4 hours ago, gennataos said:

This is fine. It’s only an online event, people aren’t really trying. It’s only one of two events, this data set isn’t meaningful.

This but unironically

8 minutes ago, Bucknife said:

I don't think I mind 6PAAs with predator.

It's Crack that puts them over

they don't get pred either in hyp

My LBnext app says VTG is 7 pts on Large base...

I thought they reduced that down to 4pts for large?

Regardless...

Large bases need all the help they can get at the moment...

EDIT:

And why on Earth is ablative plating not free on Resistance bombers?

I don’t really understand the logic behind any of this

If nantex are OP because they did well at this particular event, are we also supposed to conclude that TIE Aggressors are one of the best ships in the game because they also made the cut? Isn’t the narrative that aggressors are a meme ship and unplayable trash?

Either way, sure if the takeaway is to come play hyperspace instead I’m in, defend the fort

8 minutes ago, Kyle Ren said:

If nantex are OP because they did well at this particular event, are we also supposed to conclude that TIE Aggressors are one of the best ships in the game because they also made the cut? Isn’t the narrative that aggressors are a meme ship and unplayable trash?

Are you really asking or just memeing?

Just now, GreenDragoon said:

Are you really asking or just memeing?

Some will posit that 20 pt Nantex are healthy for the game bc they have no purple and their orange is only moderately high. Not picking on anyone, but we have to abandon the idea that aces can't swarm and vice versa.

14 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Are you really asking or just memeing?

I’m actually asking a question: do we think

option A: the entire community was 180 degrees wrong and tie aggressors are actually the best generic tie in the empire arsenal

option B: this tournament should still be taken with a grain of salt and panicking about lists that did well at it is unnecessary

22 minutes ago, Kyle Ren said:

If nantex are OP because they did well at this particular event, are we also supposed to conclude that TIE Aggressors are one of the best ships in the game because they also made the cut? Isn’t the narrative that aggressors are a meme ship and unplayable trash?

Sloane is very strong (Player's skill aside) That's it.

39 minutes ago, Kyle Ren said:

I don’t really understand the logic behind any of this

If nantex are OP because they did well at this particular event, are we also supposed to conclude that TIE Aggressors are one of the best ships in the game because they also made the cut? Isn’t the narrative that aggressors are a meme ship and unplayable trash?

Either way, sure if the takeaway is to come play hyperspace instead I’m in, defend the fort

Are you missing the fact aggressors play with sloane, the next best thing after nantex?

And that they were just one list while in the whole tournament while out of 12 spamtex, counting even some not that good as straight spamtex, half the top 8 were nantex? Or that the spamtex in the cut only dropped games to the mirror?

I hope you are trolling like chumba

16 minutes ago, Kyle Ren said:

option A: the entire community was 180 degrees wrong and tie aggressors are actually the best generic tie in the empire arsenal

Yes. https://spaceowlsxwing.blogspot.com/2020/07/ship-effectiveness-model-v18-and-july.html

It is probably true that the entire community was 180° wrong. As they were on Leia, or Dengar right now, and many other examples. (To a large degree because of Sloane as Sunitsa mentions)

16 minutes ago, Kyle Ren said:

option B: this tournament should still be taken with a grain of salt and panicking about lists that did well at it is unnecessary

This tournament, as every in 2.0, should be taken with a grain of salt. Spamtex though belongs on a watchlist, and the second event in a row means that it got just a bit worse. No panick level yet, but getting there.

15 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

No panick level yet, but getting there.

Did any large bases make top 8/16/32?

I feel like a couple people here are assuming that my arguments are disingenuous because of my previous stance on "acejoust: tmg" and my love for generic swarms

I would like to point out that I held the same beliefs about Space Jam as I do about Galaxies, even though the results of Space Jam supported my "narrative": the top 8 at Space Jam Rome had three two-ship Boba lists and two three-ship Soontir/Vader+ lists.

Competitive online play is an oxymoron. As someone who has played in a lot of online tournaments,I have seen that the game depends on everyone wanting to have fun much more than even IRL X-Wing. These events all have a lot of players but they are no more competitive than the average store champ. I would not let 10 store champs decide my opinions on anything, nor would I allow 5 large TTS store champs to decide my opinions.

You may be right that nantex are "underpriced" compared to some ideal, balanced pool (idk, most of the rebel hyperspace pool or something), but I just don't see them standing out as significantly unbalanced compared to the other 30 things in the extended pool that I find gross.

I also think that the argument comes down to feels, two kinds of feels specifically: feels in-game, and feels about results.

feels in-game about nantex are a little on the "bad" side because of the potential for initiative kills and the ability to rotate and reposition after bumping, but blocking them still hurts them and I feel most things have counterplay options.

feels about results is what I'm going to go out on a limb and say most people here are reacting to, which is the feels that certain lists just shouldn't ever win. Whether it's because they're not "muh iconic characters" or because generics don't deserve to exist, I think a lot of people just hate seeing nantex winning, which is totally different than hating playing against them. I don't know if the meta should be balanced around muh iconic characters or not but I think this is the reaction we're seeing mostly.

2 minutes ago, Bucknife said:

Did any large bases make top 8/16/32?

several

several Rey, 2x DashGhost

14 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

It is probably true that the entire community was 180° wrong

If the Agressor is the best generic ship in the Imperial Arsenal I understand why the majority of Imperial players play Aces.

The Agressor is not a good choice, neither the Alpha or Academy Pilots. They are playable because Sloane.

And I think other factions have better jousters (and efficient) lists. Sloane mades a better matchup against Aces.

6 minutes ago, S4ul0 said:

If the Agressor is the best generic ship in the Imperial Arsenal I understand why the majority of Imperial players play Aces.

The Agressor is not a good choice, neither the Alpha or Academy Pilots. They are playable because Sloane.

And I think other factions have better jousters (and efficient) lists. Sloane mades a better matchup against Aces.

Why?

4 minutes ago, Kyle Ren said:

Competitive online play is an oxymoron. As someone who has played in a lot of online tournaments,I have seen that the game depends on everyone wanting to have fun much more than even IRL X-Wing.

Interesting. Online competitive play doesn't have the same resource investment necessary so less "I've payed out x for these ships and know how they work.", "I'd like to use "x", but I can't find it anywhere.", or "I'm traveling to "x", it is costing me "z" so what I bring had better work." and more "plug in a list and play". This may actually lend to being a more accurate representation of a format's balance since cost to acquire, chance to acquire, and cost to travel are no longer as large of factors, if factors at all for online play (there may be some that have travel to be able to access the necessary infrastructure to play, but I think those are probably rare).

Assuming that Warthog + Wollfepack <= 50 pt., you can fit him and 5 Cluster Synced Console Torrents. Since swarms of aces that joust things to initiative kill are thwarted by Warthog, it might be good. I'd prefer to fit 5 Concussion Synced Console Torrents, but beggars can't be choosers. A mix of munitions might be possible.

5 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Why?

Which part? The two stress tokens, rerolls and the objetives priority puzzle? Or the utility of that low Initiative pilots?

Would you rather: 6 I1 Vultures and 2 I1 Bombers, or a spam of efficient aces that are better than the most efficient of swarms with squad buffs?

-This was from @GreenDragoon's post. I didn't want people to see the title and click off without looking at his straight-up numbers-

Just now, S4ul0 said:

Which part? The two stress tokens, rerolls and the objetives priority puzzle? Or the utility of that low Initiative pilots?

why you think dorsal agressors for 28 is bad

2 hours ago, Chumbalaya said:

"Git gud" includes among other things

-Don't thonkjoust

-Don't diagonal joust, see thonkjoust

-Play Hyperspace

-Don't sit in 4 bullseyes

I was hoping you’d be helpful. Sad.

2 hours ago, svelok said:

they don't get pred either in hyp

43 minutes ago, Kyle Ren said:

I feel like a couple people here are assuming that my arguments are disingenuous because of my previous stance on "acejoust: tmg" and my love for generic swarms

Yes, I wonder why

Guys.

I'm genuinely interested in the next phase of the meta: recalibration.

We've seen things be good in two largish tourneys.

A lot of good players tried a lot of different things.

Certain lists pushed through.

I'm interested in talking about viable recalibrated lists.

We have a lot of tools in the toolbox... especially in extended.

A tool doesn't have to be perfectly costed to use effectively.

Let's change prospective here and do a little theorycrafting experiment: which lists do you think can face spamtex at least on equal footing?