autothrusters is back to auto-include when you can take it, and the StarViper has the second most hp of autothruster ships (after the IGs[edit: until the silencer(double edit: also T-70, though it only has 2 agility)]). I think I'd rather have four ps1 with autothrusters over the extra Z (or even Sunny Bounder!).

Really, you could do three with a Scurrg that has Autoblaster turret and Intel agent, or throw in some R4 TLT Y wings, or the intel jump that I think Zack mentioned? Scum has a crazy amount of interesting mid 20 point options, if only generics mattered and firing arcs were useful.

It gets more complicated if you want a Quadjumper, because I hate spending more than about 20 points on one. I guess you could put that in, give the Scurrg long range sensors and Harpoon! and get two autothruster StarVipers? There is a lot of wiggle room here, almost like building the old Palp aces lists (but not that good).

Boot to page one

4 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

Boot to page one

NEEDS MORE CAPSLOCK

1 hour ago, Boom Owl said:

NEEDS MORE CAPSLOCK

KRAYTSLOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR TRUTH

I had someone tell me that the party bus needs a nerf, and that bombs / intel agent K-wings are fine, I just need to "fly Better" Almost sent me into a blind rage.

1 minute ago, Do I need a Username said:

I had someone tell me that the party bus needs a nerf, and that bombs / intel agent K-wings are fine, I just need to "fly Better" Almost sent me into a blind rage.

Glad you were able to avoid that blinded pilot crit. But whats up with using Rage on Miranda?

Nearly one tenth of the way there boys!