12 minutes ago, Do I need a Username said:

I don't know, the TIE Phantom has 4 dice as well, and has 4 defense dice, but it isn't nearly as bad. Conversely, TLT.

Um, not even close.

"waiter, I'll have what @Do I need a Username is having."

@Brunas How do I not feel like a monster? You managed Fair ship fort Chris and triple wookiees. Let’s say theoretically I want to try Fort VCX, I’ve got a bit of a weight in the pit of my stomach. I want to stare at the devs while showing how dumb we’ve all become, and then live free in hyperspace.

Why do I feel so bad about it? Should I feel bad? It’s the bad where you kinda really want to do it, but it’s not going to be fun for anyone involved.

For context: I tried a solitaire game against the full Ghost Fenn and tabled myself, having no idea what I was doing with the list and choosing the other lists dials with full knowledge of the moves I had already picked for the Ghost. I bought Hoth tickets and would like nothing better than to hang out with people. Do I just budget a beer for each opponent (and myself per round) and go for it?

Edit: apparently that’s not how you tag people

Dangit, now I'll never find out if y'all went to Chuck-e-Cheese!

@AEIllingworth - You really shouldn't feel bad if the list is fun, or that you like winning.... But if you are just doing it because you like inflicting pain, yeah... You should feel bad. Odds are you wouldn't then.

13 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

@AEIllingworth - You really shouldn't feel bad if the list is fun, or that you like winning.... But if you are just doing it because you like inflicting pain, yeah... You should feel bad. Odds are you wouldn't then.

It’s like the tower defense list, I think I want to try it once and see if “oh it works” or “that was a dumb idea” and be done, six games would probably be painful.

Thanks unironic wholesome thread for the tiny plastic spaceship therapy!

17 minutes ago, AEIllingworth said:

It’s like the tower defense list, I think I want to try it once and see if “oh it works” or “that was a dumb idea” and be done, six games would probably be painful.

Thanks unironic wholesome thread for the tiny plastic spaceship therapy!

That's my thought as well. I don't enjoy turret flying. I like the dials. That's not to say I wouldn't fly something broken if it interested me.

So on the topic that Mynock had on cancer, is the following event in bad taste? Would it be successful?

- X-wing event titled "A day without Cancer"

- all entry fees go to some pediatric cancer charity (something reputable)

- the event has a banlist of various upgrades and cards that are deemed cancerous

- prize support is something i pay for out of pocket

Also- How is Dee so great on out of context quotes?

We have him saying that 9-11 was an inside job, we have him saying FennGhost is as bad as a school shooting- if you remove the context on the quotes, they just keep coming.

2 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

That's not to say I wouldn't fly something broken if it interested me.

This, which aligns with what they've said on the podcast...if you want to play competitively, find a meta archetype you're most likely to enjoy and fly that. Why someone would play all day, running a list they don't have fun playing, regardless of their drive to win...I just don't understand that.

We're playing for cardboard and acrylic...stuff. Barring in-store gift certificates and/or after market selling of that stuff, we're not even playing for money. We're really playing to stroke our own egos. The idea, and I think the hope, is we're having fun along the way. If people are not having fun along the way, man...I think there's an emptiness inside them which needs to be addressed.

17 minutes ago, gennataos said:

This, which aligns with what they've said on the podcast...if you want to play competitively, find a meta archetype you're most likely to enjoy and fly that. Why someone would play all day, running a list they don't have fun playing, regardless of their drive to win...I just don't understand that.

We're playing for cardboard and acrylic...stuff. Barring in-store gift certificates and/or after market selling of that stuff, we're not even playing for money. We're really playing to stroke our own egos. The idea, and I think the hope, is we're having fun along the way. If people are not having fun along the way, man...I think there's an emptiness inside them which needs to be addressed.

That was super true for a while, and the ego list name is funny for just that reason. A lot of people are now playing to see the people they have met, and a certain amount of inertia.

I’ve kinda stopped playing video games because this scratches the same itch and lets me be social. I played WoW too long as well, because I could log on and talk to friends I made.

I want to go hang out with people, and it is a competitive event so I should be competitive. That’s all the thought process it takes to get to where we are.

6 hours ago, clanofwolves said:

Um, not even close.

"waiter, I'll have what @Do I need a Username is having."

Yeah, thats the point of the second bit. On the topic of what I am having, I call it "The Colorado Meta" - even though we know what is best, no one uses it.

1 hour ago, gennataos said:

If people are not having fun along the way, man...I think there's an emptiness inside them which needs to be addressed.

An emptiness that can only be filled by rolling natty crits while reveling in the reflection of a burning village in the tear filled eye of your opponent and the echoes of the lamentation of their women...

8 hours ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

So on the topic that Mynock had on cancer, is the following event in bad taste? Would it be successful?

- X-wing event titled "A day without Cancer"

- all entry fees go to some pediatric cancer charity (something reputable)

- the event has a banlist of various upgrades and cards that are deemed cancerous

- prize support is something i pay for out of pocket

I’m unsure if the name is in bad taste, the cause certainly isn’t.

’cancer’ is a pretty common and generic gaming term.

That alone isn’t sufficent defense, as vernacular changes all the time, and gaming certainly doesn’t have a good history of positive verbiage.

That said, ‘cancer’ is far more apt than ‘bad’ or ‘OP,’ because they don’t actually mean the same thing.

’Cancer’ this far has meant something that is unfun, deters people from wanting to watch or play, and [usually] competitive, and thus bad for the game.

I can see, and agree, the term can be upsetting, as it borrows from a real illness that is pervasive, life changing, and life ending.

I’m super open to finding a new term, as words have power. But also, words have power - calling something cancer, when believes to be actively bad for the game and could kill it, is apt.

So, if we want to brainstorm, great. But I don’t want to act like things don’t exist.

Serious question, if you're flying Imperials right now, when is Quickdraw not the answer? I keep making squads to try and address powerful meta squads in different ways, and every time, after a few test games, I'm like "I could really use Quickdraw in this squad to shore up some weaknesses".

Is there a more universally flexible and effective pilot available to the faction?

25 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

Serious question, if you're flying Imperials right now, when is Quickdraw not the answer? I keep making squads to try and address powerful meta squads in different ways, and every time, after a few test games, I'm like "I could really use Quickdraw in this squad to shore up some weaknesses".

Is there a more universally flexible and effective pilot available to the faction?

I always end up putting him back into every Imperial squad. Keeping up with defensive mechanics requires a ship with 8+ effective health if thats a thing (i made that # up but think gunboat HP/Agility) and anything that can do some kind of damage outside of normal activation. Quickdraw checks both those boxes. I think that says more about how rigidly balanced the Imperial faction is in general though. Every squad I build for Imperials is always just about one or two 3-4 dice attacks behind the Defense and Offense curve across the board because all the existing Defensive builds in the game have near equal if not better damage output than most 3 ship builds I end up with. I either have to catch up via a raw Alpha at the beginning of the game or Quickdraw has to be on the table or two blinded pilots handed out or semi-infinite blinded palp something is running around and away.

That sneaky 3 shield 0 hull 4th ship thats hiding behind those shields is hugely important. There are still several lists without Quickdraw that can win but there are very few lists that aren't immediately better with Quickdraw.

Definitely the most flexible pilot in the Imperial faction.

The question I have...is it actually time to swap VI for Expertise to deal with the Fenn Rau? I'm genuinely not sure.

10 hours ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

So on the topic that Mynock had on cancer, is the following event in bad taste? Would it be successful?

- X-wing event titled "A day without Cancer"

- all entry fees go to some pediatric cancer charity (something reputable)

- the event has a banlist of various upgrades and cards that are deemed cancerous

- prize support is something i pay for out of pocket

Also- How is Dee so great on out of context quotes?

We have him saying that 9-11 was an inside job, we have him saying FennGhost is as bad as a school shooting- if you remove the context on the quotes, they just keep coming.

You realize the x wing campaign against cancer event is coming up in less than a month yah?

16 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

Serious question, if you're flying Imperials right now, when is Quickdraw not the answer? I keep making squads to try and address powerful meta squads in different ways, and every time, after a few test games, I'm like "I could really use Quickdraw in this squad to shore up some weaknesses".

Is there a more universally flexible and effective pilot available to the faction?

QD is such a brawler. For me, flying her aggressively works best and I‘m always willing to trade her for someone more expensive.

To answer your question: I don‘t think so, even if I want others to be.

I‘d prefer a VaderInqNu squad, because it‘s more fun. But I need the reliable jousting value, this constant huge threat that QD brings.

Inq shines against turrets, Vader shines because he‘s doing his two actions with an open dial, both are very slippery. But both deal little damage over time, whereas QD at range 1 is a massive threat with double mods on possibly two attacks. Maybe the burst vs dot also explains why missiles are so nice on Vader and Inq.

QD also outclasses Defenders. I see no reason why I‘d bring Vess or Ryad when I can bring QD instead.

17 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

QD also outclasses Defenders. I see no reason why I‘d bring Vess or Ryad when I can bring QD instead.

Vess, as the more offensive Defender, I'd agree with but Ryad (and Inq for that matter) I feel occupies a different role than QD. QD is going to get hit, that's not only a fact of life it's also the whole point of the ship, whereas Ryad often time just plain isn't. So entering the late phases of the game I'd rather have Ryad with maybe a shield or two missing over a shieldless QD vs one ship any day. The Ghost and it's 4 TLT shots are warping things so that evade tokens aren't worth as much as it would be otherwise, so I won't dispute that QD is probably better in this meta but not sure she straight outclasses the more defensive options.

23 minutes ago, Makaze said:

Vess, as the more offensive Defender, I'd agree with but Ryad (and Inq for that matter) I feel occupies a different role than QD. QD is going to get hit, that's not only a fact of life it's also the whole point of the ship, whereas Ryad often time just plain isn't. So entering the late phases of the game I'd rather have Ryad with maybe a shield or two missing over a shieldless QD vs one ship any day. The Ghost and it's 4 TLT shots are warping things so that evade tokens aren't worth as much as it would be otherwise, so I won't dispute that QD is probably better in this meta but not sure she straight outclasses the more defensive options.

I agree, but what you are saying boils down to "I prefer a good endgame ship for the endgame over a non-endgame ship". I have to say that I made the mistake of bringing up Ryad though when she has a different role, as you say.

So let me rephrase: I see no reason why I'd bring Ryad as my late game ship when there are other endgame options that I think fit better with QD, or why I'd bring Vessery when he's outclassed by QD

11 hours ago, gennataos said:

We're playing for cardboard and acrylic...stuff. Barring in-store gift certificates and/or after market selling of that stuff, we're not even playing for money. We're really playing to stroke our own egos. The idea, and I think the hope, is we're having fun along the way. If people are not having fun along the way, man...I think there's an emptiness inside them which needs to be addressed.

This is why I don't buy the argument "you have to play XYZ to compete" (a very common refrain among a lot of podcasts). There are two things that come from winning: little pieces of plastic and social standing (ego stroking). I could buy a mountain of plastic for what it costs to travel to a tourney in the same region. Social standing doesn't mean much if you got there using something so much better than the field. It just means your matchups or dice were better. Most charitably, it means that you were the best of the people that decided to also bring broken lists.

So why do people do it? Because winning is so important (fun?) to them that they'll spend all day having not fun just to win? I don't judge, I just don't understand (okay, I judge).

I strive to make effective squads, but one common theme in basically everything I run is arced ships, because I want my decisions to matter. I find it both interesting from a gameplay perspective, and I feel like it gives any wins I might get more significance. You don't accidentally win with arced ships that can't regenerate.

25 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

So why do people do it? Because winning is so important (fun?) to them that they'll spend all day having not fun just to win?

I expect lower for a very small minority... I've watched MarioKart Wii online... I can't imagine there's much fun hacking it so that you've got infinite items. What's the point? There's zero recognition in that game, zero prizes, zero challenge when you've launched five blue shells at the same time and have a never ending star power. Where does this get fun!? Winning is everything?

I repeat though... a VERY small minority of people likely fall into this bizarre group.

This is a very common issue with video games, especialy MMOs. Players will complain that doing action X is insufferably boring, the developers will respond that they don't have to do action X that there are other more fun alternatives in the game, but if action X is even 1% more efficient then players will both never stop doing it and never stop complaining about how much they despise doing it.

43 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

You don't accidentally win with arced ships that can't regenerate.

Man i really want to believe that, but palp x7 and fang fighters might be able to prove otherwise. :/

2 hours ago, Biophysical said:

Serious question, if you're flying Imperials right now, when is Quickdraw not the answer? I keep making squads to try and address powerful meta squads in different ways, and every time, after a few test games, I'm like "I could really use Quickdraw in this squad to shore up some weaknesses".

I've been saying this since Palp/X7 nerfs a year ago. Quickdraw is the ONLY thing propping up Imperials at the moment. Howard Palp Aces, 3BQD, Imp Alpha, RAClo+QD, ALL of the competitive Imp lists except Kylo+RhoBoats rely on her. I've been saying it a long time, "You can choose one: winning or playing without Quickdraw."

13 hours ago, AEIllingworth said:

@Brunas How do I not feel like a monster? You managed Fair ship fort Chris and triple wookiees. Let’s say theoretically I want to try Fort VCX, I’ve got a bit of a weight in the pit of my stomach. I want to stare at the devs while showing how dumb we’ve all become, and then live free in hyperspace.

For context: I tried a solitaire game against the full Ghost Fenn and tabled myself, having no idea what I was doing with the list and choosing the other lists dials with full knowledge of the moves I had already picked for the Ghost. I bought Hoth tickets and would like nothing better than to hang out with people. Do I just budget a beer for each opponent (and myself per round) and go for it?

Edit: apparently that’s not how you tag people

Fort Chris I got by on proving the point. Trying to convince everyone something is degenerate and getting silence and apathy was frustrating, so just proving that yes it was actually stupid and degenerate was nice. Trip wookies I didn't even know what I was doing to people until like the day before Unplugged, and I haven't played it since. So basically, I don't know. I find them just as boring as you, which is why I'm so unhappy with the current status of the competitive game.

Basically it took

RAW

UNTAMED

HATE

to get through FSR2, unsure if I could manage 9 rounds of it unironically.

3 hours ago, Tlfj200 said:

I’m unsure if the name is in bad taste, the cause certainly isn’t.

’cancer’ is a pretty common and generic gaming term.

That alone isn’t sufficent defense, as vernacular changes all the time, and gaming certainly doesn’t have a good history of positive verbiage.

That said, ‘cancer’ is far more apt than ‘bad’ or ‘OP,’ because they don’t actually mean the same thing.

’Cancer’ this far has meant something that is unfun, deters people from wanting to watch or play, and [usually] competitive, and thus bad for the game.

I can see, and agree, the term can be upsetting, as it borrows from a real illness that is pervasive, life changing, and life ending.

I’m super open to finding a new term, as words have power. But also, words have power - calling something cancer, when believes to be actively bad for the game and could kill it, is apt.

Cancer is evocative on purpose. It's also the most apt description for the problem. The game has an issue where some of it's pieces are actively working to destroy the rest of it.

Changing words just to change them is silly, but if there's a better word I'm all for it. Tumor has the same problem - actually, maybe it's desensitization from the internet for so longer, but tumor makes me think of cancer more than calling something cancer...

1 hour ago, Biophysical said:

Serious question, if you're flying Imperials right now, when is Quickdraw not the answer? I keep making squads to try and address powerful meta squads in different ways, and every time, after a few test games, I'm like "I could really use Quickdraw in this squad to shore up some weaknesses".

Is there a more universally flexible and effective pilot available to the faction?

Quickdraw does appear to just be the answer, which is boring. Also, lol at past @Brunas saying quickdraw wasn't good because it was too fair. Also, why can I tag myself. Will I get a notification?

Pretty funny though, all Imperial lists start with Palp Yorr, and then either quiz or QD or both. And that's the most fun list in the game that's actually competitive.

3 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

This is why I don't buy the argument "you have to play XYZ to compete" (a very common refrain among a lot of podcasts) <trying to prevent giant wall of text> Most charitably, it means that you were the best of the people that decided to also bring broken lists.

So why do people do it? Because winning is so important (fun?) to them that they'll spend all day having not fun just to win? I don't judge, I just don't understand (okay, I judge).

I strive to make effective squads, but one common theme in basically everything I run is arced ships, because I want my decisions to matter. I find it both interesting from a gameplay perspective, and I feel like it gives any wins I might get more significance. You don't accidentally win with arced ships that can't regenerate.

I don't know why people do it. I know there are people that enjoy the current most competitive metagame, or at least claim to. It does exactly mean that they were the best of the people that decided to bring broken lists. In VA the last "fair" list we had was Kylo and two mangler boats and thweek + 3 starvipers, and they were annihilated the second they hit "real" lists. Probably just means how you define compete, which I would put at what maximizes your chances of winning an event, and there's only 2-3 lists that will do that

22 minutes ago, catachanninja said:

Man i really want to believe that, but palp x7 and fang fighters might be able to prove otherwise. :/

The exceptions that test the rule, certainly. I would say that the time of accidental wins with those lists is probably over, as power creep and minor nerfs have eroded some of the raw list power, but I may be wrong.