1 hour ago, ClassicalMoser said:

That's called annoying semantics. You know what I meant.

Edit: Wow I'm dumb. Also apparently on a short fuse today. Sorry.

So, I'm sure I'm late to the party here...

But aren't SpamTex just blatantly undercosted?

You can't even fit 6 Initiative 3 RZ2s with crack in a list, but somehow 6 I4s with double talents are okay?

FakeTexans

(34) Green Squadron Expert [RZ-2 A-wing]
(2) Crack Shot
Points: 36

(34) Green Squadron Expert [RZ-2 A-wing]
(2) Crack Shot
Points: 36

(34) Green Squadron Expert [RZ-2 A-wing]
(2) Crack Shot
Points: 36

(34) Green Squadron Expert [RZ-2 A-wing]
(2) Crack Shot
Points: 36

(34) Green Squadron Expert [RZ-2 A-wing]
(2) Crack Shot
Points: 36

(34) Green Squadron Expert [RZ-2 A-wing]
(2) Crack Shot
Points: 36

Total points: 216

It's the shields

32 minutes ago, Bucknife said:

So, I'm sure I'm late to the party here...

But aren't SpamTex just blatantly undercosted?

Yeah, pretty much. They were pretty blatantly overcosted before, but they should probably have come down 4-6 points instead of 8. But the game has survived having worse things for 6 months.

I haven't watched full games from Corellia yet, but based on what I have seen it appears that people weren't really forcing them to reposition/rotate, and instead were just parking in front of the blob. I'm interested to see if they maintain their current levels of performance at upcoming events once people start learning some tricks to use against them.

16 minutes ago, catachanninja said:

It's the shields

I'm curious to see if APTs, Discords, DB Missiles, Bombs and Traj Sims are enough to blast SpamTex out of the cuts.

I'm inclined to say, "no"....

Survey results update version 1.0012

1 hour ago, DR4CO said:

I'm interested to see if they maintain their current levels of performance at upcoming events once people start learning some tricks to use against them.

The issue I see is that, contrary to 5Yions back in wave 2, the SpamTex swarm sits at I4.

There's really no room for any other mid-range in competition against that... You have to run 1+ I5+s, or maybe you can get by with a Disco Swarm.

Head sims have been very bad here, no matter how I spin it.

4 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Do you want zero-agility torrents?

No! Not Torrents! ARCS!

And yes, sometimes they might be 0-agility. Mostly, I think it's useful that you *can* keep doing it, even if sometimes you shouldn't.

At very least, I think Hawk shouldn't be considered DOA like Swoop (who is clearly terrible), and ought to be felt-out in some online play first. There's something appealing about getting ARCs to move that fast, and I think it might be easier than folks suspect.

9 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Hawk/ARC/ARC/{best ace you can afford} could be cool. That's one dang fast moving anvil.

Read the article, brain melted and refused to understand ALL THE DIIFFERENT SYNERGIES.... But I did come away with this 4 ship list poking at my awareness.

I knew there was a reason blue 1 and 2 banks were super cool on the ARC dial....

Now to work out how on Earth you make an approach where Hawks ability will be useful for more than 1 turn.....

(Takes Expert Handling on 2 Squad 7 vets and turns a reasonable idea into a bad one)

(adds Battle Med CLT Plo, sees 49pt of room.... hm. maybe..... Ok, can now roll both ARCs at I5 and boost them at Iinfinity. Bad. Bad. Bad. But this is how my brain works.)

NVM.

12 hours ago, Bucknife said:

So, I'm sure I'm late to the party here...

But aren't SpamTex just blatantly undercosted?

You can't even fit 6 Initiative 3 RZ2s with crack in a list, but somehow 6 I4s with double talents are okay?

FakeTexans

(34) Green Squadron Expert [RZ-2 A-wing]
(2) Crack Shot
Points: 36

(34) Green Squadron Expert [RZ-2 A-wing]
(2) Crack Shot
Points: 36

(34) Green Squadron Expert [RZ-2 A-wing]
(2) Crack Shot
Points: 36

(34) Green Squadron Expert [RZ-2 A-wing]
(2) Crack Shot
Points: 36

(34) Green Squadron Expert [RZ-2 A-wing]
(2) Crack Shot
Points: 36

(34) Green Squadron Expert [RZ-2 A-wing]
(2) Crack Shot
Points: 36

Total points: 216

Are nantex too cheap? Maybe(tm). Are a-wings the proper comparison for a comparable competitive ship? No.

10 hours ago, Bucknife said:

The issue I see is that, contrary to 5Yions back in wave 2, the SpamTex swarm sits at I4.

There's really no room for any other mid-range in competition against that... You have to run 1+ I5+s, or maybe you can get by with a Disco Swarm.

Head sims have been very bad here, no matter how I spin it.

Fun fact, something like 66% of lists have an i5+ ship in them already

10 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

No! Not Torrents! ARCS!

And yes, sometimes they might be 0-agility.

When I have a 1 agility ship in my list, my brain automatically assumes it is a 0 agility ship anyway.

14 minutes ago, jagsba said:

Are a-wings the proper comparison for a comparable competitive ship? No.

Why not? They seem to be the best comparison for capabilities. Plus, somehow they still show up as sad on Boomowl's random list.

And considering the lower i and higher cost while also being non competitive: does that mean we should see a 3pt reduction for rz2s?

21 minutes ago, jagsba said:

Are a-wings the proper comparison for a comparable competitive ship? No.

The Nantex is somewhere in between the A-Wing and the HWK, except without shields.

GSP Worlds #1:

Bad = Probably actually a no quotes bad list

"Ace" = Contains an "Ace". Quotes Ace is a broader definition than no quotes ace.

These were identified separately. Did not back into the Bad % by subtracting "Ace" from the total.

33 minutes ago, jagsba said:

Are nantex too cheap? Maybe(tm). Are a-wings the proper comparison for a comparable competitive ship? No.

RZ-1s certainly aren't. RZ-2s are the closest ship to the Nantex in terms of, well, everything. They're "turret" ships with the same statline (sorta) with access to a bonus reposition action each turn.

3 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

RZ-2s are the closest ship to the Nantex in terms of, well, everything. They're "turret" ships with the same statline (sorta) with access to a bonus reposition action each turn.

And the naked I1 costs as much as a Crack Shot I4 nantex.

Maybe(tm) *giggle*

Just now, gennataos said:

And the naked I1 costs as much as a Crack Shot I4 nantex.

Maybe(tm) *giggle*

I mean, I think it's not really a coincidence that Nantex were trash when they cost significantly more than RZ-2s, and that Nantex are probably a bit too strong when they cost significantly less than RZ-2s.

Our enby buggy buddies ought to cost pretty much the same as RZ-2s.

The I3 RZ-2 is 34. I'll accept that for the I3 and 35 for the I4. Ship it!

59 minutes ago, gennataos said:

The I3 RZ-2 is 34. I'll accept that for the I3 and 35 for the I4. Ship it!

Honestly, I'd be happy even if the I4 bugs were the same cost as I3 RZ2s.

I'll concede the shields, dial, and full front arc as payment for lack of initiative.

Beyond that, double talents at I4 are unique to the bugs, and deserve some special consideration in balancing.

Okay... @GreenDragoon, let's break this down for people.

Current iteration of 5A: are they toe to toe with SpamTex, or is this clearly not a match?

I respect that FFG is willing, intentionally or accidentally, to challenge the meta with this question.

Let's answer it.

If current 5A, with named pilots and the options at I5, can't beat the I4 swarm, what are the issues here?

Part #2

Non traditional 5A (Verminators)

Is this a viable 5A starting counter to SpamTex?

@GreenDragoon @gennataos

_____

Verminators

(43) L'ulo L'ampar [RZ-2 A-wing]
(1) Heroic
Points: 44

(41) Zizi Tlo [RZ-2 A-wing]
(1) Heroic
Points: 42

(36) Tallissan Lintra [RZ-2 A-wing]
(1) Heroic
Points: 37

(36) Greer Sonnel [RZ-2 A-wing]
(1) Heroic
Points: 37

(32) Blue Squadron Recruit [RZ-2 A-wing]
(1) Heroic
Points: 33

Total points: 193

8 minutes ago, Bucknife said:

Part #2

Non traditional 5A (Verminators)

Is this a viable 5A starting counter to SpamTex?

@GreenDragoon @gennataos

_____

Verminators

(43) L'ulo L'ampar [RZ-2 A-wing]
(1) Heroic
Points: 44

(41) Zizi Tlo [RZ-2 A-wing]
(1) Heroic
Points: 42

(36) Tallissan Lintra [RZ-2 A-wing]
(1) Heroic
Points: 37

(36) Greer Sonnel [RZ-2 A-wing]
(1) Heroic
Points: 37

(32) Blue Squadron Recruit [RZ-2 A-wing]
(1) Heroic
Points: 33

Total points: 193

As a fan of the tech slot, a missing Advanced Optics is peculiar to me. Yes, I5 3 reds Lulo is neat, but what about another green and 3 advances optics?

15 minutes ago, Hoarder of Garlic Bread said:

As a fan of the tech slot, a missing Advanced Optics is peculiar to me. Yes, I5 3 reds Lulo is neat, but what about another green and 3 advances optics?

The assumption here is that the I5s/abilities are more valuable in this matchup than Optics.

Actual loadouts are subjective, but I feel pretty confident on the lineup as a starting point. That new pilot at I2 could have a decent argument as well.

1 hour ago, Bucknife said:

Part #2

Non traditional 5A (Verminators)

Is this a viable 5A starting counter to SpamTex?

@GreenDragoon @gennataos

_____

Verminators

(43) L'ulo L'ampar [RZ-2 A-wing]
(1) Heroic
Points: 44

(41) Zizi Tlo [RZ-2 A-wing]
(1) Heroic
Points: 42

(36) Tallissan Lintra [RZ-2 A-wing]
(1) Heroic
Points: 37

(36) Greer Sonnel [RZ-2 A-wing]
(1) Heroic
Points: 37

(32) Blue Squadron Recruit [RZ-2 A-wing]
(1) Heroic
Points: 33

Total points: 193

Starting point, kind of? I wouldn't bring 5A to an event. I'd trade three a-wings for Rey, add optics and prockets to taste, punch bugs off mat.

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