4 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

I run Jan, Poe, Jake exactly this way (except totally different )but usually with Prockets and never thought to add Outmanuver which sounds amazing. If thats not living free I dont know what it is.

*Runs to store to try it out.

So glad TLT maks Hwk 290s viable in purely casual games. Thanks TLT!

I dunno... I use Jan/Numb/TLT all the time, it's been a staple in all of my competitive lists... oh wait, I just figured out why I'm always in the top half but rarely at the top...

10 hours ago, Brunas said:

Notice I said deserve, not want

Moments of clarity and insanity...

1. due to local player base request for it, create a tournament with no secondary weapons, bombs and only 80 degree forward fire arcs.
2. realize that I am doing this to shake up the meta so that players have a toxic free environment for day
3. my list building quickly devolves into Kylo/Fel and a massive bid
4. ...
5. Er... So Wedge, Janson, Tarn and Rex... Yeah, much better...

We did a a few months back (mid store champs season so full bomb meta) with a slight variation on that. It was a little bit more lax than yours in that we allowed one "extra arc" (eg you could have a lancer but not a lancer and slave 1). We also made sure we banned outrider title explicity as we knew someone would rules lawyer it What we found was that a huge chunk of people brought imperial aces or swarms. Basically competitive stuff that that had been destroyed by bombs/regen turrets at the time. Was a blast!

3 minutes ago, thelogicdump said:

We did a a few months back (mid store champs season so full bomb meta) with a slight variation on that. It was a little bit more lax than yours in that we allowed one "extra arc" (eg you could have a lancer but not a lancer and slave 1). We also made sure we banned outrider title explicity as we knew someone would rules lawyer it What we found was that a huge chunk of people brought imperial aces or swarms. Basically competitive stuff that that had been destroyed by bombs/regen turrets at the time. Was a blast!

Yeah, ours isn't quite as simple as stated above either. The actual wording is more to the effect of "you cannot fire secondary weapons or attack outside your forward 80 degree arc." So Lancers and Firesprays can be brought, Linked Batteries are still functional (it doesn't fire), Rey could still be a thing... and even some of those triggers are still valid but the player is likely paying for things they cannot use.

Players proposed the 80 degree arc game (I'd never heard of it) and I broke it down and tried to balance it with simple rules/fun/game balance with only a few hours to try to assemble things. I saw bombs as being potentially toxic still, and well... Palp aces without counters could be messy. We'll see if I made the right call... Clearly there is still broken to be had even in THIS environment.

23 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

Yeah, ours isn't quite as simple as stated above either. The actual wording is more to the effect of "you cannot fire secondary weapons or attack outside your forward 80 degree arc." So Lancers and Firesprays can be brought, Linked Batteries are still functional (it doesn't fire), Rey could still be a thing... and even some of those triggers are still valid but the player is likely paying for things they cannot use.

Players proposed the 80 degree arc game (I'd never heard of it) and I broke it down and tried to balance it with simple rules/fun/game balance with only a few hours to try to assemble things. I saw bombs as being potentially toxic still, and well... Palp aces without counters could be messy. We'll see if I made the right call... Clearly there is still broken to be had even in THIS environment.

Fixed it:

https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Rebel Alliance&d=v4!s!0:27,-1,253:-1:20:;82:27,-1,253:-1:20:;175:27,-1,3,-1:-1:15:&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

Boost or Barrel roll at PS 10 seems good vs. aces.

It's like cancer chat. I post something, blink, and it's buried under another conversation.

The point of having a judge correct the match over the spectator is to filter idiot spectators from saying something out of line. Some of you spectators really are idiots and need to just shut up around games. I've had to tell a fair number to shut up or walk further away just from random comments. Tell spectators they're allowed to correct a game, but only if they know they're right and it's a thing that has to happen and holy **** you're going to get some really stupid comments. Better to just tell them to filter it through a judge.

And of course, I'm talking about that other guy. Definitely not you who is reading this right now.

Chris Allen, you mentioned selling swag to pay for judging expenses and maybe you screwed Brent with the personalized set. For me, I'd rather have the personalized stuff. I only really sell things if I'm given an extra set. All the rest goes into my dragon's hoard of acrylic and alt arts I may never use, but have to have. If you haven't seen it, Brent, Iain, and myself got copies of the clear/gold worlds templates made for ourselves that say "World's Judge". We actively spent extra money to get something we will never be able to sell. I actually prefer it that way. It gives me something special nobody else gets for doing something nobody else does, and it keeps the top cut player prizes on that elite level without diluting them by giving them to scrub judges. If they had an "official ffg prize pack" given to judges after they've done some arbitrary number or level of judging, I think that would be awesome.

42 minutes ago, Killerardvark said:

Some of you spectators really are idiots and need to just shut up around games.

This is why I don't correct people - I don't know their lists, and I don't know the interactions. The most I will do at a store kit is ask people something along the lines of "What about x?" where X is a crit or mandatory trigger, and I only do that when its commonly forgotten (Meaning I've done it once, with shaken pilot). Otherwise, I'll ask another spectator away from the table but I presume the players will remember it, or bring it up to a judge when they realize they forgot. At absolute most, I'll tell a judge if a player is blatantly cheating. Otherwise, not my game, not my problem.

2 hours ago, LagJanson said:

Moments of clarity and insanity...

1. due to local player base request for it, create a tournament with no secondary weapons, bombs and only 80 degree forward fire arcs.
2. realize that I am doing this to shake up the meta so that players have a toxic free environment for day
3. my list building quickly devolves into Kylo/Fel and a massive bid
4. ...
5. Er... So Wedge, Janson, Tarn and Rex... Yeah, much better...

One suggestion I floated in another thread....

Label Bombs, Turrets, Missiles, Torps and Cannons as "Secondary" weapons.

Create a FAQ entry that a ship can only equip one type of secondary weapon.

Result - Miranda can TLT but she can't bomb or harpoon. She can harpoon but she can't bomb or TLT. She can bomb, but she can't TLT or Harpoon. Same for Nym.

IG-88's can still equip two cannons. Nym can still traject mutiple types of bombs. Gunboats can still be harpoon carriers or HLC carriers but not both (not that both was common). Vynder can still do prockets and harpoons. But not Ion torpedos in addition to prockets or harpoons. Most other builds are unaffected.

11 minutes ago, viedit said:

One suggestion I floated in another thread....

Label Bombs, Turrets, Missiles, Torps and Cannons as "Secondary" weapons.

Create a FAQ entry that a ship can only equip one type of secondary weapon.

Result - Miranda can TLT but she can't bomb or harpoon. She can harpoon but she can't bomb or TLT. She can bomb, but she can't TLT or Harpoon. Same for Nym.

IG-88's can still equip two cannons. Nym can still traject mutiple types of bombs. Gunboats can still be harpoon carriers or HLC carriers but not both (not that both was common). Vynder can still do prockets and harpoons. But not Ion torpedos in addition to prockets or harpoons. Most other builds are unaffected.

Would Extra Munitions be an exception?

3 minutes ago, sirjorj said:

Would Extra Munitions be an exception?

You aren't changing the type of weapon used, simply using a different slot to increase munitions of an existing type. So yeah, it's fine.

21 minutes ago, viedit said:

Vynder can still do prockets and harpoons. But not Ion torpedos in addition to prockets or harpoons.

So EM is not being treated as a Torp “type”? Ok. Perhaps EM should be made a standard mechanic. I think this idea could work.

20 minutes ago, viedit said:

One suggestion I floated in another thread....

Label Bombs, Turrets, Missiles, Torps and Cannons as "Secondary" weapons.

Create a FAQ entry that a ship can only equip one type of secondary weapon.

Result - Miranda can TLT but she can't bomb or harpoon. She can harpoon but she can't bomb or TLT. She can bomb, but she can't TLT or Harpoon. Same for Nym.

IG-88's can still equip two cannons. Nym can still traject mutiple types of bombs. Gunboats can still be harpoon carriers or HLC carriers but not both (not that both was common). Vynder can still do prockets and harpoons. But not Ion torpedos in addition to prockets or harpoons. Most other builds are unaffected.

I can see this working as well - but at a higher power level than what we're running. There's a heck of a lot less throwing four dice with the rules we've stated, there are turrets in play here... and Miranda can be pretty obnoxious with TLT alone.

2 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

I can see this working as well - but at a higher power level than what we're running. There's a heck of a lot less throwing four dice with the rules we've stated, there are turrets in play here... and Miranda can be pretty obnoxious with TLT alone.

Meh. If she's rocking a TLT. I'm going to joust the **** out of her and nuke her immediately. I don't have to worry about eating a harpoon up front or bombs out of her *** on the chase after the initial engagement.

5 minutes ago, sirjorj said:

So EM is not being treated as a Torp “type”? Ok. Perhaps EM should be made a standard mechanic. I think this idea could work.

In my world of magical FAQing, Extra Munitions isn't a secondary weapon itself. It's a lot like the "bomb loadout" for Y-wings. If you have a TLT on a Y-wing you could still add the "bomb loadout" as well as extra munitions if you wanted some Chopper fuel for regen. While they occupy a slot, it's not something you can actually deal damage with.

2 minutes ago, viedit said:

Meh. If she's rocking a TLT. I'm going to joust the **** out of her and nuke her immediately. I don't have to worry about eating a harpoon up front or bombs out of her *** on the chase after the initial engagement.

You assume she's going to joust back?

2 minutes ago, viedit said:

In my world of magical FAQing, Extra Munitions isn't a secondary weapon itself. It's a lot like the "bomb loadout" for Y-wings. If you have a TLT on a Y-wing you could still add the "bomb loadout" as well as extra munitions if you wanted some Chopper fuel for regen. While they occupy a slot, it's not something you can actually deal damage with.

Ahh. Gotcha.

On 4/10/2018 at 10:03 AM, Brunas said:

Man, am I making life harder for you guys by getting customized judge/marshall stuff? Would it be better to do stuff that's easier to sell to recoup some costs?

Brent loves his custom krayt swag and loves flaunting it when he plays even more. As long as it's good swag he'll be happy.

6 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

You assume she's going to joust back?

I'm saying I'm *WAAAAY* less concerned about her if I can stick 5-7+ damage into her on the initial engagement while only eating at most 2 (from her) and then putting her on her heels for the next several turns. Plus I don't have to worry about dealing with endless Sabine backed bombs chasing her down.

4 minutes ago, viedit said:

I'm saying I'm *WAAAAY* less concerned about her if I can stick 5-7+ damage into her on the initial engagement while only eating at most 2 (from her) and then putting her on her heals for the next several turns. Plus I don't have to worry about dealing with endless Sabine backed bombs chasing her down.

Fair. I never said she was as powerful. I said she was still obnoxious. I flew much of a year with a slim Miranda armed with a TLT supported by a trio of rookie X-Wings... If somebody committed to Miranda they paid for it. If they didn't, they couldn't take her easily in the late game.

1 hour ago, Killerardvark said:

It's like cancer chat. I post something, blink, and it's buried under another conversation.

The point of having a judge correct the match over the spectator is to filter idiot spectators from saying something out of line. Some of you spectators really are idiots and need to just shut up around games. I've had to tell a fair number to shut up or walk further away just from random comments. Tell spectators they're allowed to correct a game, but only if they know they're right and it's a thing that has to happen and holy **** you're going to get some really stupid comments. Better to just tell them to filter it through a judge.

And of course, I'm talking about that other guy. Definitely not you who is reading this right now.

We've brought it up before, but for whatever reason when a crowd gets large enough they forget players can hear them. "Do you think he should do X maneuver?" etc? We can hear you! Your suggestions are bad!

But yeah, if we're frustrated with some judges for not really knowing the rules, having players trying to correct each other is a massive pain. You're probably within your rights to tell the players to hold up a second if something catastrophic is about to happen to the board state, while you get a judge. Worst case you've just wasted a bit of time, which you've conveniently brought a judge along with you to fix...

1 hour ago, Killerardvark said:

Chris Allen, you mentioned selling swag to pay for judging expenses and maybe you screwed Brent with the personalized set. For me, I'd rather have the personalized stuff. I only really sell things if I'm given an extra set. All the rest goes into my dragon's hoard of acrylic and alt arts I may never use, but have to have. If you haven't seen it, Brent, Iain, and myself got copies of the clear/gold worlds templates made for ourselves that say "World's Judge". We actively spent extra money to get something we will never be able to sell. I actually prefer it that way. It gives me something special nobody else gets for doing something nobody else does, and it keeps the top cut player prizes on that elite level without diluting them by giving them to scrub judges. If they had an "official ffg prize pack" given to judges after they've done some arbitrary number or level of judging, I think that would be awesome.

That's what I figured, but acrylic prizes and cards and such are so cheap both might be a viable option? Or at least, it's worth asking which they'd prefer first if it's not.

2 minutes ago, jagsba said:

Brent loves his custom krayt swag and loves flaunting it when he plays even more. As long as it's good swag he'll be happy.

That's good to hear

14 minutes ago, Brunas said:

We've brought it up before, but for whatever reason when a crowd gets large enough they forget players can hear them. "Do you think he should do X maneuver?" etc? We can hear you! Your suggestions are bad!

I am really bad about that - it is actually one of the reasons why I don't spectate that much during tournaments in person. I enjoy the game so much that I have a hard time not talking about it.

24 minutes ago, Scott Pilgrim2 said:

I am really bad about that - it is actually one of the reasons why I don't spectate that much during tournaments in person. I enjoy the game so much that I have a hard time not talking about it.

Same problem. My solution is to try to play a casual game with other people who dropped.

44 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

Fair. I never said she was as powerful. I said she was still obnoxious. I flew much of a year with a slim Miranda armed with a TLT supported by a trio of rookie X-Wings... If somebody committed to Miranda they paid for it. If they didn't, they couldn't take her easily in the late game.

With all the fat Mirandas we see I think it's easy to forget that TLT/3PO slim Miranda was still a thing once upon a time and is a very tanky regen TLT carrier. LRS/3P0/TLT Miranda at 38 points isn't the terror she is when fully loaded of course, but Miranda on a diet is still an obnoxious ship.

3 minutes ago, mdl0114 said:

With all the fat Mirandas we see I think it's easy to forget that TLT/3PO slim Miranda was still a thing once upon a time and is a very tanky regen TLT carrier. LRS/3P0/TLT Miranda at 38 points isn't the terror she is when fully loaded of course, but Miranda on a diet is still an obnoxious ship.

Yeah but you have to think about natural predators to a non-bombing Miranda. If my fever dream devised solution "was a thing" I really think you'd see a major reduction in bombs. If bombs die down then aces come back in play. Aces without fear of eating a bomblet from Miranda murder her.