If it's just online so we shouldn't care, why are we seeing the same names that win IRL doing well?
Look at the top cut matchups and the names and lists. Do you honestly believe that Spamtex won every game that they played in the top 32 because the other player was bad at X-Wing? Really?
19 hours ago, gamblertuba said:That's something that I think a lot of folks are discounting. If Spamtex gets a terrible dice roll, they lost 34-ish points and have 5 other ships just like it ready to continue the fight. If you have a bad dice roll against them as Aces, you might be done. And they throw buckets of dice every round.
Edit to add
#justtoocheap
.
Basically just this.
what everyone is describing is an efficient swarm. I’m not disagreeing it’s too cheap, but at the core, it’s a swarm, is all...
...and people hate swarms.
19 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:Your choices are and have been: Spamtex, Sloaneswarms, Droidswarms - or high i
The first 3 are 10/32 lists. Out of the rest, only 5/22 don't bring i5-6.
Are you still pretending ...?
that seems about right, except it loosely appears the droid swarms aren’t invited, but I don’t care enough to stand behind that.
13 minutes ago, gamblertuba said:If it's just online so we shouldn't care, why are we seeing the same names that win IRL doing well?
Look at the top cut matchups and the names and lists. Do you honestly believe that Spamtex won every game that they played in the top 32 because the other player was bad at X-Wing? Really?
I FeEl lIke sOmE heRe AsSuMe mY aRgUmenT iS diSinGenUouS
e: @Kyle Ren you give me no reason to believe you are actually interested in any form of good faith discussion, or that you are not being disingenuous.
Edited by GreenDragoon1 hour ago, GreenDragoon said:why you think dorsal agressors for 28 is bad
The spam is fine (with Sloane) but I don't think the ship is good enough like the similar ships that other factions have (Hyenas, TIE/fo or Scyks). Also, lacks punch and I think suffers against the beefy lists that Resistance and Rebels could deploy.
The dorsal is cheaper but doesn't justifies an expensive chassis (not much, but still one point more than the V-19 Torrent, that is a little overpriced too).
You pay a 3-4 points taxe for another arc, that doesn't reach range 3 on a ship that can be initiative killed at short ranges.
For me, it's not good enough, but is an interesting meta call in this tournament.
Edited by S4ul058 minutes ago, gennataos said:I was hoping you’d be helpful. Sad.
1) How is that not helpful?
2) What do you want me to say?
2 minutes ago, S4ul0 said:The spam is fine (with Sloane) but I don't think the ship is good enough like the similar ships that other factions have (Hyenas, TIE/fo or Scyks). Also, lacks punch and I think suffers against the beefy lists that Resistance and Rebels could deploy.
The dorsal is cheaper but don't justifies an expensive chassis (not much, but still one point more than the V-19 Torrent, that is a little overpriced too).
You paid a 3-4 points taxe for another arc, that don't reach range 3 on a ship that can be initiative killed at short ranges.
For me, it's not good enough, but is an interesting meta call in this tournament.
No disagreement from my side that sloane makes them better.
The hypothesis is that we underestimate the strength of time on target, here in the form of extra arcs.
We can compare different swarm lists now. Within the faction in extended, there are 7, 6, 5 and 4ship sloane "swarms". The initial reaper with 2 snips and 4 tie fighters, this here, RAC with 4 tie fighters, or RAC with 3 snips.
All are very good lists, all make different trade-offs. That alone, having aggressors in a list I call very good, is already interesting. I wonder why aggressors are worse than academies or alphas, if you think that they are.
We can also compare with other swarm lists where it becomes apparent how important sloane is. But that is fine in my opinion, because xwing has to be balanced at list level
35 minutes ago, Chumbalaya said:1) How is that not helpful?
2) What do you want me to say?
I’m not new, I know how to play the game. I’ve played as the nantex and against the nantex. Thought you might have some real world, on the table (virtual or not) insight.
7 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:All are very good lists, all make different trade-offs. That alone, having aggressors in a list I call very good, is already interesting. I wonder why aggressors are worse than academies or alphas, if you think that they are.
Well, I don't know. Between all the Sloane lists, it depends on player preferences.
But without Sloane, I think the Alpha or Academy Pilots are better fillers than the Sienar, so the Sienar is not the best of them?
14 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:The hypothesis is that we underestimate the strength of time on target, here in the form of extra arcs.
I think you overestimate that. The list is strong because Sloane, not because the turrets.
We can compare the time on target of the Nantex (a naked Guard is only 1 point more expensive than the dorsal Sienar) and we have rotate, reposition, range 3, and mods with a better chassis.
Yes, the Nantex are undercosted, but there is a huge difference.
Ofc Nantex are undercosted by 2/3/4pts, it couldn't be more obvious. I've grown confused as to whether this is actually being debated.
Claiming it's good for the game, or it's fine that it is this way, or whatever, is kinda preposterous. It's like preferring to be kicked in the shin over being kicked in the ankle.
Or preferring to kick people in the shins before they kick you in the ankle. Which is how you collapse society.
Churn is nice and all that, but tidal waves are daft.
The talents make a big difference and that kind of slot fillage on a higher init spam list is generally a bad sign. This is always where the extra points show.... is it time to talk about RZ-2s again?
They'll give it a few more tourneys, maybe patch it if the unparalleled success continues. You could declare whether this will happen/needs to happen, or not, I don't mind skipping posts.
Personally, I'd prefer, if the dominant archetype shoe has to be on one foot or the other, that it be on the one that has more than one (or 2) chassis going for it.
But ofc, it doesn't have to be.
I should probably just delete this but I'm not gonna, dammit.
Sloane has always been excess design. Her range bubble is 1 too many and has created a top heavy card that will always fall one side of the fence or the other.
Edited by Cuz0553 minutes ago, gennataos said:I’m not new, I know how to play the game. I’ve played as the nantex and against the nantex. Thought you might have some real world, on the table (virtual or not) insight.
I know people who have played this game for 7 years and still just joust stuff. I know them because they're me. Don't box joust.
This probably goes for everyone. Next time you see Nantexans take a picture of the first 3 turns and post them here. I will tell you to not joust, you'll get mad at me, and we'll go about our day.
56 minutes ago, Chumbalaya said:I know people who have played this game for 7 years and still just joust stuff. I know them because they're me. Don't box joust.
This probably goes for everyone. Next time you see Nantexans take a picture of the first 3 turns and post them here. I will tell you to not joust, you'll get mad at me, and we'll go about our day.
I'm not mad, I'm sad. I said that already, scroll up. 
On 4/15/2019 at 2:54 PM, MCRemix said:Idk man...this reminds me of the old defense of Ghost Fenn or Final Form bc every maneuver felt significant...when in reality they matter way less than for other ships.
Remember when we were ******* about Handbrake Jake being NPE and how Juke Phantoms defeated it in the Adepticon final partly because the final is a 2 hour game? And when people insisted that neither of those lists were bad for the game and just fine despite disproportionate cut rates? Good times.
Just don't joust the Phantoms... except they don't suffer too much from being arc-dodged and can turn on a dime to punish your arc Dodge the next turn. And this was back when your choices for purple aces that don't care about Juke are:
Vader, Luke, Kylo, and that's it.
No list is unbeatable. But that does not make every list wholesome and in the spirit of the game's objective of setting dials for dodges or killboxes with engaging asymetric but equal pointed forces with your opponents in such a way that your trades are better. The very idea of points is the same for currency and not a barter system: a universal quantity of value indicator.
Edited by Hoarder of Garlic BreadWhere’s Ki-adi Mundi with his flamethrower trooper crew upgrade?
1 hour ago, FlyingAnchors said:Where’s Ki-adi Mundi with his flamethrower trooper crew upgrade?
The whole LAAT expansion should make this conversation vastly more interesting.
These next two waves have me very excited.
3 hours ago, Bucknife said:The whole LAAT expansion should make this conversation vastly more interesting.
These next two waves have me very excited.
These next two waves have me very....cautious.
What could be bad about a Republic "General Rieekan" style upgrade that keeps destroyed ships on the board long enough to shoot back?
That's not faction-defining levels of good at all...
Oh yeah...
Sinker is I3.
Xi shuttle looks crazy.
We'll see, buddy. We'll see.
4 minutes ago, Bucknife said:What could be bad about a Republic "General Rieekan" style upgrade that keeps destroyed ships on the board long enough to shoot back?
That's not faction-defining levels of good at all...
Oh yeah...
Sinker is I3.
Xi shuttle looks crazy.
We'll see, buddy. We'll see.
Sinker is good, but I prefer to max out on missile Synced Console Torrents with Wolfpack on Warthog. 3 dice are better than 2 dice reroll.
Playing around with a few things in the wee hours. The biggest problem with Soontir + 3 Heightened Perception Passive Sensors Mag Pulse Inkys is that you only get 6 unblockable perfect knowledge-locking I7 Mag Pulses that can crit-synergize to init-kill or spread out to neuter 3 attacks. That's not a ghucking joke.
It's decent, but not good enough by most metrics.
Edited by Hoarder of Garlic Bread4 hours ago, Bucknife said:What could be bad about a Republic "General Rieekan" style upgrade that keeps destroyed ships on the board long enough to shoot back?
warthog deserves to be a core rule
public request: please stop calling it """spamtex"""
even just "six paces" would be a better name
6 hours ago, Bucknife said:What could be bad about a Republic "General Rieekan" style upgrade that keeps destroyed ships on the board long enough to shoot back?
As examples, Hondo and Ayala (for her focus->coordinate) are the kinds of things upon which machines are built.
https://listfortress.com/tournaments/1836
only one list in this entire event took zealous recruits?
34 minutes ago, svelok said:https://listfortress.com/tournaments/1836
only one list in this entire event took zealous recruits?
Why would you want to fly something that is literally helpless against the current meta hotness?
9 hours ago, Bucknife said:What could be bad about a Republic "General Rieekan" style upgrade that keeps destroyed ships on the board long enough to shoot back?
That's not faction-defining levels of good at all...
Oh yeah...
Sinker is I3.
Xi shuttle looks crazy.
We'll see, buddy. We'll see.
Have you ever heard the tale of the Magnificient 7. I thought not. It's not the kind of tale you'd hear from an X-Wing player. It's an Armada Legend. Rieeken was so wise and so powerful that he could keep unique squadrons and ships from dying. It's an ability some consider to be unnatural. They were so wise and so powerful that the only thing they were afraid of was losing their power, which, of course, they did. Seven separate nerfs across the fleet including the first ever nerf to an admiral and both ship titles Yavaris and Gallant Haven. It's ironic, this fleet could protect itself from dying, but not from the nerf hammer.
*magnificient 7 rides off into the sunset*
Edited by MasterShake2