Seriously though, if SuperInqs get suddenly kerplunked, I'll be extremely miffed.

Things are still very much in flux and will remain so for at least a little while. I remain fairly convinced that it is all OK right now.

The game is fine but the Force is the easy mode. You always have mods and some pilots have free actions too.

I think some Force users are too cheap.

Actually we don't need a rules change, only a point adjustment.

45 minutes ago, Do I need a Username said:

Still not a doubling/tripling in price. Its a nerf, but not a nuke from orbit.

you could argue for Trajectory simulator, but its cost was so low to begin with that's not really fair.

Member when they nuked trickshot by doubling the cost to 2 points?

58 minutes ago, 5050Saint said:

Inertial Dampeners was jacked up in price despite only being good on one pilot on one ship. And that ship cannot even take that upgrade now. So everyone else is now paying a premium for ID as collateral damage.

Still think that I1 Z95s should be able to pay 1 point for that upgrade (they already have a 1 pt tax just for the illicit slot...)

10 minutes ago, jagsba said:

Member when they nuked trickshot by doubling the cost to 2 points?

Four points?

Or are we on the second nuke for that card?

2 hours ago, LagJanson said:

This is not going to go the way you think

45 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:

Seriously though, if SuperInqs get suddenly kerplunked, I'll be extremely miffed.

Things are still very much in flux and will remain so for at least a little while. I remain fairly convinced that it is all OK right now.

Agreed.

Small changes.

...until we get to quad phantoms levels of domination, I don't think there's any need to knee-jerk on Inqy.

But Jendon, though.

1 hour ago, Do I need a Username said:

Still not a doubling/tripling in price. Its a nerf, but not a nuke from orbit.

When I (personally speaking) say "nuke from orbit," I mean "no longer viable in competitive lists."

By my metric, SNR has perhaps not been nuked from orbit, because maybe people are still making it work on Kylo?

Tactical Officer has been nuked from orbit, however, even though it only went up to 6 points. It was made competitively non-viable because it was seen in the same vicinity as Rebel Beef on a few occasions. And Inertial Dampeners has already been pointed out. There are other examples.

I honestly can't figure out if FFG is bad at trying to determine which cards in a list are the problem ... or if they just don't care, as long as the list goes away (and when it carries non-offending cards with it, too bad). I can make pretty good arguments for both. (So maybe it is both!)

9 minutes ago, Bucknife said:

Still think that I1 Z95s should be able to pay 1 point for that upgrade (they already have a 1 pt tax just for the illicit slot...)

Z-95s (and Scum in general) shouldn't be taxed for that slot, they hardly use it.

35 minutes ago, Bucknife said:

Agreed.

Small changes.

...until we get to quad phantoms levels of domination, I don't think there's any need to knee-jerk on Inqy.

But Jendon, though.

Do you mean the first or second time quad phantoms dominated

47 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

Tactical Officer has been nuked from orbit, however, even though it only went up to 6 points. It was made competitively non-viable because it was seen in the same vicinity as Rebel Beef on a few occasions. And Inertial Dampeners has already been pointed out. There are other examples.

Ah, tactical officer is a good example. It is basically nuked from orbit, though I'm happy they did. Not for power level, but it basically meant that all ships with red coordinate actually had white coordinate. Now the difference between the two is bigger, which is good (in my book). I agree it definitely wasn't the source of any power lists basically ever, though.

Similarly, I'd rather squad leader/debris gambit/squad leader/targeting computer all just not exist, because they make the game more boring.

59 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

When I (personally speaking) say "nuke from orbit," I mean "no longer viable in competitive lists."

By my metric, SNR has perhaps not been nuked from orbit, because maybe people are still making it work on Kylo?

Tactical Officer has been nuked from orbit, however, even though it only went up to 6 points. It was made competitively non-viable because it was seen in the same vicinity as Rebel Beef on a few occasions. And Inertial Dampeners has already been pointed out. There are other examples.

I honestly can't figure out if FFG is bad at trying to determine which cards in a list are the problem ... or if they just don't care, as long as the list goes away (and when it carries non-offending cards with it, too bad). I can make pretty good arguments for both. (So maybe it is both!)

I'm not sure if ffg is bad, but players definitely are, ffg to some extent, likely wants to appease players, regardless of how wrong they likely are.

4 minutes ago, catachanninja said:

I'm not sure if ffg is bad, but players definitely are, ffg to some extent, likely wants to appease players, regardless of how wrong they likely are.

The boring answer is I think you're right, sprinkled in with some extras - I'm sure there's stuff we're wrong about and FFG is right about, and the other way around, and I'm sure there's stuff FFG does they know makes things "less balanced" but appease the players because we're morons.

2 minutes ago, Brunas said:

The boring answer is I think you're right, sprinkled in with some extras - I'm sure there's stuff we're wrong about and FFG is right about, and the other way around, and I'm sure there's stuff FFG does they know makes things "less balanced" but appease the players because we're morons.

are you implying that no party in the equation is infallible or should be held to that standard? That's pretty bold in 2019

1 hour ago, Brunas said:

Similarly, I'd rather squad leader/debris gambit/squad leader/targeting computer all just not exist, because they make the game more boring.

100% agree

Ships should be different. Every ship does not need a target lock. Meh.

5 hours ago, Do I need a Username said:

Still not a doubling/tripling in price. Its a nerf, but not a nuke from orbit.

Inertial Dampeners went from 2 to 7 points. It over tripled in price. Now no one will take it.

5 hours ago, Bucknife said:

But Jendon, though.

Jendon is the type of ship that should be in the game. It contributes to diversity of ships on the table because it makes otherwise under-powered ships usable and viable.

8 hours ago, catachanninja said:

I'm not sure if ffg is bad, but players definitely are, ffg to some extent, likely wants to appease players, regardless of how wrong they likely are.

Less controversial way of putting it, I think it's unknown who FFG is balancing for. Competitive players who practice with their lists a lot are going to be a lot different than average (i.e. normal, not talking about skill) players who play their list a couple times, who are also going to be a lot different than casual players who try lots of new lists and don't really care about winning.

I hesitate to use the words "high skill" or "low skill" to describe cards because it's simplistic to the point of being basically wrong. However, there's definitely lots of cards that are significantly better in the hands of a well-practiced competitive player that aren't a problem casually.

An example, a lot of the stuff we complain about (regen, reposition, etc) is a lot less of a problem in the hands of people who haven't practiced running to time with it and wouldn't want to do that anyway.

So yeah. If FFG is balancing for really casual players, there might be things that seem weird to us. And vice versa.

21 hours ago, Brunas said:

Similarly, I'd rather squad leader/debris gambit/squad leader/targeting computer all just not exist, because they make the game more boring.

1st squad leader is fine, but second squad leader is very NPE and should be banned

31 minutes ago, skotothalamos said:

1st squad leader is fine, but second squad leader is very NPE and should be banned

I'm a moron

13 hours ago, Kieransi said:

So yeah. If FFG is balancing for really casual players, there might be things that seem weird to us. And vice versa.

FFG is demonstrably not balancing for casual players. Just looking at the pattern of points adjustments, elements that are overused in the competitive environment have the highest chance of getting nerfed, while elements that are underused have the highest chance of getting buffed.

In general, nobody ever balances for casual play because casual play is it's own animal. Casual players take whatever looks cool and might try to tie it together with some better elements, but casual play is rarely affected by overall balance unless that balance is substantially off on the competitive level...and even then they'll just call the list cheesy and be a ***** about playing against it, so meh.

29 minutes ago, Brunas said:

I'm a moron

I agree

23 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

FFG is demonstrably not balancing for casual players. Just looking at the pattern of points adjustments, elements that are overused in the competitive environment have the highest chance of getting nerfed, while elements that are underused have the highest chance of getting buffed.

I'd agree they're not balancing for kitchen table players, they're obviously using tournament representation and results in what they target. I think the casual vs competitive question is more what are they trying to maximize the balance for Wednesday night at the store, round 1 of swiss, or the cut?

6 minutes ago, Makaze said:

I'd agree they're not balancing for kitchen table players, they're obviously using tournament representation and results in what they target. I think the casual vs competitive question is more what are they trying to maximize the balance for Wednesday night at the store, round 1 of swiss, or the cut?

I’m sure they don’t differentiate, but it feels like the bigger the change the more it is targeted at the Wednesday night, and the smaller the change the more it is targeted at cut.

Wednesday night games can be 190-210 and still feel fair-ish, so tweaks don’t impact them. Dormitz-size changes do.

Cut games can be decided by a single extra point of bid sometimes.

19 hours ago, RunnerAZ said:

Jendon is the type of ship that should be in the game. It contributes to diversity of ships on the table because it makes otherwise under-powered ships usable and viable.

I actually totally agree!!

But I personally also get kinda annoyed when I see the "Soontir effect": a single competitive representative dominating an entire chassis.

...

Soontir, Kylo, Tavson, Jendon... it gets old.

Lulo retired from that title, and now he shows up on purpose instead of automatically.

DISCLAIMER:

I'm not an Empire player, I'm a Resistance guy.

I'm really curious to hear any other input about Lambda/Jendon pricing from anyone who knows the faction synergies better!