1 hour ago, Amaimon said:Dengar + Expertise + Maul + Counter-Measures + Punishing One
This confuses me. If he re-rolls, doesn't he turn off Expertise? So ... isn't the utility of re-rolls a pretty small percentage of attacks?
Carolina Krayts is the best X-Wing podcast
1 hour ago, catachanninja said:So what you're saying is, they weren't even good enough to win with ego.
By definition, most people who have run Fenn/Ghost, Ego, FSR, Dengaroo, PalpAces, etc, have not won major tournaments.
My god, what a depressing state to be in, to run the boogie man of the meta, and not make a cut. It happens all the time.
Just now, Jeff Wilder said:This confuses me. If he re-rolls, doesn't he turn off Expertise? So ... isn't the utility of re-rolls a pretty small percentage of attacks?
Yeah, I had the same thought.
1 minute ago, Jeff Wilder said:This confuses me. If he re-rolls, doesn't he turn off Expertise? So ... isn't the utility of re-rolls a pretty small percentage of attacks?
I guess it functions a lot like R4 Agromech and you change your focuses first and then reroll? Having flown a lot of R4 Agro, it's still really good and what else were you going to do for crew on Dengar?
Well, 4-LOM denies a token (Ghost would usually have evade) and frees up 2 points. K-4 is better for the same cost against non-Mauler Ghosts. Maul just seems like a noticeably suboptimal choice.
12 minutes ago, Biophysical said:My god, what a depressing state to be in, to run the boogie man of the meta, and not make a cut. It happens all the time.
It probably really is. At our regional last year, only 4 people out of nearly 70 brought Paratanni. Two made the cut (and the final match), two barely missed it. The two that missed it were 4-2 with MoV just not high enough to make it, while the other two were 5-1 because of that lone Raclo player with Carnor. Then again, that mirror match was at least fun, which I'm thankful for since I had to do it 3 times that day.
The worst part is they got the same stares, comments, and general shade thrown their way whether they made the cut or not.
Edited by drjkel4 minutes ago, drjkel said:The worst part is they got the same stares, comments, and general shade thrown their way whether they made the cut or not.
Interesting. I personally have zero problem throwing shade at somebody for flying the OP New Hotness, but (in my limited defense), it's almost solely based on whether the New Hotness is complete garbage to play against for most players. (The remainder is based, frankly, on how much the player in question flies nothing but the New Hotness.) How hard it is to beat doesn't really factor into it ... except of course to that extent that New Hotness is New Hotness because it's perceived as strong.
I never lost to quad-TLT, but it was worthy of an eye-roll. I went 21-2 against Palp-Aces, but it was fine to play against, so no worries. Dengaroo? Shade. Nymranda (B0rken version)? Definite shade. Paratanni? Not so much. I probably lost to it slightly more than I won, but at least it felt like I was playing X-Wing in those games.
13 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:Interesting. I personally have zero problem throwing shade at somebody for flying the OP New Hotness, but (in my limited defense), it's almost solely based on whether the New Hotness is complete garbage to play against for most players. (The remainder is based, frankly, on how much the player in question flies nothing but the New Hotness.) How hard it is to beat doesn't really factor into it ... except of course to that extent that New Hotness is New Hotness because it's perceived as strong.
I never lost to quad-TLT, but it was worthy of an eye-roll. I went 21-2 against Palp-Aces, but it was fine to play against, so no worries. Dengaroo? Shade. Nymranda (B0rken version)? Definite shade. Paratanni? Not so much. I probably lost to it slightly more than I won, but at least it felt like I was playing X-Wing in those games.
I downright miss Paratanni. Playing against a 120 point squad, but playing X-wing, is so much more fun than hoping the person across from you 1-forwarding to victory isn't quite engaged enough to spot your strategy before it's too late.
49 minutes ago, Biophysical said:By definition, most people who have run Fenn/Ghost, Ego, FSR, Dengaroo, PalpAces, etc, have not won major tournaments.
My god, what a depressing state to be in, to run the boogie man of the meta, and not make a cut. It happens all the time.
The counterpoint here is that me, Tim, George and Paul all have had success in other metas with other lists. It's possible I missed something, but i paid a **** of a lot of attention to how the list was doing. For all the flack people give the lost as being "no skill" I did not witness any dengaroo style player disappearances where people who were successful with that list were never seen before or after again.
2 hours ago, drjkel said:Which was the actual worst NPE list ever, if there even was one?
Dengaroo was and is still the worst experience I ever had playing X-wing. I still remember when Bryan England and the Berlings debuted it at the 2016 Ohio regional (my first ever regional!). Nobody was prepared for what that list could do. Pre nerf Nym was a close second. Ghost/Fenn isn't nearly as bad as those but it still has the same foundations that made those lists suck to play against (agency theft, EZ mode piloting, etc). I think the latter is the most damning thing about it. How easy it is to fly compared to how easy it is to do well with it.
Edited by defkhan12 hours ago, drjkel said:One day, we should have a poll about all the "horrible" lists that have come and gone, to see if opinions change once they're replaced by the new meta-monster (or nerfed into oblivion). When a list is dominant they're "THE WORST LIST EVAR!!!" but how does the past really rate with the present?
Which was the actual worst NPE list ever, if there even was one?
My main worry is that the cleanest way to nerf this one is to make engine upgrade small ship only, and that nerfs so many other things...
The worst NPE list ever probably was fat han back when big ships didn't provide half point and also 75 minutes wasn't yet the standard time for a tournament game.
Palpaces were a close second to me: people complained about Biggs wihtout realizing that the Palpamobile was a better biggs who also provided a global bonus to the squad for just 3 points more than the mustache.
Parattanni was the strongest list ever, with release Jumpmasters and Miranda Trajectory Simulator Nym as close follow up.
Manaroo was the single worst conceived card ever, with x7 and Palpatine almost there too
Bryan took it out to a Vassal 150pts tournament first. I witnessed the pumped up version and it was a clear indicator of what was to come. I bought a 2nd jump with store credit to try it. I only flew it for 5 games, since new (to me) is more important than good for me.
12 minutes ago, catachanninja said:The counterpoint here is that me, Tim, George and Paul all have had success in other metas with other lists. It's possible I missed something, but i paid a **** of a lot of attention to how the list was doing. For all the flack people give the lost as being "no skill" I did not witness any dengaroo style player disappearances where people who were successful with that list were never seen before or after again.
Please understand that I don't intend to imply everyone who ever runs a power list is a braindead mouthbreather. I know that a ton of very good players pick those lists up and generally play in finals against other very good players who also play the power lists. It's also hard to deny, however, that the number of correct decisions required to win a System Open was almost certainly much higher for Joel Killingsworth than someone running any of the Fenn/Ghost variants.
45 minutes ago, Biophysical said:Please understand that I don't intend to imply everyone who ever runs a power list is a braindead mouthbreather. I know that a ton of very good players pick those lists up and generally play in finals against other very good players who also play the power lists. It's also hard to deny, however, that the number of correct decisions required to win a System Open was almost certainly much higher for Joel Killingsworth than someone running any of the Fenn/Ghost variants.
I'm not arguing that there aren't brain dead lists, there absolutely are, ghost fenn is certainly one of them.
Man though, I am so damned pissed at this stupid game right now, I'm constantly ready to go off.
1 hour ago, Biophysical said:Please understand that I don't intend to imply everyone who ever runs a power list is a braindead mouthbreather. I know that a ton of very good players pick those lists up and generally play in finals against other very good players who also play the power lists. It's also hard to deny, however, that the number of correct decisions required to win a System Open was almost certainly much higher for Joel Killingsworth than someone running any of the Fenn/Ghost variants.
Funny thing is Joel missed the cut in Nasvhille, while running Kannan/Fenn. I ran the Lothal variant and made top 4, but I fully admit I sold out when I picked the list to fly. I had 2 practice games with it and it felt like auto piloting 99% of the time.
44 minutes ago, catachanninja said:I'm not arguing that there aren't brain dead lists, there absolutely are, ghost fenn is certainly one of them.
Man though, I am so damned pissed at this stupid game right now, I'm constantly ready to go off.
I think the worst of it is the ratio of brain dead to brain active (?) and the comparable power is a joke. Even If I play perfectly, I still am facing an uphill battle with most lists. PS10 AS Nym+Dengar isn't enough I don't think. Palp Aces are close, but they have arcs, and now the best arcdodger is apparently a PS3 big base ship with engine upgrade.
11 minutes ago, Do I need a Username said:but they have arcs, and now the best arcdodger is apparently a PS3 big base ship with engine upgrade.
It's not that surprising, the best arc dodgers have been large based turrets since about wave 3.5.
The real savior will be the end of the competitive season.
Then the fun bad fun lists will be coming out to play.
3 minutes ago, Velvetelvis said:The real savior will be the end of the competitive season.
Then the fun bad fun lists will be coming out to play.
Why wait? Long time left in the competitive season.
27 minutes ago, Velvetelvis said:The real savior will be the end of the competitive season.
Then the fun bad fun lists will be coming out to play.
What is this end of the competitive season you describe?
42 minutes ago, Velvetelvis said:The real savior will be the end of the competitive season.
Then the fun bad fun lists will be coming out to play.
I'm lucky in that there are really no tournaments in my area, and only 2 LGS places, so most everybody flies casual.
4 minutes ago, Do I need a Username said:I'm lucky in that there are really no tournaments in my area, and only 2 LGS places, so most everybody flies casual.
I played in a store kit on Saturday with no Mauler Ghosts. (There was one Nymranda that I got lucky to beat, flown by an 11-year old kid.) I was verklempt. I think maybe the Bay Area playgroup is recovering.
50 minutes ago, Velvetelvis said:Then the fun bad fun lists will be coming out to play.
Speaking of those... if I were to fly one of these, which would you recommend?
48 minutes ago, Kieransi said:Speaking of those... if I were to fly one of these, which would you recommend?
I don't know if you need the intel on the U-wings. Might devote that to sabotage!!!! New Plan:
Cassian on Dash, Wookiee commandos on both U-wings
Edited by Do I need a Username5 minutes ago, Kieransi said:Speaking of those... if I were to fly one of these, which would you recommend?
Now this is rebel list building!
If im honest though any U-Wing build that doesnt include advanced sensors and engine upgrade makes me sad.
Its just impossible to pass up the chance to run a large base tie striker with intel agent. Seriously its sneaky good.