On 8/31/2019 at 4:32 AM, GreenDragoon said:

And then all the "no you can't cloak, my dials are set" and similar crap that is just unacceptable. I compromised my own standards "because it's a continental", but it looks like there's no end on how low people are willing to go.

Man, there’s an interesting thread on ‘gotcha’ X-Wing.

at nova, people were just letting people have obvious triggers, like end of turn cloaks and Luke gunner rotations (stolen from @pheaver‘s statement of what he saw).

i dunno - if my opponent CONSISTENTLY forgets triggers, sure, I’ll get frustrated because I 'don’t want to play both lists,’ but generally, just let people do the obvious triggers. We’re all tired, maybe we have to move like 2 ships just to complete a maneuver - remind them of taking an action.

Stuff like that.

47 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:

Man, there’s an interesting thread on ‘gotcha’ X-Wing.

at nova, people were just letting people have obvious triggers, like end of turn cloaks and Luke gunner rotations (stolen from @pheaver‘s statement of what he saw).

i dunno - of my opponent CONSISTENTLY forgets triggers, sure, I’ll get frustrated because mi don’t want to play both lists,’ but generally, just let people do the obvious triggers. We’re all tired,aybe we have to move like 2 ships just to complete a maneuver - remind them of taking an action.

Stuff like that.

I've been trying to get into the habit of declaring phases as we go along. I might not remember all your triggers, but most times you'll remember if I exclaim "system phase" every turn. It helps me when I'm playing a new list with triggers I'm not used to as well.

But yeah. I'm super in on giving people things especially if the board state hasn't given them extra info. You can remember to cloak/decloak up to the first dial being revealed for all I care.

10 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

Its almost like 100% yes or no answers about the quality of individual ships that are only a part of an overall list are useless.

Should I try this next trial then?

A Rebel list in the guise of FO (bring rocks):

Petty Officer Thanisson (62)
Kylo Ren (11)

Ship total: 73 Half Points: 37 Threshold: 6

TN-3465 (29)
Ship total: 29 Half Points: 15 Threshold: 2

"Null" (31)
Ship total: 31 Half Points: 16 Threshold: 2

"Blackout" (63)
Trick Shot (4)

Ship total: 67 Half Points: 34 Threshold: 3


Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=First Order&d=v8ZhZ200Z281XWW179WWWWWY261XWY290XWY237X133WWW&sn=New Squadron&obs=

Kylo shows Dark Side, TN rolls up to block or at least be nearby, Blackout hangs back, and Null charges at target. With range one and TN alone, that I7's got a good chance of enforcing Dark Side, especially if he has focus. Panicked triggers Thannison's ability, tractoring the target into the rock. Blackout now fires his 4 dice focus + TN ability into the -2 agi defender, who even if lives through this, gets no shot thanks to the rock. Thannison throws 4 dice because he can.

Obviously, too many handshakes for Rebels, let alone FO. But I think Kylo crew may gain relevance with the mag pulse warheads and Vonreg. If that investment is made, Tavson is probably a better carrier, but hey: We could always do Tavson (with Kylo), Thannison, and Vonreg for the ultimate NPE. Also, only 1 small base, so go Fac yourself, Sun Fac!

11 hours ago, MegaSilver said:

And Thane did great for me at GenCon. While true his ability rarely triggered, I still made 2nd in Rebels Day 1b.

Being at i5 is still great, even if their ability rarely triggers.

Just yesterday at a kit tournament, watching another player's game, I saw Thane K-Turn and spend a focus to flip a Direct Hit to kill a Kylo Ren.

Kind of tangential, but seems timely.

6 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Just yesterday at a kit tournament, watching another player's game, I saw Thane K-Turn and spend a focus to flip a Direct Hit to kill a Kylo Ren.

Kind of tangential, but seems timely.

Skill play. Unrepeatable by us mere mortals

@Tlfj200 are you implying that X-Wing is not a single player video game where I am the hero and my opponent is a computer program designed to hand out krayt coin on specific intervals?

The problem with a lot of the "gotcha" X-Wing is that, in many cases, it's not a function of the player forgetting, but rather not following sequence. If you play a card in Magic, you don't just go to playing another card, you say "response?" to clarify to the other player that your action in playing the card i.e. paying costs etc, is now complete and you have passed priority. If you just bolt from one phase to another, the other person will 100% of the time call a judge on your dumb *** for trying to pressure them via speedplay.

Like, if I'm shooting a ship and they have Luminara, I always pause before modifying my defense dice and say something like "do you have anything?" (which is also why I hate any card that allows an opponent to modify your dice because it breaks game flow, but that's another issue). Juke is the exact same way, you don't have to remind your opponent they have Juke, but you are required to give them a window to use it. Denying that window is, unambiguously, cheating.

8 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

The problem with a lot of the "gotcha" X-Wing is that, in many cases, it's not a function of the player forgetting, but rather not following sequence. If you play a card in Magic, you don't just go to playing another card, you say "response?" to clarify to the other player that your action in playing the card i.e. paying costs etc, is now complete and you have passed priority. If you just bolt from one phase to another, the other person will 100% of the time call a judge on your dumb *** for trying to pressure them via speedplay.

Like, if I'm shooting a ship and they have Luminara, I always pause before modifying my defense dice and say something like "do you have anything?" (which is also why I hate any card that allows an opponent to modify your dice because it breaks game flow, but that's another issue). Juke is the exact same way, you don't have to remind your opponent they have Juke, but you are required to give them a window to use it. Denying that window is, unambiguously, cheating.

This.

Thank you.

1 hour ago, Tlfj200 said:

Can confirm, Paul runs a great (and tight) ship.

like everyone had fun.

Patrick was a big part of making the trains run on time, and dealing with X-Wing players' poor math skills. I just made a bunch of rulings and told people to pick up their pace of play.

My favorite was waffling back and forth on Jendon and ST-321 on stream. I think I finally got the right answer, but it took me a few iterations to get there.

On 9/1/2019 at 4:59 PM, skotothalamos said:

Soontir text does not say "may." Both players are responsible for mandatory triggers.

I'm getting sick of missed opportunity "gotcha" X-Wing.

If that was the most important take-away of it all then I failed again. Anyway, I'm too tired of it all to even argue or clarify.

1 hour ago, pheaver said:

Patrick was a big part of making the trains run on time, and dealing with X-Wing players' poor math skills. I just made a bunch of rulings and told people to pick up their pace of play.

My favorite was waffling back and forth on Jendon and ST-321 on stream. I think I finally got the right answer, but it took me a few iterations to get there.

What did you end up ruling? I would say it doesn’t work because it contradicts the 0-3 restriction on the title.

On 9/1/2019 at 2:44 PM, Hiemfire said:

Should I have added /sarc at the end??? I may be misreading/reading too much in, but you and I agree that Blackout is really good.

On another note, nothing from the Aussies in ListFortress??? Did Europe actually posting lists for once spook them?

They're coming - it takes a very long time to get through all the lists. Tim has a bit more of a life than I do :p

On 9/1/2019 at 11:44 AM, jagsba said:

Looks at Duncan's list.

13 hours ago, jagsba said:

I brought up that Chris quote to make fun of him and y'all out here with nuanced takes

it's ok, duncan can be a moron too

This last weekend confirms, for me, an ongoing suspicion since 2.0 launched that no one has any real clue what is 100% good or 100% bad. Like, if someone tells me something is bad, I'm just going to look at them askance and ask them how they know. The only answer I'd trust is them saying they or something else whom I trust has tried it themselves, several times, and it doesn't work. If they dare to mention "on paper" or "headsim", they get 50 DKP minus.

Nova! (Note: I used "top 16 each day" instead of top cut, to produce a more apples:apples comparison with the other extended events)

Extended!

Hyperspace!

@GreenDragoon

46 minutes ago, svelok said:

Nova! (Note: I used "top 16 each day" instead of top cut, to produce a more apples:apples comparison with the other extended events)

Extended!

Hyperspace!

Awesome - thanks. My data crunching stuff is currently all being rewritten - do you have the ability to quickly get what games went to time by faction?

11 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

If that was the most important take-away of it all then I failed again. Anyway, I'm too tired of it all to even argue or clarify.

Sorry, to be clear, that whole day sounds like a bunch of no-fun x-wing. I was only bringing that up as I felt it was the one (and only!) place where I thought your opponent was correct.

11 hours ago, pheaver said:

My favorite was waffling back and forth on Jendon and ST-321 on stream. I think I finally got the right answer, but it took me a few iterations to get there.

I think the answer is that ST-321 ignores range restrictions and Jendon’s text is a range restriction so it’s ignored?

4 hours ago, Brunas said:

Awesome - thanks. My data crunching stuff is currently all being rewritten - do you have the ability to quickly get what games went to time by faction?

This got me thinking. I played 1.0 until TLT showed up and then returned when 2.0. I can't remember a time when Empire wasn't a top faction. Even in 2.0 after two straight nerfs, they are still a top2 faction. Everything else rises and falls but the Empire remains constant.

I'm pretty sure if we combine all the data on Metawing from when they were released to today Soontir, Whisper and Vader would be the top 3 ships.

5 hours ago, gennataos said:

This last weekend confirms, for me, an ongoing suspicion since 2.0 launched that no one has any real clue what is 100% good or 100% bad. Like, if someone tells me something is bad, I'm just going to look at them askance and ask them how they know. The only answer I'd trust is them saying they or something else whom I trust has tried it themselves, several times, and it doesn't work. If they dare to mention "on paper" or "headsim", they get 50 DKP minus.

X-wings (both kinds are good). Obviously the T-65 depends more on it's pilots, but the T-70 is a generally strong ship, and I'd hesitate to say any of the pilots (except maybe tubs) are bad, at most mediocore but I don't think that applies to any of them either (not enough experience with some of them too say for sure though). It's a space superiority fighter that isn't priced like an E-wing.

Did you guys like the nova open format? iirc it was the only tournament so far to do 6 rounds of Swiss on 2 days with such a large top cut.

was it better, worse or you didn't notice particular differences from the usual formats?

As a complete outsider, I find the chance to go 0-3, win the following 3 "easier" games to make the cut and potentially win the whole event quite unsettling... But I didn't attend so I'm probably missing something

3 hours ago, Sunitsa said:

Did you guys like the nova open format? iirc it was the only tournament so far to do 6 rounds of Swiss on 2 days with such a large top cut.

was it better, worse or you didn't notice particular differences from the usual formats?

As a complete outsider, I find the chance to go 0-3, win the following 3 "easier" games to make the cut and potentially win the whole event quite unsettling... But I didn't attend so I'm probably missing something

Cut too big

3 hours ago, Sunitsa said:

Did you guys like the nova open format? iirc it was the only tournament so far to do 6 rounds of Swiss on 2 days with such a large top cut.

was it better, worse or you didn't notice particular differences from the usual formats?

As a complete outsider, I find the chance to go 0-3, win the following 3 "easier" games to make the cut and potentially win the whole event quite unsettling... But I didn't attend so I'm probably missing something

I’m not a fan of 3-3 getting in the cut. It doesn’t feel earned, feels more like “cute trick” lists can get in the cut and favorably matchup their way higher than seems to make sense. Also, it encourages MOV hoarding on most tables, which I loath.

I’m not sure why they didn’t just have a top 32. There’s no prizing for top 64, or even top 32. Weird. /shrug

3 hours ago, Sunitsa said:

Did you guys like the nova open format? iirc it was the only tournament so far to do 6 rounds of Swiss on 2 days with such a large top cut.

was it better, worse or you didn't notice particular differences from the usual formats?

As a complete outsider, I find the chance to go 0-3, win the following 3 "easier" games to make the cut and potentially win the whole event quite unsettling... But I didn't attend so I'm probably missing something

So, the event is definitely fun, and having two swiss days means we probably get more people, in total, than we otherwise would (plus, they cant get enough space at the event to run a full 200+ swiss in one day).

As for the top 64 specifically... no, many people gripe about it. It's not like it ruins the event, but it's basically just go 4-2, dont care. No byes for being undefeated, no rewards for less than 2 losses.

It was more of a quirk 3-3's made it, because we had the more unusual "made sunday, but imma drop anyway" scenario come up a handful of times, but it is what it is.

Like, I was 4-1 going into last round, saw yet another 8-ship CIS swarm, literally said "NOPE", and conceded. My opponent was confused, but I just didn't feel the *possibility* of a damage deck and/or range rulers was worth another grueling swarm match after I had already done 3 (not including the torkil + 3 i3 starvipers).

31 minutes ago, Kaptin Krunch said:

Cut too big

28 minutes ago, gennataos said:

I’m not a fan of 3-3 getting in the cut. It doesn’t feel earned, feels more like “cute trick” lists can get in the cut and favorably matchup their way higher than seems to make sense. Also, it encourages MOV hoarding on most tables, which I loath.

I’m not sure why they didn’t just have a top 32. There’s no prizing for top 64, or even top 32. Weird. /shrug

I don't have that full answer, but partially because they announced it was top 32 per day like in February, and given the last two years, 4-2 was basically exactly correct for the cut. It was even exactly correct for the cut *this* time, but we had more-than-usual amounts of drops from top 32.

TL;DR - The actual games were quite fun, and the even was quite fun, and 3-3 was invited because of drops. Separately, NOVA has always had basically has +1 swiss rounds that what are needed, but you guys only notice now because of drops.

Ah, makes more sense, then.