I'm interested to see how the pricing on V-Wings comes out. I hate the aesthetic of the ship, but it's cool that they are exploring the design space of a 3 Agility ship that is rewarded for not using focus.

2 minutes ago, Transmogrifier said:

I'm interested to see how the pricing on V-Wings comes out. I hate the aesthetic of the ship, but it's cool that they are exploring the design space of a 3 Agility ship that is rewarded for not using focus.

Quote

At its simplest, pilots like the Republic’sLoyalist Volunteers or Shadow Squadron Escorts can use the inexpensive chassis to overwhelm opponents with superior numbers.

Guessing the generics in the low-mid 30s? Sub-40 at least, as the article implies swarms.

17 minutes ago, Spinland said:

Guessing the generics in the low-mid 30s? Sub-40 at least, as the article implies swarms.

Aren’t they a closest comparison to Scyks? 2 attack, 3 agility, 4 hp. I expect the cheapest generic to be 28 or less, for sure.

edit: they are going to probably fill very similar list building spots as torrents.

Just now, AEIllingworth said:

Aren’t they a closest comparison to Scyks? 2 attack, 3 agility, 4 hp. I expect the cheapest generic to be 28 or less, for sure.

Sounds reasonable. I'm new at this cost-guessing game. I just divided 200 by 6 and extrapolated from there. 😎

1 hour ago, Transmogrifier said:

I hate the aesthetic of the ship

Me about essentially every Clone Wars era design.

N-1, and then... nada.

1 hour ago, Transmogrifier said:

I'm interested to see how the pricing on V-Wings comes out. It's cool that they are exploring the design space of a 3 Agility ship that is rewarded for not using focus.

I'm guessing 27-28 with a config. The actions are a bit better than a TIE/fo or a Scyk, and the configs are OK. Not as powerful as an Ion Cannon or Advanced Optics, so worth a bit less than that.

I'm also guessing 0-points for the cheapest config, maybe both configs. Having these at 25-26 with non-zero configs really causes problems for Torrent balance, but 28 with a config included just seems like it'd work better.

I think 27 is about right for a generic with a config. These are a lot like Rebel A-wings but with an emphasis on offense over defense. i1 A-Wings at 29 aren't played, i3 TIE v1s at 28 are relevant, so 27 for i2 V-Wing with config seems about right - *maybe* 28, but I can't see paying more.

3 hours ago, MasterShake2 said:

I run 4-8 ship lists and usually multiples or entirely of the same chasis, barely remember what I dialed in when it comes time to execute maneuvers, put the dials off to the side in no particular order and all of the information about the maneuvers leaves my brain to save space for the porn section. Having like 3 pilots in the game where I have to dredge up that otherwise completely useless and irrelevant information in the combat phase annoys me to an unreasonable degree.

The rules reference states that where your dials are supposed to go.

Quote

1. Reveal Dial: The ship’s assigned dial is revealed by flipping it faceup and then placing it next to its ship card.

Without a config, I guess this is worth at least 1 point more than a Scyk or TIE/fo. Besh seems like almost-Advanced Optics (with the caveat that Locks are harder than Focus) in effect, so 2 points seems fair what it contributes to total value. 25 + 1 + 2 = 28. That's my thought process.

But then, TIE/v1 at 28 are probably better than these, so 27 doesn't seem absurd.

And if this is 27, dangnation does it make the 29 point RZ-1. Look. So. Very. Overpriced.

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

But then, TIE/v1 at 28 are probably better than these, so 27 doesn't seem absurd.

Tbf, I think Barons are a bit undercosted. I like em a lot.

Blog #10

I like V-Wings.

They are fun.

41 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:

Tbf, I think Barons are a bit undercosted. I like em a lot.

They probably would be making showings if it wasn't mosquito season.

50 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:

Tbf, I think Barons are a bit undercosted. I like em a lot.

At most by like, a point, though? The named Inquisitors (the i4 ones, GI was stranded in Peru for 7 months due to coronavirus) seem to bully hyperspace to the tune of like 4pts too cheap apiece, but I've felt pretty good playing random bad lists into baron-ocho menos uno.

6 hours ago, Transmogrifier said:

I think 27 is about right for a generic with a config. These are a lot like Rebel A-wings but with an emphasis on offense over defense. i1 A-Wings at 29 aren't played, i3 TIE v1s at 28 are relevant, so 27 for i2 V-Wing with config seems about right - *maybe* 28, but I can't see paying more.

Something Something Rz-1s should probably come down a point or two. (at least the I-1. I-3 maybe, it feels ok at 32)

Something something you should just run RZ-2s.

Something something But muh rebels!

Something something RZ-2s are degenerate.

This concludes our weekly A-wing discussion. Please tune in next week for the same discussion all over again!

4 hours ago, svelok said:

At most by like, a point, though?

29 Barons and Green RZ-1 and Shadow Vs.

27 Phoenix RZ-1 and Volunteer Vs.

8 hours ago, svelok said:

At most by like, a point, though? ...I've felt pretty good playing random bad lists into baron-ocho menos uno.

Maybe? I'd be tempted to say 30 even. Boost or roll into focus and all of the lovely dial, puts them a touch above all the other pocket rockets (that don't have turrets).

I think Baron swarm is possibly not best use. Chuck missiles and maybe Sensor on 2, or nowt on 3, and bring other things. They can get a bit more nasty than what others can.

Did Jagsba really just go through and read this whole **** thing? Why am I getting notifications for comments from 2017?

8 hours ago, Cuz05 said:

Boost or roll into focus and all of the lovely dial, puts them a touch above all the other pocket rockets

sure but all of those are bad?

RZ1s, which are bad, isn't the reference point. zizi or holo or fifth bro or whatever is

21 hours ago, AEIllingworth said:

Aren’t they a closest comparison to Scyks? 2 attack, 3 agility, 4 hp. I expect the cheapest generic to be 28 or less, for sure.

edit: they are going to probably fill very similar list building spots as torrents.

meaningfully different dial though, that said, theyll probably take roles that torrents took and do them better when paired with jedi

22 minutes ago, Timathius said:

Did Jagsba really just go through and read this whole **** thing? Why am I getting notifications for comments from 2017?

the real question, did he find the definition of an ace?

21 hours ago, Spinland said:

Guessing the generics in the low-mid 30s? Sub-40 at least, as the article implies swarms.

Like Nantex pricing? *weeps*

Actual serious note, I'd almost say just sub 30 for the cheapest. Mostly worse than an RZ-1.

Barons are solid but not really anything that would or should warrant concern from anyone at 28 pts. They are an example of a generic that is priced correctly to make it useful in games that would otherwise be comically mismatched. I have played against 7 Baron lists and used lists with 3-4 Barons a half dozen times in Hyperspace and never once walked away from the game thinking "man thats a problem". I have played with and against 5th and 7th and thought to myself "why on earth are these 2x force charge ships so cheap".

I am once again asking that we Raise Ace Taxes so we can escape the race to make everything thats bad in extended cheaper.

Or ya know just collectively decide to play Hyperspace where the ban list already approximates said Ace Taxes via PDF Border Walls. A format where we are not trapped in an endless **** of having to guess at what magical point cost will make things relevant without upsetting the legions of anti-swarm and anti-low initiative players preference to never see 6-8 ship lists that have 50/50 or better matchups against their 2-4 ship named "ace" jouster lists. Also a format where lower ship count lists have substantially less difficult average matchups if 2-3 ships is your jam (and you like to play Boba, Kylo, or Falcons).

Or we can just continue acting like there is a possible Extended timeline where point costs are anything other than signal fire beacons to influence the direction of meta preferences for a dumpster fire card pool the size of texas.

Friendly reminder that Extended is still an incredibly difficult format for FFG to balance via point costs with their ban hammer tied behind their back. The best they can do is occasionally shine a light on things they want people to try. Barons at 28 pts are "fine".

23 minutes ago, catachanninja said:

meaningfully different dial though, that said, theyll probably take roles that torrents took and do them better when paired with jedi

the real question, did he find the definition of an ace?

Digging through this thread is like an Adeptus Mechanicus expedition to find things from the dark age of technology. You may find something awesome, useless or terrifying...or all three.

28 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

Like Nantex pricing? *weeps*

Actual serious note, I'd almost say just sub 30 for the cheapest. Mostly worse than an RZ-1.

Heh. I’d like to think these little jewels don’t share the problems Spamtex inflicts—but I’m far from expert at spotting related red flags. Simplistically speaking I’d think costed so you could just fit six naked versions of the cheapest one, but whadda I know? 😎

1 hour ago, MasterShake2 said:

Digging through this thread is like an Adeptus Mechanicus expedition to find things from the dark age of technology. You may find something awesome, useless or terrifying...or all three.

So awesomely useless it's terrifying?

Just to say, I don't think Barons are a problem at 28, in this wonky meta. They just make similarly costed things look bad. Like, I1 Scyks are good, even 26pt good, but only 2pt worse than a Baron.... ?

25pt FO is really good, could easily be 26. Again, only 2/3pt for all the extra a Baron has?

The continuing buffing of things via price drops causes problems. The Baron drop cast extra shade on some stuff.

Poor RZ-1s. Buffs to similar but better things, and other similar but better things coming out at comparable prices just makes them even worse.

I mean, all this is just bad trickle down from the high Init tax breaks. Balancing up from the bottom was never a smart idea.

22 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:

Just to say, I don't think Barons are a problem at 28, in this wonky meta. They just make similarly costed things look bad. Like, I1 Scyks are good, even 26pt good, but only 2pt worse than a Baron.... ?

25pt FO is really good, could easily be 26. Again, only 2/3pt for all the extra a Baron has?

The continuing buffing of things via price drops causes problems. The Baron drop cast extra shade on some stuff.

Poor RZ-1s. Buffs to similar but better things, and other similar but better things coming out at comparable prices just makes them even worse.

I mean, all this is just bad trickle down from the high Init tax breaks. Balancing up from the bottom was never a smart idea.

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